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Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Wolf hybrids or other exotic species crossed with domestic

Moderators: Ash, TamanduaGirl

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caninesrock
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:59 am
Location: Texas

Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby caninesrock » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:30 pm

The Tamaskan Dog is supposedly supposed to be a breed bred to look like a wolf,but that has no wolf in. The rumors around the breed in both the Tamaskan breeders, (who claim there is neither wolf hybrid nor even Czech Wolfdog content in their breed and their dogs are health tested), Czech Wolfdog owners, and Aatu Tamaskan breeders are overwhelming. TDR(Tamaskan Dog Breeders) also claim that the Aatu breeders lie about them and created their own breed because the Aatu breeders were kicked out for horrible kennel conditions, bad health of their dogs, and/or wanting to breed Czech wolfdogs or wolfdog "hybrids" to their purebred Tamaskans to give it a more wolfy look.Aatu Tamaskan breeders claim that they were kicked out for spreading the truth that the Tamaskan Dog already had not only Czech wolfdog in the breed but atleast one high content wolfdog "hybrid" in it and that the creator of the original Tamaskan had horrible health records of her dogs and falsified pedigrees of founding dogs as well as health records. To further add confusion, the Czech Wolfdog/Vlack community claims that Tamaskan breeders asked for use of their dogs as studs. Some of the members say that it was probably the Aatu Tamaskan breeders that asked for studs,while others maintain that they believe it was the breeders of the original Tamaskans that asked for stud. All of this is making my head spin. I don't who to believe. I need an outside source to ask. I know you guys might not know the history of all this mess,but I'm hoping you guys can help me identify whether my suspicions about a certain so-called black German Shepard mix named Taz actually being a mid-content wolfdog are true.

Here are qoutes from all three groups:
http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=426
Official Tamaskan Group TDR:
think in the arctic breeds in particular there will prob be wolf content hidden away. That is why many huskies and mals resemble wolves and how the Tamaskan can be bred to look so close to the wolf without adding in any pure wolf.
I am sure there will be wolf in the Tamaskan somewhere in its past, it wouldn't be a dog otherwise and perhaps there is more wolf in the GSD and Tamaskan than in a Chihuahua but that does not make them wolf hybrids.

Notice the creator of the breed says that their is no pure wolf in the Tamaskan as well as that there may be wolf in the breed in the past, which implies that she may be hiding wolfdog "hybrids" she used to create the breed.

And here's my conversation with them concerning the dog Taz pictured here:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... permPage=1
Image
and here:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... permPage=1
Image

Here in this topic:
http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic ... 0&start=20

Me:
What breeds are these guys?
(I put a whole bunch of links,two of which linked to Taz.)


Another Member:
Link 6 & 7 - Taz - He should be mainly German Shepherd Dog. He is Tumanras grandfather and where the black colour comes from, he is BEFORE the Tamaskan breed though


Me:
Are you guys sure Taz didn't have some wolf in him? Since it was before the Tamaskan breed, I know it wouldn't be you guys fault if he did,but he looks like a midcontent wolfdog, not a german shepard mix. I've never seen a German Shepard that looked that much like a wolf before.


Another Member:
i don't think lynn owned taz (going from memory, haven't worked out how to open new tabs on mobile yet), but i don't see no wolf. looks wolf-y but not wolf-dog-ish. looks basic GSD from back in the good ole' REAL GSD days before they got 'broken' and the breed standard went freakishly wrong where they learned to walk sat down :( ... can't tell too much just by pictures tho, look at how many 'wolfdog' pictures turned out to be tamaskan pictures ;)


Yet this is what the old style German Shepard looked like in the other threads,which is still not as wolfy as Taz:
http://selah1.homestead.com/largeoldfas ... ppies.html
http://selah1.homestead.com/shadowtrot.jpg
http://www.briarwoodshepherds.com/adults.asp
http://www.briarwoodshepherds.com/photos_2.asp?Go=28
Image
Another Member
He looks very GSD to me. I think the first pic makes him look more wolfish because of the angle and how his head is positioned.


