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Hello from Texas

Tell us a little about yourself, pets or whatever.

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caninesrock
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Re: Hello from Texas

Postby caninesrock » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:13 pm

Cindy23323 wrote:There is only one county in Texas that is illegal for wolfdogs, here's a nice write up on it. Apparently it is illegal in Tx. to have a bsl for canines. And only one county (San Antonio) has went to court over it and was granted the right to change it there.
http://wolfdogforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1363


It's also illegal in Houston. The city ordinances say so as they say you can't have any wild animals, including hybrids, within Houston city limits.Also, the one guy had to give the sanctuary I volunteered at his wolfdogs because Montgomery County in Texas told him it was illegal because they had just passed a ban there and they were going to confiscate his animals. I don't think bsl applies to wolfdogs because they are techincally not a breed as they could be any combination of different breeds crossed to a wolf, i.e. german shepard x wolf,husky x wolf, malamute x wolf, german shepard x wolf x malamute x wolf again, and so on. Thus, I think this is why they are banned some places in Texas because the no bsl law doesn't apply to them since they are techhnically not a breed.
Last edited by caninesrock on Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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caninesrock
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Re: Hello from Texas

Postby caninesrock » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:28 pm

Elina wrote:Hi!
Gosh the enclosure you are building sounds brilliant!

Sadly as far as I am aware you can't own a fox in Texas but if you can talk your wife round to the wolf dog I believe an enclosure of that size would be great for one.

If you can't talk your wife around you could get one of the wolf look alike dogs such as a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, Saarloos Wolfdog or Utonagan.

I very much look forward to reading what critter you do decide to get in the end and if you can convince your wife to let you have a wolf dog hehe.

Czech Wolfdog and Saarloos Wolfdog are not lookalikes. They are actually wolfdogs that have wolf in their bloodlines in fairly recent ancestry(like 50 years ago) versus some other breeds like german shepards that had some wolf in the beginning,but are very old breeds that the wolf is since probably more than 100 years removed from the breed. I don't know exactly how old of a breed german shepards are, just that they are a much older breed than Czechs and Saarlooses as those didn't become reconized until like the 1950s or 1960s. They also are only for experienced handlers and still retain some wolf-like behaviors. I'm not sure how the legislation on wolfdog bans would consider them though. Given the fact that the Texas government's law about foxes is clear about fur farm animals and fennecs are not fur farm animals,yet officials still ban them as well, I think that local officials would probably enforce wolfdog bans by banning anything with wolfdog in the name, including established breeds such as the Sarloos and Czech Wolfdogs and the state gov. would probably back them on it if you tried to complain to them. A Utoganan, Tamaskan, Northern Inuit Dog,and British Inuit dog are all wolf-look-alikes becuase they supposedly have no wolf ancestry what-so-ever in them except for way-way-way back in their ancestry from the founding breeds used to make them that had wolf way-way-way back in their(the founding breed's) ancestry and also while I have no idea about the others, atleast with the Tamaskan, the whole point was to create a dog that looked like a wolf,but retained very little if any wolf-like behaviors and thus was a dog inexperienced handlers could own,manage, and keep as a family household pet. Of course, there are rumors about all 4 having wolf ancestry hidden away in them(the one with the most actual evidence to the rumors being true are the Tamaskan),but if you give the benefit of the doubt and choose to believe the breeders and that the evidence is faked(not likely), then they have no wolf in them and are a true wolf-look-alikes rather than wolfdogs.
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Re: Hello from Texas

Postby Elina » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:02 pm

All the dogs I listed are just classed as dogs over here so I assumed the same would be the case in the US. They are not Kennel club recognised but they are like I said just classed as dogs.

Seeing as JStreet was after a wolf I did not see the point in saying they are high maintenance dogs as at the end of the day the fact they are classed as dogs over here makes them much easier to look after then a wolf.
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Re: Hello from Texas

Postby JStreet » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:18 pm

Well it seems I cant have a hybrid wold, bobcat, lynx or a fox. Not sure where to go from here, im kinda at a loss.
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caninesrock
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Re: Hello from Texas

Postby caninesrock » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:10 pm

Elina wrote:All the dogs I listed are just classed as dogs over here so I assumed the same would be the case in the US. They are not Kennel club recognised but they are like I said just classed as dogs.

Seeing as JStreet was after a wolf I did not see the point in saying they are high maintenance dogs as at the end of the day the fact they are classed as dogs over here makes them much easier to look after then a wolf.

I don't know how they are classified,but I was just saying that Saarloos and Czechs do actually have wolf in them and aren't look-alikes. Here in the US they are recongized breeds,but still considered wolfdogs.

