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Coydogs

Wolf hybrids or other exotic species crossed with domestic

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ucrjedi
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Re: Coydogs

Postby ucrjedi » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:00 pm

RabbleFox, I don't know why everyone here is so happy about your idea but I'm honestly not. First off, a coyote mix isn't going to do what you want 99% of the time. They aren't biddable and tend to be scared of everything. While I admit that mine is super athletic and would make an insanely good competitor, it would be hard to make sure that she or any specific coydog obeyed commands in front of a large number of people. Coydogs usually don't have the temperament of a domestic dog so you can't expect obedience. You should honestly get a dog because your expectations are super high and chances are that you will be very disappointed with a coydog. It sounds to me that you have no idea what wild animals or mixes are like. Wild and semi wild animals aren't there to please you or anybody else. I'm not trying to offend you so please don't take it personally. Below is my unofficial coydog which I got by accident.
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Alynn
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Re: Coydogs

Postby Alynn » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:51 pm

ucrjedi wrote:RabbleFox, I don't know why everyone here is so happy about your idea but I'm honestly not. First off, a coyote mix isn't going to do what you want 99% of the time. They aren't biddable and tend to be scared of everything. While I admit that mine is super athletic and would make an insanely good competitor, it would be hard to make sure that she or any specific coydog obeyed commands in front of a large number of people. Coydogs usually don't have the temperament of a domestic dog so you can't expect obedience. You should honestly get a dog because your expectations are super high and chances are that you will be very disappointed with a coydog. It sounds to me that you have no idea what wild animals or mixes are like. Wild and semi wild animals aren't there to please you or anybody else. I'm not trying to offend you so please don't take it personally. Below is my unofficial coydog which I got by accident.


Not a fair assessment. I know RabbleFox well personally and I know that she is not going to jump into a commitment lightly. She's shown herself to be very knowledgeable about the expectations of less-than-domesticated animals - there's a reason she admins a pet fox group with me despite not having a pet fox, is that she is a very knowledgeable person and is able to be blunt with people about what they can expect from a fox, a similarly wild animal to a coyote.

She also has two dogs in her care and has experience working with dogs in trained events - i.e. barn hunt - she's not a brand new dog owner just jumping into getting a coydog.

I also don't think it's fair for you to make remarks about a coydogs behavior when your experience is with one (possible) coydog that was gotten at a somewhat older age than most pups, and it's not certain if she is a coydog.

People have been successful in getting coydogs to work - there's a breeder in Canada that crosses her coyotes with border collies - she and the people who have gotten pups from her have been able to work them pretty well. I believe she herself has trained her full blooded coyotes enough for film work.
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Re: Coydogs

Postby RabbleFox » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:27 pm

Alynn wrote:
ucrjedi wrote:RabbleFox, I don't know why everyone here is so happy about your idea but I'm honestly not. First off, a coyote mix isn't going to do what you want 99% of the time. They aren't biddable and tend to be scared of everything. While I admit that mine is super athletic and would make an insanely good competitor, it would be hard to make sure that she or any specific coydog obeyed commands in front of a large number of people. Coydogs usually don't have the temperament of a domestic dog so you can't expect obedience. You should honestly get a dog because your expectations are super high and chances are that you will be very disappointed with a coydog. It sounds to me that you have no idea what wild animals or mixes are like. Wild and semi wild animals aren't there to please you or anybody else. I'm not trying to offend you so please don't take it personally. Below is my unofficial coydog which I got by accident.


Not a fair assessment. I know RabbleFox well personally and I know that she is not going to jump into a commitment lightly. She's shown herself to be very knowledgeable about the expectations of less-than-domesticated animals - there's a reason she admins a pet fox group with me despite not having a pet fox, is that she is a very knowledgeable person and is able to be blunt with people about what they can expect from a fox, a similarly wild animal to a coyote.

She also has two dogs in her care and has experience working with dogs in trained events - i.e. barn hunt - she's not a brand new dog owner just jumping into getting a coydog.

I also don't think it's fair for you to make remarks about a coydogs behavior when your experience is with one (possible) coydog that was gotten at a somewhat older age than most pups, and it's not certain if she is a coydog.

People have been successful in getting coydogs to work - there's a breeder in Canada that crosses her coyotes with border collies - she and the people who have gotten pups from her have been able to work them pretty well. I believe she herself has trained her full blooded coyotes enough for film work.


Thank you for your kind words, Alynn.

The coydog breeder in Canada actually has been selling F2 coydog pups, from my understanding. I haven't spoken to the breeder myself, but I've heard word that her bitch is a coydog too. I believe she is a high content husky/coyote. She's the coydog that does a lot of film work. The F2 puppies who are born with that pretty caramel color are also trained and used in film work. I would be producing F1 pups, a 50/50 mix.