Another Member(founder of the breed):
No I didnt own Taz but do know him, or at least did because he is now dead (old age) He definately dosnt have wolf in him. He was a cross GSD.
Photos can be very deceiving depending on the angles. I have many pictures
of him and in some you would swear he was a wolf particularly the ones taken
in a pond

She says in one sentence that he definitely wasn't part wolf yet in others that he looked so much like a wolf that she'd mistake him for one.

Claims on the Aatu Tamaskan:
"Aatu Tamaskan" have been a thorn in the side of the true Tamaskan for a few months now and discussion regarding them has been heated. This new thread is designed to limit conversation to only the facts about the breeds and to correct any wrong information that they display on their websites, which are many. For instance, the no-wolf-fable website states that the original Tamaskan contains high wolf content. This is absolutely false.

Below (in bullet form) is a list of the true facts, which can be backed up with documentation. This topic has been locked to prevent further controversy and we kindly ask that it not be discussed elsewhere on the forum. We wish to keep this forum friendly and non-political to the best of our abilities.

If anyone has a new fact that they believe should be shared with other forum members then please email that information to an administrator who can then place it on this thread if it does indeed belong here.



FACTS:

• The no-wolf-fable website(s) that continue to appear on the internet are full of false information. The Tamaskan Dog has NO amount of recent wolf content whatsoever and all information on those sites is fabricated and/or guess work designed to encourage people away from the true Tamaskan.
• The Aatu breeders are individuals who were once part of the Tamaskan Dog Register. They have taken their pure Tamaskan and chosen to mix in other breeds to create a new breed.
• It has been proven that they are searching among the Czech Wolfdog and Saarloos breeders for their new breeding stock and have purchased a Utonagan. The reason they have done this, instead of staying with the true Tamaskan, is purely political and nothing to do with the health or appearance of the true Tamaskan as they state on their websites. This, again, is to encourage people away from the original Tamaskan to their new crossbreed instead.
• Most Aatu breeders were given multiple warnings from the TDR for their behavior and conduct, and one Scottish breeder was under investigation for falsifying paperwork before she left and started up the Aatu. The two founders of the Tamaskan Dog breed, along with other important TDR breeders, had denied all of them puppies and they were generally unwelcome in Tamaskan circles.
• The Aatu breeders are using pictures of pure original Tamaskans (belonging to other TDR-registered breeders) in order to promote their own breed. After respectfully asking for the removal of these pictures, our request was denied... unless the owner of the photographs agreed to pay a substantial fee to the Aatu’s web designer for the removal!
• Of the three Aatu breeders who started the "Tamaskan Breeders Association" ALL have no experience when dealing with a new breed of dog, two had NEVER bred a litter of Tamaskan before, and one had never bred a litter of any description!
• Aatu breeders have deliberately sought out conflict with pure Tamaskan breeders, writing hurtful things on their websites without proof and trolling many dog forums to spread lies and rumors about true Tamaskan breeders. One even went so far as to insinuate that a respected TDR breeder culls puppies at birth if they do not fit the breed standard! This was shocking and outrageous lie was written on one of the Aatu breeders own personal website!
• The same aforementioned breeder in Scotland was found guilty of: falsifying pedigrees so that puppies of dogs without hip scores could be registered, hiding genetic health issues within her lines from the TDR, and sometimes not handing out breeding contracts or registration documents to new puppy owners. She was under investigation for these issues (as well as the filthy condition of her kennel area) when she left to create her own breed, away from the strict regulations of the TDR. The Aatu Group were only too happy to welcome her to their club.
• The first USA litter of Aatu Tamaskans produced a piebald puppy (white with patches) leading to speculation that the breeder had lied about the puppy's parentage, as piebalds have NEVER been seen in the true Tamaskan breed before. This is suspicious but has not been proven by DNA analysis.



