Sand cat hybrids

Bengal, Savannah, and Chausie, all Hybrids of domestic cats with exotic/wild cat species

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Stripes
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Sand cat hybrids

Postby Stripes » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:21 pm

Hi all, I posted on the sand cat thread a few months ago, I now have him and he has settled in really well.
Me and my partner have been talking about the idea of trying to breed a hybrid between him and one of our domestic females. We have a lovely pedigree british short hair, she is cream (so smilar colouring to him) and has had one litter previously. She proved to be a fantastic mother and it was an easy birth of 2 chunky kittens, so we think she would make a good candidate for the first attempt. She is around 2 years old and was good with the stud last time she was mated. Our sand cat is fine with other cats, infact he is very friendly with our bengal female.
I have experience breeding cats, but only domestic cat breeds (british shorthairs and cornish rex). I was wondering if anybody on here could give me any idea what it is like raising a litter of F1 kittens?
We have tried doing some research online but get a lot of mixed advice, and obviously they will be quite different to the savannahs etc people write about. Me and my partner dont want to attempt this unless we are fully prepared and know as much as possible. If it went well I may even breed more in the future, if not then any kittens would remain with us.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

PS here is a link to a blurry picture of my sandcat on his blanket :) (file was too big to upload onto here)

http://tinypic.com/r/xdfhph/5
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Lasergrl
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Lasergrl » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:30 pm

Hi there. The kittens will be very domestic. They should be born the same gestation as a domestic so no prematurity issues. You likely won't have to bottlefeed either.
Singapuras are an ideal cross if you can locate one. They are genetically closer to sand at color. Cream is actually a poor choice as it is a rescessive dilute of red. You will end up with red tabby male kittens and torbie females. No harm if you already have her and just want to see if he can get the job done. I think the Bengal would be better truly. Bengals are better at raising hybrid kittens and they don't generally have any rescessives.
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Stripes » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:09 pm

Hi Lasergrl,
Thanks for the advice, in my bsh's papers all but one of her relatives are cream, and her last litter were both creams (a male and a female). So i just assumed! oops.
We thought she might find it easier to handle than our bengal would, as our bengal has never had a litter and she is very very slight compared to the sand cat. He has a very large head and I really dont want any birthing problems! He does love our bengal, he's forever "honking" when she isnt in his room and has shown a LOT of interest in her, so I dont think there would be any problems with convincing him to do the deed.
I like singapura's but finding one is very difficult. Could you think of any other breeds that would be a good cross?
Also what do you think would be the best diet for the kittens and weaning them? It's a little confusing as obviously trevor eats frozen mice/rats/chicks and my domestics just have high end cat food.

Thanks again
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Lasergrl
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Lasergrl » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:42 pm

Don't worry about his head size. Its most just fur and ears. Sandcats are born quite tiny. Also domestics have no trouble passing half caracal kittens and that is quite the size difference. Other choices would be if you like British short air, look for a golden chinchilla or a chinchilla in a pinch. You could even create a cross for this, with Abby and British. If you use tabby gene it will likely dominate the kittens coat, that's why ticked or chinchilla type cat would work well to create that very minimal stripe pattern of the sand cat. A golden chinchilla would be ideal because it would keep the creamy base color.
The kittens will eat what mom eats so hi end catfood would be fine with supplemental raw.
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Whatsername
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Whatsername » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:48 pm

My advice would be to still try for the singapura. Like Lasergrl said, you can do the BSH as a trial, or your bengal for that matter, but if you're planning on developing a new cross breed with your sand cat, I would put the extra effort forth and get the singapura. Another good thing about singapuras is that they tend to be a little smaller, as I believe sand cats are too, no?
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Stripes » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:21 pm

Thanks Lasergrl,
I like the golden chinchilla's, just had a look and only found 2 advertised, both a bit far away but will definitely look into getting one as the coat colour is lovely. Another thing I was concerned about with the BSH (and would be with chinchillas) was that they have quite flat faces and was wondering if the kittens would lose the cute pixie shaped face of the sand cat.
Thanks for the advice with feeding the kittens, I wasnt sure if they would require a completely raw food diet.