History

In 1921, Dutch breeder Leendert Saarloos started crossbreeding a German Shepherd Dog male to a female Mackenzie Valley Wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis). He aimed for an improved version of the German Shepherd Dog which would be immune to distemper, and succeeded insofar that the Saarlooswolfdog we know is a strong imposing dog, but it kept its wolflike characteristics; it is cautious, reserved and lacks the ferocity to attack; it is not the dog that Leendert Saarloos hoped to get. His theory was also proven wrong, as nearly all the first generation hybrids succumbed to distemper. Until Leendert Saarloos died in 1969, he was in full control over the breeding of his "European wolfdog". The Dutch Kennel Club recognized the breed in 1975. To honor its creator they changed the name to "Saarlooswolfdog". In 1981 the breed was recognized by the Fédération Cynologique Internationale (FCI). In the past, some Saarlooswolfdogs were trained as guide dogs for the blind and as rescue dogs.


Ownership

Due to its size and strength, the Saarlooswolfhound is only recommended for experienced dog owners. Most owners have at least two Saarloos to provide the necessary pack, because the animals are still pack-oriented. The breed is very intelligent. Isolation intensifies anti-social behavior, and these dogs will panic if locked in an enclosed space


The Czechoslovakian Wolfdog (or Vlčák/Vlčiak) is a relatively new breed of dog that traces its original lineage to an experiment conducted in 1955 in Czechoslovakia. After initially breeding 48 working line German Shepherds with 4 Carpathian wolves, a plan was worked out to create a breed that would have the temperament, pack mentality, and trainability of the German Shepherd and the strength, physical build, and stamina of the Carpathian wolf. The breed was engineered to assist with border patrol in Czechoslovakia but were later also used in search and rescue, schutzhund, tracking, herding, agility, obedience, and drafting. It was officially recognized as a national breed in Czechoslovakia in 1982, in 1999 it became FCI standard no. 332, group 1, section 1.


Temperament

The CSV is more versatile than specialized. It is quick, lively, very active, fearless and courageous. Distinct from the character of Saarloos Wolfhound, shyness is a disqualifying fault in the Czechoslovakian Vlčák.

The Czechoslovakian Vlčák develops a very strong social relationship not only with their owner, but with the whole family. It can easily learn to live with other domestic animals which belong to the family; however, difficulties can occur in encounters with strange animals. It is vital to subdue the Czechoslovakian Vlčiak's passion for hunting when they are puppies to avoid aggressive behavior towards smaller animals as an adult. The puppy should never be isolated in the kennel; it must be socialized and get used to different surroundings. Female Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs tend to be more easily controllable, but both genders often experience a stormy adolescence.



The Czechoslovakian Vlčák is very playful and temperamental. It learns easily. However, it does not train spontaneously, the behavior of the Czech Vlčák is strictly purposeful - it is necessary to find motivation for training. The most frequent cause of failure is usually the fact that the dog is tired out with long useless repetitions of the same exercise, which results in the loss of motivation. These dogs have admirable senses and are very good at following trails. They are very independent and can cooperate in the pack with a special purposefulness. If required, they can easily shift their activity to the night hours. Sometimes problems can occur during their training when barking is required. Czechoslovakian Vlčáks have a much wider range of means of expressing themselves and barking is unnatural for them; they try to communicate with their masters in other ways (mainly body language but also use quiet noises as in growls, grunts, and whining). Generally, teaching the CSV stable and reliable performance takes a bit longer than teaching traditional specialized breeds. Italians have successfully employed the Czechoslovakian Vlčák as a Search And Rescue (SAR) dog although, admittedly, handling one is much more work.


But I did find this about the UK,but I don't think the same rules apply here in the US. I think they'd still probably be banned anywhere wolfdogs are banned in the US with the way state laws are written as you know from the whole no foxes saga because of the fur farms yet fennecs which are not fur farms animals being banned anyway):

UK Ownership

The breed was introduced to the UK in 2002. The first litter was born in 2003 and was registered by the UK Kennel Club, but after contact with DEFRA the Kennel Club withdrew all registration papers as DEFRA classified the Czechoslovakian wolfdog as a dangerous wild animal. This led to some confusion as breeders have letters from the UK Kennel Club inviting the breed to the UK and giving them advice on what to do to get this breed recognised within the UK. Yet further confusion was again added to this saga when a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog was imported directly via DEFRA, where all paperwork had been checked prior to their importation. DEFRA also has confirmed two Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs have been granted with pet passports and therefore travel freely to Europe and back with no problems. As of 2008 DEFRA have confirmed that any dog three or more generations removed from pure wolf now no longer comes under the Dangerous Wild Animals act and therefore no longer needs a special licence to keep. The Czechoslovakian Wolfdog and the Saarlooswolfhound are now no longer classified as 'Dangerous Wild Animals' [1].


from wikipedia

Also from:http://www.tschechoslowakische-wolfshunde.com/Englisch/index.html

This highlights some wolf qualities Czech Wolfdogs retained that make them difficult pets and much harder to handle than the wolf-look-alikes:

We trained to stay home alone from the beginning. We did not have much success. There were days the dogs was home alone up to one hour, and nothing happend, there were days the dogs was at home alone for 10 minutes and something was destroyed. We know owner who can leave their dog alone for quiete a long time (up to 6 hours- no dogs should be alone for much longer anyway). On the other hand we know people having their dog in a kennel or in a box or locked away when he has to be alone. I actually love their howling, unfortunately my neighbours do not. Ok, it can be loud and pushing.


when the dog is with you all the time, not alone for long then you can have a CSV ast he only dog. But think about this: YOR ARE HIS PACK. HIS COMPANION an you have to replace his pack and be there for him all the time. Are you able and willing to do so?

