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I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Tell us a little about yourself, pets or whatever.

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Rumsfield
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Location: Detroit, MI

I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby Rumsfield » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:52 pm

Hello,

I am very interested in owning a gray fox one day. I have been reading these forums and learning a lot about fox ownership in order to decide if it is a good idea or not. I have to thank you all because you have helped me narrow my choices down to either a gray fox or a fennec fox. I love them both! Unfortunately, Michigan only allows ownership of native foxes(Red, Silver, or Gray) according to Michigan DNR. So if I do get a fox, it will be a gray. I'm going to be lurking around and admiring your cute pet fox photos... keep them coming!

Thanks!

Josh
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:41 pm

I think you miss heard or got the wrong info. You need a permit for native foxes(red/silver or gray) there's nothing needed, except maybe an import permit for non-native/exotic foxes.

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=9103

You you can have a red or gray but you will need a permit but you could have the others also and no permit.
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sarajeku
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby sarajeku » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:50 pm

Welcome to the forum! :)
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Ciaobella
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby Ciaobella » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:43 am

Welcome to the forum :)
Was Cierpke, lost password xD
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Alynn
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby Alynn » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:58 pm

Iunno who the heck told you that, but they're wrong.

Well, it's great to see yet another Michigander! Seems like most of the new members are from Michigan as well. =)

Anyway, the Michigan laws are like this - you can keep any species of fox that you can have in the US, but it depends on it's nativity to the state. If it is native, which Michigan classifies as the natural red coloring of red foxes - aka this color: http://www.wild-life-rehab.com/Educatio ... _Adult.jpg
as native, as well as gray foxes. In order to own this type of fox, you have to apply for a permit, build an enclosure and have it approved by the state. I believe this costs $40 to do so each year.

ALL OTHER COLORS of red fox, such as silver, cross, calico -- ALL the other colors of Vulpes vulpes EXCEPT red you can have without a permit. These are actually considered domestic animals by the state. Species not native to Michigan such as fennecs, arctics and swifts you can have without a permit, but you do need a certificate of health from the state it came from, which any good breeder who you get a kit from will provide one easly.

So to recap - if you get a RED COLORED Vulpes Vulpes aka red fox OR a gray fox, Urocyon cinereoargenteus, you need a state-issued permit.
Non native species which are considered vulpes vulpes of any coloration OTHER THAN red, such as silver, cross, whitemark, etc. and including but not limited to fennecs, arctics, swifts etc. you do not need a permit.

Be sure to check your local laws though.
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the_unstable
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby the_unstable » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:06 am

Hi and welcome! Alynn's response is awesome.

Currently I think we only have one active Gray owner on the board (Jen Jen) and she just got her fox. I'd love to see more gray owners on here. I hope you're able to get one someday :)
Rumsfield
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby Rumsfield » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:35 am

@Alynn

I emailed the Michigan DNR(DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov) and I asked: "Is it illegal in the state of Michigan to purchase or own a fox for the purpose of keeping and caring for as a pet?"

Casey R.(DNR) replied: "It is legal to have a native fox as long as you got it from a licensed breeder. Attached is the permit application and information circular for holding animals in captivity."

I then replied: "In your email you said it is legal to own a "native" fox. Does that mean native to Michigan. From what I have read, only red or grey fox species are native to Michigan. I found a Michigan breeder selling arctic foxes, surely an arctic fox isn't native to Michigan? Would it be too much to trouble to ask you for a list of fox breeds which are legal to own in Michigan(grey, red, arctic, fennec, ect.)?"

Casey R.(DNR) replied: "Grey/Silver and Red Foxes are considered to be native. Below is the list of Fox Breeders."

So from the DNR's response, I got the impression that only red/gray/silver foxes are LEGAL to own in my state, and for some reason they completely avoided mentioning if/how/when I can own any type of fox not native to Michigan.

Perhaps I could have been more clear or blunt in my email? Or perhaps this person knows as little as I do about captive fox regulations?
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the_unstable
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby the_unstable » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:09 pm

They simply said that "Grey/Silver and Red Foxes" are native, not that they are the only foxes that are legal to possess. I don't think it's necessary for them to list off all of the species you could technically legally have in Michigan, just rather mention what you need a permit for, which they did. I don't know why they said "Grey/Silver" because those two are entirely different species. A silver fox is a red fox. A gray fox is a gray fox.

However, Michigan laws have been discussed pretty thoroughly here. I am very confident that you only need a permit for native species, just as the DNR official said. That would be red-colored-red foxes and the gray species of foxes. I think the DNR official probably avoided the question about listing all species of foxes you can keep because they probably do not know all of the species and probably don't want to look it up, fear they might say something wrong, etc. Just my guess.

