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Hi!

Tell us a little about yourself, pets or whatever.

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Ulfhednar
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:29 am
Location: Canada

Hi!

Postby Ulfhednar » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:01 am

Hi, i am Sabrina, from Canada.

I own 2 dogs that are raw fed and 3 cats on a raw diet too. I made a butcher school to be able to feed my pets the best quality meat possible. I also did farming class a few years ago and i plan to grow my own organic veggies, fruits and medicinal plants (not pot). I will also raise "meat animal" since i do not believe in "factory meat/meat industry". I believe that all animal deserve love and a taste of freedom, even the one that are planned to be consumed.

I am a non official dog trainer, i rescued and rehabbed ex-fighting dogs, severely abused and neglected dogs. I had great success using my natural instinct and the knowledge i had from books and website. I helped many people around me avoiding dogs to end up in shelters.

My uncle used to run a zoo in Quebec so i had access to the zoo even when it was outside of the open season. I have been close to wild animal all my life, including tigers, lions, cheetah, panther, zebra, wild boar, camels, many others including elephants, elephants were a big part of my childhood since my father worked at the zoo and was one of the trainer and caregiver for several years.

I currently live in Quebec but i am moving to Alberta in a few months to a great home with 1 acre land.

I am interested into getting a fox kit since they are legal in most provinces as long as they are not wild natural colors. In alberta it's all down to which city you live in. Some say a strict no, some say yes and you don't even need a permit, some just ask for a permit.

The small town i am moving in have no laws about it. So i am serious about buying a fox kit.
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Cindy23323
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Re: Hi!

Postby Cindy23323 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:46 pm

Welcome to the forum
Ulfhednar
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Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:29 am
Location: Canada

Re: Hi!

Postby Ulfhednar » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:04 pm

Thanks you.
I am really looking forward getting to know you all.
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Ash
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Re: Hi!

Postby Ash » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:53 am

Hello! It's great to have you here. That's amazing that you have grown up around those sorts of animals. What a dream.

I'm pretty sure it's illegal in Alberta to own foxes of all kinds. Not 100% sure, but pretty sure. I think Quebec is the only place you can own them as pets.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
Ulfhednar
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:29 am
Location: Canada

Re: Hi!

Postby Ulfhednar » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:20 am

Ash wrote:Hello! It's great to have you here. That's amazing that you have grown up around those sorts of animals. What a dream.

I'm pretty sure it's illegal in Alberta to own foxes of all kinds. Not 100% sure, but pretty sure. I think Quebec is the only place you can own them as pets.


It depends on municipality, my county, and town bylaws say nothing about owning a fox as a pet. ( i am still giving them both a call on monday after work or tuesday just to make sure, and also ask if there is any restriction for "dangerous breed dogs")


The website friendly fox says :
ALBERTA
Are foxes legal ➝ YES (species such as fennec fox or a ranched colored vulpes vulpes). Depending on the municipality, you may or may not have to license it).
Person contacted on this matter ➝ IVAN, from the 311 Services of the city of Edmonton.
Contact (email/phone) ➝ Animal Services (780) 496-8860 / 311@edmonton.ca
Excerpts of our conversation ➝ « I have contacted animal control and been advised that foxes, (domesticated or otherwise) is not a licensable animal and therefore not allowed under in the City of Edmonton as a pet. »
« Within the city of Brooks, there is no bylaw that controls the ownership and/or possession of wild animals or exotic pets such as foxes. So from the municipal governance perspective, yes it is legal and you would not have to license the animal. » (ANY fox specie may be kept in Brooks city). An agent from the Fish & Wildlife dept. listed vaguely what categories of animals weren't legal, but there was no evidence foxes were legal. If you want a copy of that section of the laws, contact me).
Laws (The Wildlife Act of Alberta) ➝ http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/W10.pdf


I am talking to a breeder since yesterday night and she can have white faced foxes which are "ranched color" i guess. I don't know if she can make a red white faced one but i sure do hope so. I really like red foxes and their variations and also the cross foxes and their variations, my fiancé really love the silver and the silver white faced (white marks).

