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Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Tell us a little about yourself, pets or whatever.

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EmilyGrace
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Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby EmilyGrace » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:11 pm

Hello everyone!
My name is Emily and I am a fox lover in Oregon. I love all foxes but am especially fascinated by the red fox. I have so many questions to ask you guys! Firstly, I know foxes and virtually all exotic pets are illegal to own in Oregon due to SB 391 which was passed in 2009. This seems ludicrous to me. Foxes are not dangerous, and in the hands of a knowledgeable owner would make a wonderful companion (the awesome fox owners on this site have shown me that.) Does anyone know why this legislation was passed, and if it has been successfully challenged at any point?
Or can the state or local government ever be persuaded to make an exception?
I would love to hear your stories and input on this.
I say all this not because I intend to get a fox anytime soon. I am realistic about this. I am a college student and do not have the time or resources to give a fox the life that he/she deserves. I also know that foxes are not like dogs, or any other pet I have owned before, and I am continuously doing research to understand their needs and behavior. But, I would like nothing better than to be able to give a kit a loving home someday.
Thank you,
Emily Grace.
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Ash
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby Ash » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:54 pm

Hi, and welcome to the forum, Emily. :)

TamanduaGirl is from Oregon and is very well-versed in its laws. She should be able to give you a clearer idea maybe why the law was passed and if it's been challenged. Maybe she'll chime in here.

Do you currently own any pets? What are you studying?
3 red fox, 4 iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, tarantula
EmilyGrace
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby EmilyGrace » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:34 pm

Hi, Ash.
And thank you, I look forward to hearing TamanduaGirl's and anyone else's input on this. I am a freshman at Portland State University, and am currently a biology major. I own 2 cats, Blackcat and Fluffycat (very creative names, I know), both boys.

Personal story:I first became interested in foxes when my boyfriend was away on a long trip, and I started drawing a lot to keep myself occupied and from feeling lonely. For reasons beyond my comprehension, I drew foxes of all kinds over and over again. I'd never realized how beautiful they were, how special, how much i identified with their nature.

Now I can't get enough. I'm really sad because there aren't many wild foxes here in Oregon (at least not where I live, though I hear there's a lot of gray fox in eastern Oregon, but red fox sitings are rare). Furthermore, i haven't heard of any fox owners, and there are no nearby wildlife sanctuaries to volunteer at, so there's essentially no opportunity for me to have contact with foxes. So my current dream job is either to work at an animal sanctuary/rehabilitation center or to work as a field biologist studying the endangered Sierra Nevada red fox in California.

Sorry for the rant, and thank you for being so welcoming!
I can't wait to hear about possible opportunities and see other people's experiences with all these wonderful creatures.

Thanks,
EmilyGrace
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:57 pm

The reason the law was passed? Public hysteria fueled by the media and animal rights groups. We had a nice permit law for exotics but alligators and crocodiles were not on it. So they came along and started outright lying saying we had no exotic laws and others claimed they were just adding crocs to the exotic law but instead they added crocs and changed it to no longer give pet permits.

That said you can still easily have an exotic fox(nothing native to the state like reds, swifts/kits, or grays). Because the exotic law specifically exempts anyone with a USDA. So if you get USDA to do educational shows with the fox then you can have the fox.

Now the trick is getting USDA without the fox because they want to see your animals to be sure they are cared for right but technically you should be able to get the USDA even without the fox there yet. You can get it for showing your domestic pets or other not banned exotics.

As for other exotics it's much more complex that you think. The "exotic" law only covers canines, felines, bears, primates and crocs/gators.

The rest exotic(non-natives) are on a list of domestic, non-regulated, regulated, and prohibited. If something is not listed there it is treated as prohibited. Foxes would be prohibited but the exotic law has always over ruled it in the past and they let people who got the exotic pet permit get fennecs so the same "should" still be true but I don't know of anyone who tried to get an exotic fox with a USDA since then. Well actually my friend has fennecs but even though she got them after the ban she already had the Oregon exotic pet permit(anyone who already had it can keep it, just no new ones), as well as being USDA and a number of other things. Anyway in theory all exotic foxes like fennecs are still legal, just not as pets only.

A member here and friend is currently trying to figure out some sticky points in the law in regards to natives. He will be seeing the wildlife board later this year. The law states you need 10 or more foxes to get a fur farm permit for native fox. It says you need the fur farm permit to take and posses native fur bearers. The sticky point is it says "and" not "or" so you can not capture AND keep a native fox but it does not say you can't capture OR keep a native fox. So again technically it means you should be able to keep a native if not captured from the wild but I think it has always been enforced the other way(no native foxes no matter where acquired).

So yeah actually the fox issue is clear as mud at the moment.

I've seen a wild red fox (between Eugene and Salem I think) and a wild gray(local cascades foothills) fox in Oregon :)

PS you can meet fennec foxes at the conservation center not too far from you. http://www.chasing-tail.com/
EmilyGrace
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby EmilyGrace » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:50 pm

@TamanduaGirl
Thank you, i had no idea that the law didn't apply to exotic foxes. i really don't understand the mentality behind banning the native species at all. :P

Also, if your friend would like a voice to add to theirs on this issue, let me know, i would love to get more involved.

I'm also intrigued by the USDA thing that you mentioned, could you tell me more about that? It sounded like that could be a good potential way to for me get my red fox someday. I wouldn't mind doing educational stuff or showing, that would be fun.

And i had no idea that conservatory was there. Its 60 miles and an hour drive in good traffic from my house (i live in Gresham) but I'm for sure going to go, it looks so awesome!