Although we do not wish to stoop to the level of the Aatu breeders, and start pointing fingers at their breeding practices, we believe there are important facts about "Aatu" Tamaskans of which the general public should be aware:

• Blustag Onager at Conchur (aka Mikko) is a monorchid dog (a genetic condition resulting in one undescended testicle). So far he has been used at stud twice but has failed to produce a litter. He is a foundation dog for the Aatu breed and is currently advertised at stud.
• Alba Sumarlidl is the daughter of a female who died from epilepsy, which of course is genetic (the TDR has removed all progeny of the known carriers). She is a foundation dog for the Aatu breed and is currently producing litters.
• Alba Dakari at Ta-Kari is the grandson of a female who died from epilepsy (the TDR has removed all progeny of the known carriers.) He is a foundation dog for the Aatu and is currently producing litters.
• The above dog (Dakari) was bred from underage and has produced a litter of puppies (including the piebald mentioned in the earlier section) with Takeia (mentioned below), it is possible that some or all of these puppies are carriers of epilepsy, poor hips, and/or Addison's disease.
• J&J Moonlight Takeia at Ta-Kari is from the same disastrous litter that produced two dogs with failing hip scores, two dogs with Addison's disease, a puppy with cataracts, and a dog who recently died from renal failure. The parents of these dogs have been removed from the TDR breeding program, as have all their offspring. She is a foundation dog for the Aatu and is currently producing litters.
• The TDR has a health database where ALL health issues are made known to the public. We do not, and have not, hidden any health issues within our breed. The Aatu breed has no such system.


In the Tamaskan Dog Register's opinion, the Aatu is not a breed of dog but, rather, a collection of crossbreeds and any puppies produced should not be called Tamaskan... or have Tamaskan anywhere in their name!

In the TDR breeding and puppy contract it states that puppies should not be known by any other name than Tamaskan Dog so the Aatu people are in breach of a legal contract by continuing to use alternative names for their purebred Tamaskan Dogs. If the Aatu breeders had left and chosen another name without the word Tamaskan in it, and not spread rumors in an attempt to discredit the original Tamaskan breed, then we would have had much less of an issue with them. As it is, people will see the name Tamaskan and become confused about the differences when the Aatu starts to suffer with health issues, which is inevitable due to their foundation dog breeding stock. The original Tamaskan Dog does not wish to become tarnished with the same brush.

The TDR wish people to understand that the Aatu has absolutely nothing to do with the true and pure TDR-registered Tamaskan Dogs. Their look will not be the same as ours, their health will not be the same, and I am certain our ethics will far surpass theirs in every sense.

Thank you for taking the time to read this information and if you need more information (or would like to make a comment on what is written here) then feel free to send a private message to either myself or another administrator.

Jennifer Peacock
TDR Secretary


According to this site(supposedly made by Right Puppy Kennels, a puppy mill, according to the TDR):
Tamaskans are a rare breed especially with only a few registered breeders in the United States of America. The cost of importing a puppy is even more costly due to shipping prices. In either event, purchasing a Tamaskan is quite a financial commitment. Therefore, before you put a buy a Tamaskan puppy, please make sure you are working with a reputable registered breeder. Registered breeders are listed on the Tamaskan Club of America (TCA) website and the Tamaskan Breeders Association (TBA) website. The TCA is the official registry of the American Tamaskan and the Tamaskan Breeders Association (TBA) is the official registry of the Aatu Tamaskan. Beware of backyard breeders.

Please be aware that there is a hobby/backyard breeder who is selling mixed breed puppies claiming they are Tamaskans/American Tamaskans (and/or Tamaskan Dogs). When formally asked to "cease and desist" selling these puppies as supposedly registered Tamaskans, the Tamaskan Club of America (TCA) was told that they would set up his own registry. The Tamaskan Club of America is a bona fide international organization and the only organization that recognizes purebred American Tamaskans based on their pedigree and DNA testing. The Tamaskan Club of America also maintains breeding records on litters produced, tracks breed history and maintains a health database to track the health and development of the breed. Please visit the website http://www.TamaskanDog.com for more information. To further add to the deception, they attempted to copy our domain name and are using http://www.Tamaskan-Dog.com (note the added hyphen). An official dog registry is more than just a place to advertise puppies that are for sale.

