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Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Wolf hybrids or other exotic species crossed with domestic

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Aeronothis
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Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby Aeronothis » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:42 pm

This is my baby girl Fenris. I got her from a couple claiming she was 98% wolf, and saying she was high content. A fact I knew to be not true but I thought she was beautiful when she was born so my wife and I got her anyways. She is only 8 months now and I'm not sure if any more characteristics will present, but I saw a picture of a Laika and thought -Hey that's a spitting image of my Fenris-. Since I found the picture here I read a bit on the forums I decided who better to ask than the people I learned from. I'm only posting this to get a better idea. I will love my Fenris either way. As an add-on my wife and I both think the she is either low or low-mid content. Here's to hoping that I can glean some information from this forum board. Thanks to anyone who replies.
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Fenris 4 months - summer
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7 - 8 months
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Wife and I eventually want to start a Rescue for wolfdogs once we have around 20 acres, and work our way to being able to breed responsibly once we have our Veterinary degrees.
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caninesrock
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby caninesrock » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:13 am

She looks more like a Tamaskan than a West Siberian Laika,but since Tamaskans are pretty rare she's probably just a husky or shepherd or a mix of both.
Exotic Wishlist: high content wolfdog or wolf,low to mid content wolfdog, Coyote, Coydog, Black-backed Jackal, New Guinea Singing Dog, Red Fox, Gray Fox, Mink, Raccoon, Coati,and Kinkajou.

Domestic Wishlist: dogs, cats, ferrets, donkey, mule
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Aeronothis
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby Aeronothis » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:26 am

oks I was just curious, the people I got her from are very misinformed, and I am sure there are complaints about them somewhere in this forum. I just wanted to at least save one from their clutches of bad breeding policies. I went through texx-tails for my research on the phenology, and as far as i could tell is that if she has any wolf at all she would be a low content to low-mid content depending on the next few months, your thoughts as a knowledgeable person?
Wife and I eventually want to start a Rescue for wolfdogs once we have around 20 acres, and work our way to being able to breed responsibly once we have our Veterinary degrees.
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caninesrock
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby caninesrock » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:31 am

There are other more knowlegable wolfdog people on here than me that can pitch in and give you a better idea of her content if she has any.

But if you want my opinion, she looks like a low or no content to me.

What is the name of the breeder/kennel you got her from?
Exotic Wishlist: high content wolfdog or wolf,low to mid content wolfdog, Coyote, Coydog, Black-backed Jackal, New Guinea Singing Dog, Red Fox, Gray Fox, Mink, Raccoon, Coati,and Kinkajou.

Domestic Wishlist: dogs, cats, ferrets, donkey, mule
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Aeronothis
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby Aeronothis » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:34 am

Sadly wolfhaven - spirit of the past. And for the record I dont agree with what the two ladies do there, and my wife an I did our research before going, we decided we wanted Fenris regardless.
Wife and I eventually want to start a Rescue for wolfdogs once we have around 20 acres, and work our way to being able to breed responsibly once we have our Veterinary degrees.
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caninesrock
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby caninesrock » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:44 am

Aeronothis wrote:Sadly wolfhaven - spirit of the past. And for the record I dont agree with what the two ladies do there, and my wife an I did our research before going, we decided we wanted Fenris regardless.

Are those the people that have that website that says wolves are felines and have cheesy Lion King music playing on the background of every page? :roll:

Why'd you choose to buy from them? I'm just curious, not trying to chastise you or anything.

It's good that you were able to rescue your dog from them by adopting her so she has a good life now.
Exotic Wishlist: high content wolfdog or wolf,low to mid content wolfdog, Coyote, Coydog, Black-backed Jackal, New Guinea Singing Dog, Red Fox, Gray Fox, Mink, Raccoon, Coati,and Kinkajou.

Domestic Wishlist: dogs, cats, ferrets, donkey, mule
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Aeronothis
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby Aeronothis » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:50 am

The answer to your first question is undoubtedly yes -hangs head in shame- my wife and I were unable to educate them in common sense or facts. As for the second question, well we hadnt discovered anyone else nearby Ft. Bliss, TX and since I am in the army I can't really drive too far away on my days off. And shortly afterwards they had a litter born. My wife and I quickly decided that she was adorable and so we went to go and see. Setting aside the bad conditions there and keeping up with how she had grown we grew too fond of her to pass up the opportunity so we snagged her anyways. Obviously I am only just getting to the tip of the iceberg in the wolf/wolfdog community that I have wanted to be a part of for years. But my wife an I are getting on the right track, by building bridges something I hope to accomplish here. My signature says the rest.
Wife and I eventually want to start a Rescue for wolfdogs once we have around 20 acres, and work our way to being able to breed responsibly once we have our Veterinary degrees.
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby Cindy23323 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:09 am

She's a low at best, wolfhaven spirit of the past is one of the worst misrepresenters out there, and a mill on top of that. Plus they are very much neglecting they're animals.
Sorry but purchasing any animal from these people is just keeping they're buisness going, not saving an animal.

Here are some pics. of animals at they're place, you will see animals looking like they're starved, it's filthy, the animals drinking out of holes in the ground, plus they're food just being thrown on the ground to eat which they're obviously not getting enough of, some of they're animals live on chains and teathers.

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Juska
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby Juska » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:51 pm

Aeronothis wrote:Obviously I am only just getting to the tip of the iceberg in the wolf/wolfdog community that I have wanted to be a part of for years. But my wife an I are getting on the right track, by building bridges something I hope to accomplish here. My signature says the rest.