UCRJedi, I am not sure what leads you to believe the dog you posted is indeed a coydog. She doesn't appear to have any noticeable coyote traits. I recognize that the crosses I produce may not turn out to be as I intended but that is why I am not going into this immediately. I will do my best to select the best sire coyote (based on a health and overall friendliness) and best bitch (of whatever breed I choose). The pups will be homed to people who are both willing to work their pup and also provide him/her with a permanent home. A permanent home is one who will keep the coydog even if he/she doesn't turn out to have working potential. I will always be available to take pups back and keep them or rehome them. It's my personal policy to stand by the dogs I own and bring into this world.

There is a lot of research going into this potential cross. Thank you for your post as it is always good to have a reminder that things may not work out the way we hope.
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Alynn
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Re: Coydogs

Postby Alynn » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:20 pm

I stand corrected on the full blooded yotes being trained enough for film work, lol. I couldn't remember exactly what animals she had working in film.
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Re: Coydogs

Postby BlueBaby1023 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:30 pm

Although I'm a long way away from ever being interested in a hybrid dog, I'd be interested in a coydog at some point in the future if they work well for you RabbleFox. :) Not for agility, but based on the way our farm planning is going we are going to need a good working dog or two for the livestock when we expand (once we move out of Florida, I think).
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Re: Coydogs

Postby RabbleFox » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:03 pm

BlueBaby1023 wrote:Although I'm a long way away from ever being interested in a hybrid dog, I'd be interested in a coydog at some point in the future if they work well for you RabbleFox. :) Not for agility, but based on the way our farm planning is going we are going to need a good working dog or two for the livestock when we expand (once we move out of Florida, I think).


Yay! I would love to sell to you in the future. :) I'm hoping that the pups retain strong herding instincts while also maintaining extreme hardiness and overall agility. If I can swing that, they would be great farm work dogs. The first cross (F1) will probably be too coyote to be reliable farm dogs, but the second cross (F2) "should be" right up your alley!
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Re: Coydogs

Postby BlueBaby1023 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:37 pm

RabbleFox wrote:
BlueBaby1023 wrote:Although I'm a long way away from ever being interested in a hybrid dog, I'd be interested in a coydog at some point in the future if they work well for you RabbleFox. :) Not for agility, but based on the way our farm planning is going we are going to need a good working dog or two for the livestock when we expand (once we move out of Florida, I think).


Yay! I would love to sell to you in the future. :) I'm hoping that the pups retain strong herding instincts while also maintaining extreme hardiness and overall agility. If I can swing that, they would be great farm work dogs. The first cross (F1) will probably be too coyote to be reliable farm dogs, but the second cross (F2) "should be" right up your alley!


That sounds like a good plan. I figure most dogs that are good at agility would make good working dogs, since we have the guardian dog front covered (I'm a tad bit obsessed with Tibetan Mastiffs :lol: ). I do hope that your plan works out, and I'll be keeping my eyes on it in the coming years. :)
4 Fancy Rats
2 American Guinea Pigs
1 Holland Lop Rabbit
1 Rex Rabbit
2 Ferrets
1 Lutino Cockatiel
5 Mixed Breed Cats
1 PitxLab
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1 Greyhound
2 Great PyrxAnatolian Shepherds
2 Red Foxes
5 Goats
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caninesrock
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Re: Coydogs

Postby caninesrock » Sun May 29, 2016 8:24 pm

I wish Sundance still exsisted. Their website had some beautiful coydogs on it. I also read somewhere that their animals were crosses with coyotes and siberian huskies. I still have some pics I saved of a few of the dogs before the website was taken down:

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This gorgeous dog is my avatar at the moment. I wish I could've had a dog that looked like him:
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Also here is the archive.org of their site:
http://web.archive.org/web/201207070832 ... coydog.us/

or an even older version of the site that has pictures of the coydogs listed by content:
http://web.archive.org/web/200406042055 ... coydog.us/

Now Wildside is the only reputable breeders of coydogs I know of that still exsists and they breed to border collies which honestly aren't really coyote-looking.

http://www.coydog.ca/#

Though they do have one dog that looks vaguely coyote-like in some pictures:
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But not so much in other pictures of the same dog:
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However, there are rumors, though never proven or admitted, that the American Indian Dogs being sold by Song Dog Kennels (not to be confused with the very different Native American Indian Dog breed which is sold by another completely different kennel and are rumored to be part wolf), are part coyote.

http://www.indiandogs.com/

http://www.iidoba.org/forums/

Here are some of the more unique looking American Indian Dogs:
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Of course, AID might not be part coyote at all, but either way, they are gorgeous and I still want one. If they don't have coyote, they are still a gorgeous vaguely coyote-like dog and if they do have low-contents of coyote in them, well that would just be an added bonus to me to have a dog that's part coyote.