I look on many places for pictures of morph i would like the best but it's almost always the same pictures. I am a bit confused on what colour would be legal and what not. I know the breeder have reds, sunglow, silver, silver white faced, and blue arctic foxes. The only color morph i seen a lot around is silver white faced. I wonder if i will ever find pictures of possible variations other than the ones on the list in on sybil's den and on http://livingwithfoxes.weebly.com/colour-morphs.html
i have found very few pictures of sunglow / red marble so i cannot know if i would prefer the color over an other. I know it would probably be easier to own in regards of the laws than a red red one. But i would like to see more before making my final choice and be on the waiting list. If anyone could help me with that i'd be so happy!!
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Ash
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Re: Hi!

Postby Ash » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:26 am

Cool.

Sunglows are commonly kept. They're pretty animals. I like the marbles, whether red or silver.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
Ulfhednar
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:29 am
Location: Canada

Re: Hi!

Postby Ulfhednar » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:30 am

Ash wrote:Cool.

Sunglows are commonly kept. They're pretty animals. I like the marbles, whether red or silver.



I rarely see pictures or videos of them :( I see always the same 2-3 pictures on all the website, i have to search pelts to see what the color looks like. I wish more people posted their pictures with color identification :)
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BlueBaby1023
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Re: Hi!

Postby BlueBaby1023 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:22 pm

I hate to burst your bubble but Ash was right. :icon-frown: Pretty much all foxes are banned as pets in Alberta. I have found that the website you posted that information from (the friendly fox) while well meaning, is inaccurate. This is a few excerpts from your Alberta laws.

Regarding the fact that you need a permit for controlled species or wildlife:

"Part 5
Possession of and Commerce
in Animals
Application
54 Nothing in this Part prohibits any activity that is authorized by
or under the Livestock Identification and Commerce Act, the Meat
Inspection Act or the Meat Inspection Act (Canada).
RSA 2000 cW-10 s54;2003 c26 s17;2006 cL-16.2 s101
Possession of wildlife and controlled animals
55(1) Subject to this Act, a person must not be in possession of a
wildlife or controlled animal.

(2) Subject to this Act, a person may have a wildlife or controlled
animal in the person’s possession
(a) if and to the extent that the person is authorized by a
permit to do so,
(b) on a fur farm or a domestic cervid production farm if that
possession is reasonably incidental to the operation of that
farm, or off the farm if that possession is reasonably
necessary for its operation, "

(From: http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/acts/w10.pdf)

Primarily, Reds, Arctics and Grays are controlled as "wildlife" species because they are native. As a result, you need a fur farm, zoological, or research permit to own one of these animals.

"Schedule 4

(Section 4(1)(a) to (g) of this Regulation)

Wildlife

Part 3
Fur‑Bearing Animals
Tamiasciurus hudsonicus [American Red (Red) Squirrel]
Castor canadensis [American Beaver (Beaver)]
Ondatra zibethicus (Muskrat)
Canis latrans (Coyote)
Canis lupus [Wolf (Gray Wolf)]
Alopex lagopus (Arctic Fox)
Vulpes vulpes (Red Fox)
Urocyon cinereoargenteus (Gray Fox)

Martes americana [American Marten (Marten)]"

(From: http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?page= ... splay=html)

In addition to those three species, the act later goes on to state that all foxes in the genus Vulpes, which encompasses Fennecs, Swifts, Kits, etc. in addition to Reds and Arctics, are also banned. It also goes on to include some more minor species, including Bat-Eared's, Crab-eaters, etc.

"Schedule 5

(Section 4(1)(h) of this Regulation)

Controlled Animals....

ALL DOG‑LIKE (Family Canidae)
Foxes Genus Vulpes
Gray Foxes Genus Urocyon
Arctic Fox Alopex lagopus
South American Foxes Genus Pseudalopex
Crab‑eating Fox Cerdocyon thous
Bat‑eared Fox Otocyon megalotis
"

(From: http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?page= ... splay=html)
4 Fancy Rats
2 American Guinea Pigs
1 Holland Lop Rabbit
1 Rex Rabbit
2 Ferrets
1 Lutino Cockatiel
5 Mixed Breed Cats
1 PitxLab
1 Great Pyr
1 Greyhound
2 Great PyrxAnatolian Shepherds
2 Red Foxes
5 Goats
~100 chickens, ducks, and turkeys
Ulfhednar
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:29 am
Location: Canada

Re: Hi!