CSV belong in a pack. But it is possible, that there is trouble in the pack because of his dominance. BE AWARE OF THIS. There can be fights for the leading role. The wolf inheritance is obvious. You should know this before getting some more dogs. Make sure you know exactly what you want. Have the dogs together? Have the dogs seperated (thing about it when you have a couple of dogs. Can you separate the dogs if it is necessary? Do you want male dogs? Female dogs? A pair? This is the easiest constellation, but thing about what it happening when the female is in the heat. Do you have the opportunity to separate them?


Well, many people live together with a CSV and kids, I would not recommend it,


And for Saarloos:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=63
I don't think the Saarloos has the right temperament, he is difficult to train and gets bored easily. You can teach a few tricks and commands very succesfully but they can get easily fed up with a task when they can't see the point in doing it. They also seem to have many wolf characteristics in the breed including shyness of strangers, fear of new things etc.


As for the wolf-look-alikes:
The Tamaskan Dog is a rare dog breed of sleddog type, originating from Finland. It is a highly versatile breed that is known to excel in agility, obedience and working trials. It is also capable of pulling sleds, which is inherited from its Siberian Husky and Alaskan Malamute ancestors. Morphologically, Tamaskans have been bred to look like wolves and have a notable lupine appearance, although they contain no recent wolf ancestry. Although there are fewer than 3000 registered Tamaskan Dogs worldwide, increasing interest has resulted in their spread throughout continental Europe, the UK and the USA, as well as Canada and Australia.[


Tamaskans are highly intelligent and have been known to excel in agility, obedience and working trials. They also make good sled dogs and many Tamaskans living in colder climates regularly participate in recreational, and occasionally competitive, dogsled racing as well as skijoring. They make excellent search and rescue dogs due to their keen sense of smell, stamina and endurance. Tamaskans can also be successfully trained as therapy or assistance dogs due to their friendly and laid-back personality. As a breed they are very social and are good with people, children, and other dogs, as well as other family pets (cats, chickens, rabbits, hamsters, parakeets, etc.). However, Tamaskan Dogs do not cope well without company and if left alone for long periods of time they may become bored, which can lead to destructive behavior and/or escape attempts. Moreover, Tamaskan Dogs love to dig holes and can pull quite strongly on the leash; both traits they have inherited from their arctic heritage. However, unlike some of their husky ancestors, Tamaskans generally respond well off the leash and, with a small amount of training, will return when called.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamaskan_dog

The Utonagan is a dog with a superb temperament; this in turn makes for a wonderful family dog and companion. They love the company of people and also socialize well with cats and smaller dogs. They are not a dog that likes to be left alone and problems may arise if they are, such as destructive behaviour and escaping. They have a high "pack" mentality, and it is best they have the company of another dog(s), unless you are able to give them your full time companionship. If trained incorrectly, the dog may suffer same-sex dog aggression during its "teenage" years. They are very intelligent, are boisterous in play, and can do well at many activities.


The Utonagan and Northern Inuit were created from 5 rescue dogs of unknown origin imported to the UK from America in 1987. Siberian Husky, Alaskan Malamute and German Shepherd were added. The original dogs were bred by Edwina Harrison, who advertised them as wolf-dog hybrid.[2] Buck, the founding father, looked like an Alaskan Malamute. His more wolf-like pups were prized for breeding.

The Utonagan and the Northern Inuit originally came from the same stock, but the Utonagan Society further developed its lines by returning to stock from the conceptual breeder. They are now considered two separate breeds.




History


In the late 1980s, the founder of the breed, Eddie Harrison, utilized several mixed-breed rescue dogs of unknown origin or heritage, crossing them with the Siberian Husky, Alaskan Malamute, and German Shepherd to produce early Northern Inuit dogs. The breed's intent was to create a dog that phenotypically closely resembles a wolf in appearance while possessing the gentler, more trainable character of the domesticated dog. However, like many spitz-type breeds, Northern Inuits have a more "primitive" nature than many breeds and are not recommended for inexperienced owners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Inuit
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Tim74
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Re: Hello from Texas

Postby Tim74 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:10 am

I have been doing a bit of research and found you may own a fox in Texas. You can only own an arctic or fennec fox. No gray or red. You must apply for a licensed fur-bearing animal propagator permit. I talked to TPWD and arctics are good to go. The brochure can be found at http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publication ... packet.pdf
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Re: Hello from Texas

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:55 pm

You can not have them as pets. It says right in that flier, not a pet permit. Propagator is for breeding. If you want to breed fine but most people just want a pet and they wont give that permit just for a person to have one pet and not breed or sell. You will also need federal USDA for breeding.

There is also a TX law that says you need permission for each fox you sell out of state and you can't sell them in state unless to other propagators. This all will be quite a chore for someone who just wanted a pet.

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