And yeah, chances are they probably do not know that much about the laws regarding possessing foxes. I'm sure that's a very minor part of their job and their duties. My state's DNR will tell me I can have a fox without a permit or anything, which is very untrue. They don't always have the right answers, but it sounds like the official you spoke to knows what to say.
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby Elina » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:17 pm

Alynn wrote:Iunno who the heck told you that, but they're wrong.

Well, it's great to see yet another Michigander! Seems like most of the new members are from Michigan as well. =)

Anyway, the Michigan laws are like this - you can keep any species of fox that you can have in the US, but it depends on it's nativity to the state. If it is native, which Michigan classifies as the natural red coloring of red foxes - aka this color: http://www.wild-life-rehab.com/Educatio ... _Adult.jpg
as native, as well as gray foxes. In order to own this type of fox, you have to apply for a permit, build an enclosure and have it approved by the state. I believe this costs $40 to do so each year.

ALL OTHER COLORS of red fox, such as silver, cross, calico -- ALL the other colors of Vulpes vulpes EXCEPT red you can have without a permit. These are actually considered domestic animals by the state. Species not native to Michigan such as fennecs, arctics and swifts you can have without a permit, but you do need a certificate of health from the state it came from, which any good breeder who you get a kit from will provide one easly.

So to recap - if you get a RED COLORED Vulpes Vulpes aka red fox OR a gray fox, Urocyon cinereoargenteus, you need a state-issued permit.
Non native species which are considered vulpes vulpes of any coloration OTHER THAN red, such as silver, cross, whitemark, etc. and including but not limited to fennecs, arctics, swifts etc. you do not need a permit.

Be sure to check your local laws though.


Wow maybe I should look into Michigan as well as my other possible states to move to.
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http://theflashmans.blogspot.com/ - Online home of Elspeth and Harry Flashman the Corsac foxes.
http://flashmanfoxes.webs.com - Photos and videos of my foxlings!
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Crafty
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby Crafty » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:05 pm

Hi and welcome! There are so many Michiganders here now!

Your reply from the DNR was from Casey Reitz, and that's why it is so unclear. I emailed her about a year ago regarding the laws here in Michigan and she was very, very unhelpful. My whole email thread was such a mess that I did not want to print it out to show the police in case they ever came knocking at my door.

When dealing with Casey Reitz, it is so much easier if you keep things short, sweet, and uncomplicated. Here is the alternate email that I sent to her:

Dear Casey Reitz,

I know that in Michigan you only need a permit for animals that are native to the state (i.e. permit to hold wildlife in captivity). This includes the red fox and the gray fox.

I just want to confirm that other nonnative foxes, such as the silver fox, cross fox, marble fox, arctic fox, et cetera, are legal to own in Michigan without a permit. I am also aware that if the animal is bought out of state that it needs to have a health inspection certificate.

I also know to check for any ordinances.

Thanks in advance,
"Crafty"


And her reply:

Yes. However a cross foxes cannot be a red or gray. If it is, it will require a permit. Thanks for checking.

Attached is a permit application and information circular. Let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks.

Casey M. Reitz
Wildlife Division - Permit Specialist
517-373-9329
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the_unstable
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby the_unstable » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:39 pm

However a cross foxes cannot be a red or gray.

What does that even mean? O.o
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Crafty
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby Crafty » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:26 am

Unstable - I think Reitz is referencing hybrids of some type. I'm fairly sure that when I mentioned cross foxes that she immediately thought of "the cross between a..." and since red colored foxes and gray foxes require a permit that she just wanted to cover all possibilities that would need a permit, too? She doesn't know a lot about foxes. And she is very prone to throwing that permit application around. I mean, I asked about nonnative foxes that do not require a permit, but she sent me the application for a permit anyway? Luckily, I wanted a silver fox so I didn't really have to deal with her messed up wording. If I wanted a cross fox, however, that would be a different story!
Rumsfield
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby Rumsfield » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:16 pm

Hi Crafty!

Yes there does seem to be many Michiganders here, I guess we really like our foxes!

Anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only one confused by Casey Reitz responses. Well, now that you all have set the record straight(you say I can own a Fennec fox without a permit), I am back at square one deciding between a Fennec or Gray fox. LOL!

I'm going up north Michigan for a week, so happy Independence Day to all the American members here! Don't frighten your foxes with all your fireworks! :lol:
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Jen Jen
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby Jen Jen » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:07 pm

Hi Rumsfield!

I just got my little gray fox girl about 3 weeks ago, and she is just a little cuddle bug(she's currently curled up against my side) so I'm very biased in favor of gray foxes. Whatever you decide, I hope to see bunches of pictures next year(or whenever you got your fox).
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Re: I'm New Just Saying Hi!

Postby veralidaine » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:36 pm

Ugh, I hate having to sort through legal-speak, so un-user friendly

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