Thank you for your help, I feel much more optimistic about my chances now.
Emily Grace
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Alynn
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby Alynn » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:01 am

Welcome to the board! I'm a member from Michigan and I have an arctic fox, so I'm always open for questions. ^^

Let us know how the visit goes! I love hearing about members who actually manage to visit foxes before even getting one. That just shows a lot of love and gumption, imo. :)
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:24 am

You got it backwards actually or at least part of it. It does get confusing due to there being so many laws.

Native foxes are not covered by the exotic ban but they have their own law which seems to prohibit them. The exotic law is the one that exempts USDA licensees. So with a USDA that would let you have an exotic fox but not a native fox, so not a red.

Reds are covered under the wildlife and fur bearers laws which are more confusing. My friend right now gets different answer from different people on that but mostly negative even though the laws itself is written in language that would allow it. I'll see if I can get the date of the meeting, it's not set yet, and maybe you could go and try to get things clarified for foxes. He's actually concentrating on another fur bearer/exotic right now but it could help clarify it for all, maybe.

Here is what I have on the state laws viewtopic.php?f=71&t=9071
EmilyGrace
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby EmilyGrace » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:04 am

@Alynn Oh yes! What's his/her name? How have you found it managing your arctic while being going to school?
And i'll be sure to post pics and stuff when i go to the conservatory in Rainier, OR to see the fennecs.
EmilyGrace
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby EmilyGrace » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:15 am

@TamanduaGirl
OK, no USDA licenses for reds.Thanks for straightening that out. I can see this is not going to be easy, but something worth doing hardly ever is.
And yes, i would love the date of that meeting if your friend doesn't mind, what animal are they interested in?
Also, Why do you guys think people are so opposed to the idea of foxes as pets?
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Alynn
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby Alynn » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:20 am

her name is Miehiera. And it's certainly not something I'd recommend. A few other members here, Ash has her fox while attending college and had to let him be babysat by her parents for a bit, and Ragtatter with her fox Gizmo also had some problems here and there with it. It can be done, but it's really best to wait until you're done with college or any sort of other time consuming long term commitment before taking on a fox. I think it's a situation similar to getting a child, so if you wouldn't have a kid, you might also not have a fox.

Opposition I think comes from ignorance and being set in their ways. a lot of people insist that foxes are all wild animals that will eventually turn, and even the ranched foxes who have been bred in captivity since the 1800's need to be allowed to 'run free' - despite the fact that they would likely die. Even people who have seen the domesticated fox experiment in Siberia refuse to believe that most foxes kept as pets in the US considered domestic/farmed animals much like cattle or goats, even if they aren't as domesticated or bred for the same purpose as dogs and cats.
Foxes are also more difficult to keep as pets, and a lot of people don't understand why someone would want an animal that isn't as obedient as a dog.
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sarajeku
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby sarajeku » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:37 am

Alynn wrote:it's really best to wait until you're done with college or any sort of other time consuming long term commitment before taking on a fox.

I agree. I've been dying for a fox for years (I've been hanging around this forum for at least 3 years). But I decided to wait until I finished college before getting a fox.
I really recommend finding a wildlife sanctuary and volunteering with them to get some hands on experience with them. That's what I did, my initial goal being to gain hands on experience with foxes (the refuge has rehab baby foxes every year) but I fell in love with coyotes, which was something I didn't expect.
Anyway, my point: if you volunteer, you might surprise even yourself with what your real interests become, and you'll gain valuable experience when it comes to caring for your future pet.
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EmilyGrace
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby EmilyGrace » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:48 am

@Alynn
Oh, yeah, I've looked at your and Ragtatter's blogs as part of my research. Miehiera and Gizmo are so cute!
I am sad that i am currently unable to get a fox, and sad that so many other people are so close minded about fox-ownership. Hopefully that can be changed.
EmilyGrace
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby EmilyGrace » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:56 am

@sarajeku
That must be so incredible. I looked into volunteering at a wildlife rehabilitation center, the nearest one which takes mammals is an hour away (in good traffic) in Marian County, OR. Also, the fox population in Oregon is not large. I feel like I'm meant to be with them, but i would need a slightly bigger gas budget to make that happen at this point. :P
Also, I'm curious about coyote behavior too, what is your Totem like?
Last edited by EmilyGrace on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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sarajeku
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby sarajeku » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:59 am

EmilyGrace wrote:@sarajeku
That must be so incredible. I looked into volunteering at a wildlife rehabilitation center, the nearest one which takes mammals is an hour away (in good traffic) in Marian County, OR. Also, the fox population in Oregon is not large. I feel like I'm meant to be with them, this must be the universe's way of telling me to get a job and a bigger gas budget so that i can make that happen. :P
Also, I'm curious about coyote behavior too, what is your Totem like (as an individual and as opposed to foxes)?


We can chat about Totem's behavior in his thread or a new one if you like. I don't want to take over yours. icon-smile
The refuge I volunteer with is actually an hour away too. I just love it so much that I make the effort to go.
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Ash
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Re: Hello everyone! Oregonian Fox Lover with Questions.

Postby Ash » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:12 am

I have to admit, it is extremely tough going to college at the same time as owning a fox (or any pet, for that matter). There was a point where it got really difficult for me, and family pitched in, thank goodness. :shock: Some semesters were certainly much easier than others. So it's doable for sure if you have people to help you out, but really hard at the same time. What I learned is I need to be willing to shift my school schedule in order to make time for Fable--which probably isn't very good advice, but it worked for me.

That'll be great if you get to go see some fennecs! They're certainly very adorable little creatures.
3 red fox, 4 iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, tarantula

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