I commend you for wanting to start a rescue, but I don't see why you'd want to breed more if you're going to be trying to re-home abandoned/unwanted ones too. Kinda defeating the purpose there.

I don't approve of buying from a mill at all. Mills need to be completely boycotted from sales so people stop doing it. The more you buy, the more they breed, and the cycle goes on.

That place looks deplorable.

From the apparent reputation these people have, I can say with an amount of certainty you didn't get a WSL. There's no way they're breeding anything like that. They're probably just getting extremely low content wolfdogs, and probably a few that have no wolf in them whatsoever.

On another note, what part of the military are you in? I assume Army or NG? :)
Pet parent of Emo the border collie mix, Conte the schnoodle and Namira the harlequin cat!
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Aeronothis
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby Aeronothis » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:32 pm

@Cindy well I will apologize for keeping the business going, My wife and I tried to show them the error of their ways but they are old and do not listen. With that said I couldn't let go of the idea of having Fenris added to my family, the content of wolf in her is a mere curiosity at this point. I have her in my life and she is a beautifully stubborn puppy and that is what matters to me.
@Juska I am in the Active Duty Army for another 20 months, and my wife is in college to get a vet tech degree for the moment. As for the breeding it would only be very seldom and probably not for wolfdogs. My wife and I are looking to get into rescuing and keeping other small exocitcs and domestics, while keeping a vet clinic going to help out our community.
Wife and I eventually want to start a Rescue for wolfdogs once we have around 20 acres, and work our way to being able to breed responsibly once we have our Veterinary degrees.
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby sarajeku » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:21 pm

I have nothing against responsible breeders, so if you decide to breed, and you take all the necessary precautions to be a responsible breeder, then fine, go for it. However, once you've started rescuing, you'll probably decide never to breed another dog ever again. You'll see some horrific cases of abuse (which might make you hate people). You'll see homeless, wonderful animals that shouldn't be homeless. You'll see just how many animals need homes without adding more to the population.
I always wanted to breed wolfdogs until I started working at a wolfdog rescue. Now, all of my animals are spayed or neutered. Except my puppy, who has an appointment to be neutered in 2 weeks.
I really don't think it's possible to both truly rescue, and breed. Not if you really understand just how many homeless animals there are. Add to that, many shelters won't adopt out a wolfdog to the general public, but will only allow a rescue to pull them in order to save them from euthanasia. The shelters (here at least) consider wolfdogs "wild animals" so if someone brings in any animal and even calls it a wolfdog, then the shelter will either euthanize it, or (hopefully) contact a rescue. Wolf Run has a full blooded sable colored german shepherd that someone called a wolfdog when they dropped him off at a shelter, and he was scheduled to be euthanized before he came to the refuge.

Echo, my rescued wolfdog, was 6 weeks old when I adopted him from the same rescue I work for. He's a low content wolfdog, but had he gone to a shelter instead of Wolf Run, he wouldn't have been adoptable, despite being an adorable puppy.
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby Aeronothis » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:31 pm

You do bring up alot of good points, and my wife agrees with you. We ourselves have seen some animals in pretty bad shape that were nothing but wonderful to us. I dunno I really only want to breed so that I can share the joys of my family of animals with others. Just like I want to rescue the animals who never got to experience the love and affection a family should provide. Breeding was always a secondary and an afterthought, so like you said once I have some experience running a rescue I may not want to breed at all. I appreciate the advice ^.^
Wife and I eventually want to start a Rescue for wolfdogs once we have around 20 acres, and work our way to being able to breed responsibly once we have our Veterinary degrees.
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:37 pm

There are actually a lot of pure breed dog owners that both rescue and breed. The rescues are almost never to standard, well bred dogs. One reason being they are worth a lot more money than the not well bred ones so could be sold for a decent amount if they choose to ignore the return to breeder contracts. Unless they are really old taking a quality pure bred to a shelter is throwing money in the gutter. Even people who don't think much of animals don't like to do that.

The good breeders could stop breeding their dogs but it's not their dogs that are the problem, or their buyers. They could all quit breeding but there would be no less dogs needing homes as there would still be plenty of BYBs and PMs and probably more would pop up to meet the demand left by the good breeders quitting. Why stop doing the right thing when it's people doing the wrong thing that cause the problem?
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Aeronothis
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby Aeronothis » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:58 pm

I can also see your point of view tamandua (and beautiful anteaters? I had never thought of having one in my family quite unique) in the end I also want to educate people most of all while I am a vet to help others understand what these animals can provide you if you provide for them as a responsible owner. I have seen so many treated like pets, you can raise an animal like a pet to me its just so impersonal. They should be raise like family, as a child of your if you will. And there just isnt enough accurate public information and education out there. >.< I dunno I want to be able to do it all.
Wife and I eventually want to start a Rescue for wolfdogs once we have around 20 acres, and work our way to being able to breed responsibly once we have our Veterinary degrees.
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Re: Western Siberian Laika or Wolfdog?

Postby sarajeku » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:07 pm

Why stop doing the right thing when it's people doing the wrong thing that cause the problem?


If you'll notice, my first sentence was "I have nothing against responsible breeders." There are a few responsible wolfdog breeders out there that I really admire, and would even buy puppies from. Scott Soto and Mace Loftus are two of them.

But working in rescue has made me cynical. Especially regarding people. I have seen enough abuse and homeless animals to last a lifetime. I wouldn't be breeding any of my animals, even if I did buy from one, or both of those breeders.
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