Postby Ulfhednar » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:44 pm

BlueBaby1023 wrote:
55(1) Subject to this Act, a person must not be in possession of a
wildlife or controlled animal.

(2) Subject to this Act, a person may have a wildlife or controlled
animal in the person’s possession
(a) if and to the extent that the person is authorized by a
permit to do so,
(b) on a fur farm or a domestic cervid production farm if that
possession is reasonably incidental to the operation of that
farm, or off the farm if that possession is reasonably
necessary for its operation, "



So if i have a permit, i can own one. Or i just do not understand english.

Wildlife acquisition permit - eligibility
83 The Minister may issue a wildlife acquisition permit to an adult non‑resident or non‑resident alien
(a) if the applicant satisfies the Regional Head of Wildlife Management that he has a use outside Alberta for the live wildlife described in the permit, and
(b) the Regional Head of Wildlife Management has approved that use.
AR 143/97 s83;105/2002
Wildlife acquisition permit - entitlements
84(1) A wildlife acquisition permit authorizes its holder
(a) to purchase for export from Alberta the live wildlife described in the permit, and
(b) to possess it for that purpose.
(2) Wildlife referred to in subsection (1) may not be wildlife that is the property of the Crown.
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BlueBaby1023
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Location: Florida

Re: Hi!

Postby BlueBaby1023 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:58 pm

Ulfhednar wrote:So if i have a permit, i can own one. Or i just do not understand english.

Wildlife acquisition permit - eligibility
83 The Minister may issue a wildlife acquisition permit to an adult non‑resident or non‑resident alien
(a) if the applicant satisfies the Regional Head of Wildlife Management that he has a use outside Alberta for the live wildlife described in the permit, and
(b) the Regional Head of Wildlife Management has approved that use.
AR 143/97 s83;105/2002
Wildlife acquisition permit - entitlements
84(1) A wildlife acquisition permit authorizes its holder
(a) to purchase for export from Alberta the live wildlife described in the permit, and
(b) to possess it for that purpose.
(2) Wildlife referred to in subsection (1) may not be wildlife that is the property of the Crown.


You are misreading it, you are a resident of Alberta so the permit does not apply residents. It is only available for fur farms, zoos, and research unless you are not a resident of Alberta and have a purpose outside of Alberta. Sorry about that.
4 Fancy Rats
2 American Guinea Pigs
1 Holland Lop Rabbit
1 Rex Rabbit
2 Ferrets
1 Lutino Cockatiel
5 Mixed Breed Cats
1 PitxLab
1 Great Pyr
1 Greyhound
2 Great PyrxAnatolian Shepherds
2 Red Foxes
5 Goats
~100 chickens, ducks, and turkeys
Ulfhednar
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:29 am
Location: Canada

Re: Hi!

Postby Ulfhednar » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:03 pm

BlueBaby1023 wrote:
Ulfhednar wrote:So if i have a permit, i can own one. Or i just do not understand english.

Wildlife acquisition permit - eligibility
83 The Minister may issue a wildlife acquisition permit to an adult non‑resident or non‑resident alien
(a) if the applicant satisfies the Regional Head of Wildlife Management that he has a use outside Alberta for the live wildlife described in the permit, and
(b) the Regional Head of Wildlife Management has approved that use.
AR 143/97 s83;105/2002
Wildlife acquisition permit - entitlements
84(1) A wildlife acquisition permit authorizes its holder
(a) to purchase for export from Alberta the live wildlife described in the permit, and
(b) to possess it for that purpose.
(2) Wildlife referred to in subsection (1) may not be wildlife that is the property of the Crown.


You are misreading it, you are a resident of Alberta so the permit does not apply residents. It is only available for fur farms, zoos, and research unless you are not a resident of Alberta and have a purpose outside of Alberta. Sorry about that.