Just managed to get another picture of him that is less blurry and where you can see him better.

http://i43.tinypic.com/1182hs3.jpg
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Stripes » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:30 pm

Whatsername wrote:My advice would be to still try for the singapura. Like Lasergrl said, you can do the BSH as a trial, or your bengal for that matter, but if you're planning on developing a new cross breed with your sand cat, I would put the extra effort forth and get the singapura. Another good thing about singapuras is that they tend to be a little smaller, as I believe sand cats are too, no?


Hi there, I'm not sure about developing a new cross, that's a long way off! I am however interested in breeding him to get a "sand cat like" domestic cat. I would like to get a singapura but i've had a quick search and cant seem to find any. I'm in england and they arnt popular over here, so would take some real digging.
And yes he isnt a huge cat but i would actually say he is bigger than a domestic ( I read that they were smaller aswell). He is probably a similar size to a large domestic, but he is a fair bit chunkier, with much stockier legs and a large head. I'll have to try and get a picture of him with my bengal for comparison.

Thanks
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Lasergrl » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:44 pm

Yup you will lose the face with the British but it has the Cobb body. Singapuras are ideal for producing margarita cat since other then the fur being short and more ticked coat they are quite similar. Face wise that is.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo= ... twfE3KmyDQ

Actually the British shorthairs look pretty sand at like. Just choose one with less muzzle. I Google imaged them and there is a kitten pictured that looks remarkably like a sand at kitten.
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Stripes » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:26 pm

I've been on the hunt for a female this colour for a few months, sadly I have only come across one and she was spayed. I have found a few kittens this colour but I would much rather get an adult female than raise a kitten. I dont mind spending to get the right cat, but she would have to be perfect.
Perhaps if, as suggested, i do a test litter with one or both of my females, and see the results then if a cat that was more suitable became available, purchase it. I'd be interested to see the outcome from my own cats anyway.
Unsure if there would be a market for the kittens from the bengal and cream BSH, and if i was not able to keep them all, i dont want to breed a couple of litters of kittens that look like unusual moggies and i would struggle to find homes for... especially as they would have different care requirements to a domestic cat.

Still looking for singapuras and can't find anything!
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Lasergrl » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:40 pm

Well you can't really lose with the Bengal cross. It is a marketable cross trust me. The British kittens may be the more difficult. Just depends on how many inherit the red gene. Half of them should be brown tabby gene.
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby kermisracer » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:48 pm

Would a stockier-bodied Aby or f/4-f/5 chausie be a good match? Similar size and no red gene to worry about, right?
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Stripes » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:42 pm

Hi Lasergrl, thank for the reply, would you recommend we even bother with my BSH then? Maybe in the future we could consider it depending on how things go with our bengal. Do you think they would retain much of the sand cat's looks, if any? I'm not sure what the dominant genetics are, and which traits would be more likely to come through in the kittens. I suppose it will just have to be a case of wait and see, as there are currently no sand cat hybrids out there yet (to my knowledge).

Hey Kermisracer, we did actually consider an Abyssinian, she was absolutely perfect but had sold by the time we contacted the owner! :( Not too sure about a chausie, they are very highly priced in the U.K IF you can find one. Also there are a lot of sellers/scammers selling kittens as these exotic hybrids that are actually something else entirely or the kitten doesn't even exist.. one reason we are concerned about selling our kittens is that if we advertised online, a lot of people would probably assume it was a scam.
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Lasergrl » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:39 pm

Well its up to you regarding the British. Your right the Bengal will be a gamble but the kittens will be exotic no matter what. I'm fairy sure the sandcat traits will be easily lost as they are a more subtle looking breed. I would try them both myself to see what happens. I would continue to look for singapura and golden British kitten or adult. They can breed at a year so by the time he figures out what to do she will be ready. I would personally try and stay with smaller queens. That's part of the sandcat charm is the smaller size.
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Elina » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:10 pm

I just had a quick look and found these: http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/pets4homes/ ... 4200812AA6

Singapura X Asian(Burmese) and only £325.

I have no idea if Burmese would be a help or a hindrance here but these are the only Singapura I have found.
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Re: Sand cat hybrids

Postby Whatsername » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:16 pm

Burmese will always help. <3 They are the best! Actually I don't know... But are they really called Asian in Europe?

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