Speaking of, does anyone know if there is a DNA test to check if a dog is part coyote? I know there is one to check for wolf content and one to identify breeds that make up a mixed breed, but I'm not sure on if there is one that looks for coyote genes.
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Re: Coydogs

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun May 29, 2016 8:31 pm

This grey one is gorgeous
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And yeah I don't know why the current breeder uses collies. For places where they might not be allowed hybrids it might be good as they could have it and no one would guess from looks it's a hybrid, not that that would be good to do but only real benefit is if you didn't want anyone to know, but most want the looks too.
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Re: Coydogs

Postby caninesrock » Sun May 29, 2016 8:56 pm

The grey one is a mid-content according to the archive of their site. So, she really is very coyote-like. :)

As for the breeder with the border collies, she mentions something about trainability and how she uses her dogs for both agility and in movies as roles as coyotes, sometimes having to add make-up though to make them look more wild/coyote-like. That may be why the first pic of the dog named "Loca" according to the site looks so coyote like as it states that was taken on a film set where as the second picture is of the dog in her natural appearance as she wasn't on a film set at the time. Still, it would be nice to have a coydog that you didn't have to put make-up on to make look like a coyote though. :/
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Re: Coydogs

Postby ucrjedi » Sun May 29, 2016 9:18 pm

This is Acacia at almost 5 years of age. She's become a lot mellower but still very skittish. People that meet her still think that she's wolf or coyote. Does this photo hint at her being a coyote mix?
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Re: Coydogs

Postby caninesrock » Sun May 29, 2016 9:40 pm

It's hard to tell from the angle of the picture. Really, the face would be the best way for me to tell personally, but the body as well. A recent standing picture of her would be ideal I think. Though, the pic you posted a while back of her laying in the bed definitely looks less kelpie like than the older pics you posted when she was younger. I can see how the body and face maybe looks slightly coyote-like. But then shepherds and shepherd mixes can also have similiar body structures and face shapes. If you really want to know for sure though, I think maybe you can get a dna test to check for it. I know there's one to check for wolf blood, but I'm not sure if there is one to check for coyote blood. Regardless, I think even if she does have some coyote, she would be a low content as she looks more doggy, but I can see some features that are vaguely coyote-like, but again, many of those features can also be found in domestic breeds, especially in some of the leaner shepherd breeds, like Belgian Malinois for example.

Even if she does turn out to be 100% pure dog though, that doesn't mean that she isn't special/unique. Animals don't have to exotic or part exotic to be special. Though I love wild canids, I love domestic canines just as much and so do many others. She's a gorgeous animal regardless. :)
Exotic Wishlist: high content wolfdog or wolf,low to mid content wolfdog, Coyote, Coydog, Black-backed Jackal, New Guinea Singing Dog, Red Fox, Gray Fox, Mink, Raccoon, Coati,and Kinkajou.

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Re: Coydogs

Postby Ash » Tue May 31, 2016 1:58 pm

Caninesrock, are dog hybrids legal in Texas?
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Re: Coydogs

Postby caninesrock » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:25 am

Ash wrote:Caninesrock, are dog hybrids legal in Texas?

Wolfdogs are 100% legal (assuming one has the proper permits and set-up). I'm not 100% sure on coydogs, but so far, I've only found a statement in the laws about a prohibit of selling or breeding coyotes in captivity and a prohibit of importing them in from other states. I believe there is also some kind of ban on keeping them in captivity as well unless AZA do to rabies risk since they are considered a fur-bearing species here and to Texas, "furbearing" seems to equal rabies for some reason. :wall:

I know when I use to volunteer at the wildlife rehab center, they weren't allowed to take in coyotes,, atleast not without getting approval first from the state on a case-by-case basis, though I never saw a coyote while I was there. They never had raccoons either and think it may have been the same case with them since they are affected by the same fur-bearing animals law.

However, the law seems to make no mention of coydogs or coyote hybrids of any kind either. So, theoretically, if anyone actually bred coydogs, I believe it would be legal for me to have one here since it isn't a full coyote. Kind of like the wolfdog people get away with having high content wolfdogs since wolf "hybrids" (though techincally wolfdogs aren't hybrids since wolves and dogs are the same species) aren't mentioned in laws that ban ownership of pure wolves in some states. So, if I could find a breeder that still exsist who bred mid or even high-content coydogs, I believe I could have one as long as I had proof that it wasn't a pure coyote.

As for other kinds of hybrids, like hybrids between jackals, dingoes, etc., I don't believe there are any laws that mention them at all, but I could be wrong.
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Re: Coydogs

Postby Ash » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:54 pm

Yeah, if there truly is no mention about banning coyote hybrids, then they would be legal.
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