I don't understand. Why would alberta give permit to people who have nothing to do there?
If i am non-native from alberta does it apply to me? I mean i am still living in Quebec, we are in procedure of buying a house and land there.
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BlueBaby1023
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Location: Florida

Re: Hi!

Postby BlueBaby1023 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:19 pm

Ulfhednar wrote:I don't understand. Why would alberta give permit to people who have nothing to do there?
If i am non-native from alberta does it apply to me? I mean i am still living in Quebec, we are in procedure of buying a house and land there.


They issue them in order to transport or do similar things that require entry and exit from Alberta. Think of breeders that are transporting animals, or traveling circuses/educational shows, etc. I don't know about Canada, but I doubt that being from Quebec matters, because as soon as you buy a house/land and transfer all of your stuff to Alberta you will be a resident of Alberta, not Quebec.
4 Fancy Rats
2 American Guinea Pigs
1 Holland Lop Rabbit
1 Rex Rabbit
2 Ferrets
1 Lutino Cockatiel
5 Mixed Breed Cats
1 PitxLab
1 Great Pyr
1 Greyhound
2 Great PyrxAnatolian Shepherds
2 Red Foxes
5 Goats
~100 chickens, ducks, and turkeys
Ulfhednar
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:29 am
Location: Canada

Re: Hi!

Postby Ulfhednar » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:22 pm

BlueBaby1023 wrote:
Ulfhednar wrote:I don't understand. Why would alberta give permit to people who have nothing to do there?
If i am non-native from alberta does it apply to me? I mean i am still living in Quebec, we are in procedure of buying a house and land there.


They issue them in order to transport or similar things that require entry and exit from Alberta. Think of breeders that are transporting animals, or traveling circuses/educational shows, etc. I don't know about Canada, but I doubt that being from Quebec matters, because as soon as you buy a house/land and transfer all of your stuff to Alberta you will be a resident of Alberta, not Quebec.



Thanks i will try to give them a call this week just to be sure. I heard many different versions so i want to make sure. I do not mind cancelling my whole moving and buying somewhere else even if it was the perfect place for us.
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BlueBaby1023
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Re: Hi!

Postby BlueBaby1023 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:27 pm

Ulfhednar wrote:Thanks i will try to give them a call this week just to be sure. I heard many different versions so i want to make sure. I do not mind cancelling my whole moving and buying somewhere else even if it was the perfect place for us.


That will be best, but be careful who you talk to. Some states in the US are notorious for having law-illiterate people working in government positions, and can tell you incorrect information. Unfortunately, if someone does say something that is wrong, that will not change the letter of the law. Which, from what I can tell, completely bans all fox species for pet purposes. At any rate, good luck.
4 Fancy Rats
2 American Guinea Pigs
1 Holland Lop Rabbit
1 Rex Rabbit
2 Ferrets
1 Lutino Cockatiel
5 Mixed Breed Cats
1 PitxLab
1 Great Pyr
1 Greyhound
2 Great PyrxAnatolian Shepherds
2 Red Foxes
5 Goats
~100 chickens, ducks, and turkeys
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: Hi!

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:51 pm

Yep. There was one older Case in Canada where an official told them it was okay to get a fox when it wasn't and the fox was taken. They fought it in court and lost but kept appealing to higher powers and they won BUT it took 5 YEARS and in the mean time the fox was not with them for that 5 years. Not 100% sure if they ever actually got him back after winning though. A lot of times even if the judge says it should go back the other side will pull a "Oh we don't know where he is now" or something and just not give the animals back. At any rate your pet wont be the same after being kept in a cage somewhere far away from you for years while you fight, if you have the money and time to actually fight. So yeah it matters much more what the law actually is than what is said to you but if they do say it's legal getting it in writing is the only way you can sorta be protected by maybe winning a case in CA(I know in USA the same cited case would not have turned out that way. Here it's to bad doesn't matter who told you what, the law is the law).

Edit: the info above you are relying on also is from two cities and not from them having talked to Alberta officials which is what matters first before the cities get involved.

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