This hobby breeder has also advertised that his Tamaskan/Tamaskan Dog puppies are "Championship" quality. In order for a puppy to be legitimately classified as "championship quality", it must be evaluated and judged by outside experts to determine that it conforms to the breed standard. As a new breed, the American Tamaskan is not yet recognized by the AKC, UKC or CKC. Therefore, showing a dog to Championship is not possible. While Club recognition is a goal of the TCA, at this point the breed is too young and the number of American Tamaskans in the United States is too small.

After exhausting all other avenues, the TCA filed formal complaints to the Elizabeth City NC Better Business Bureau, the North Carolina Attorney General's Office and the Federal Trade Commission. We have asked for this backyard breeder to stop these deliberately deceptive advertising practices and have encouraged them to simply advertise his puppies with honesty and integrity. In response, they have opted to "create" their own breed, which they are calling the "Tamaskan Dog". This is particularly sad, especially for people interested in a purebred American Tamaskan, as these Tamaskan Dogs are simply Tamaskan x Utonagan mixes; don't get deceived!

This becomes even more evident as you read through his breed history, which was copied (without permission) from the TCA and apparently Wikipedia. (Please note: Generally breeders do not go to Wikipedia to develop their breed history, but rather develop their standard in the course of developing their new breed.) They provide no explanation, nor do they document, how their breeding practices have contributed to the new breed or why a new breed was supposedly developed. They are simply using the Tamaskan name to confuse the public in order to sell mix breed dogs as a rare purebred. This is very sad. We wish that they would stop.

To assist your search for a registered purebred American Tamaskan puppy, we offer the information below. Please do not hesitate to contact the Tamaskan Club of America at http://www.TamaskanDog.com or any of the registered breeders listed on either of those sites should you need advice or assistance.


Tamaskan Organizations
At present, there are 3 main organizations representing the Tamaskan breed.
1. The Tamaskan Dog Register (TDR - http://www.Tamaskan-Dog.com)
Lynn Sharkey/Hardey and her daughter Jennie Peacock formed the Tamaskan Dog Register (TDR). Their Tamaskans are officially called "Tamaskan Dogs". The following passage was taken directly from their website: "The Tamaskan Dog Register (TDR) consists of an international committee and is the official Governing Body for all Tamaskan Dogs worldwide." According to the TDR, any dog not registered with their organization is not a "True" Tamaskan. Even when a dog was purchased with complete TDR registration, they have the option of de-registering any Tamaskan at any time. Since they are the governing body, the two ladies decide which dogs are Tamaskan Dogs and which are not.

This governing body is still primarily Lynn (Blustag) and her daughter Jennie (Blufawn). The TDR is predominantly run by Lynn Sharkey/Hardey (Chairman), and her daughter Jennie (Secretary and Breed Historian). While there are a few TDR committee members, they are selected/deselected and consulted/ignored at the whim of this mother-daughter combo. The TDR is an independent body with no Board of Directors and a hand picked Committee. In other words, there is no oversight of their activities or practices.

Since this mother-daughter team decides who is a member and who is banned it became necessary for other governing bodies to be created. This link provides a very clear example of their absolute power in action: Tamaskan Dog Showing Club


2. The Tamaskan Club of America (TCA - http://www.Tamaskan.com)
Kevin Settineri owner of RightPuppy Inc. formed the Tamaskan Club of America in early 2007. Their Tamaskans are officially called "American Tamaskans". The following passage was taken directly from their website: We have the distinguished honor of being the official registration body for the American Tamaskan Worldwide. Mr. Settineri's three foundation dogs were fully registered TDR Tamaskan Dogs with registration certificates and official pedigrees. RightPuppy used 10 pure TDR Tamaskan Dogs as the principals of his foundation stock.

According to the information presented to TamaskanTruth, approximately 91% of all Tamaskans in the United States as of 2011 fall under the Tamaskan Club of America's "American Tamaskan".

According the RightPuppy, Inc. "After complying with all rules and regulations set forth by the National Tamaskan Club of America and the Tamaskan Dog register since 2006, the governing body of the TDR (Lynn and her daughter Jennie) decided to revoke RightPuppy's membership and de-register his 3 adult foundation dogs and his 7 young female Tamaskan puppies." To this day, the TDR claims that all TCA Tamaskans are not "TRUE" Tamaskans; pure nonsense.

According to information taken directly from the TDR website, Kevin broke his breeder's contract; no specificity given. Mr. Settineri was told that his dogs are no longer Tamaskans, that he could not register either of two litters that were the from fully registered TDR Tamaskans, and that he would never be sold another Tamaskans. Period. No appeals process was offered. No specific explanation regarding the breach of contract.

After contacting the TCA, this is what we learned: RightPuppy had two simultaneous litters of Tamaskan puppies in late 2006. A litter of ten puppies and a litter of eight. Five other Tamaskan breeders who were located in the United States eagerly lined up to purchase pure TDR registered Tamaskans puppies from RightPuppy located in North Carolina. Having a domestically bred puppies would have saved several hundred dollars in international puppy shipping fees. According to the NTCA breeder's contract, RightPuppy reserved the final right of refusal to sell to the other US Tamaskan breeders or not. RightPuppy thought that it was best for the breed for the other breeders to get unrelated Tamaskan bloodlines from oversea into their breeding programs so that no eventual inbreeding would take place. RightPuppy decided to keep 7 of the Tamaskan females from the two litters to add to his own breeding program.

30 minutes after RightPuppy exercised his right of refusal to sell to his direct competition, he was formally banned from the TDR and the NTCA and his dogs were formally de-registered. Why put a clause in a contract if it cannot be exercised without being banned? Apparently, exercising a contract clause is defined as breaking a breeders contract by the TDR. This is a common tactic used by the mother daughter team when they ran the British and International Utonagan Society (BIUS). Do what they say or else!


3. The Tamaskan Breeders Association (TBA - http://www.TamaskanBreeders.com)
The TBA was initially created in February 2009 by Regina Skarzinskas, then President of the NTCA and member of the TDR from the US. It was created to provide support to breeders which was sorely lacking from the TDR breeders who exported dogs to many who had no experience in the area of breeding. When the TDR began to redefine the role of the NTCA, she resigned from the NTCA and focused her attention on breeder education. In August 2009, having discovered the range and extent of unethical practices of the primary founders of the UK Tamaskan Dog breed, she left the TDR. Two other TDR registered breeders who left the group based on the ethics and behavior of the TDR founders, joined together and founded the TBA as the registry for the Aatu Tamaskan. The Aatu is described as the American cousin of the UK Tamaskan Dog.

While the specific personal reasons for their resignations varied, the general consensus was that the personal ethics and moral character of the two remaining founders of the group (Blustag and Blufawn) were questionable at best, and that the TDR was not providing, and in all likelihood could not provide, what was needed for the UK Tamaskan Dog to survive and thrive in the US without significant improvements in a number of areas.

In August of 2009, two founding members of the Tamaskan Dog, as well two long-standing TDR registered UK Tamaskan Dog breeders, resigned from the UK group. [This was in addition to another founding member having resigned in June 2008.] While the specific personal reasons for their resignations varied, the general consensus was that the personal ethics and moral character of the two remaining founders of the group (Blustag and Blufawn) were questionable at best, and that the TDR was not providing, and in all likelihood could not provide, what was needed for the UK Tamaskan Dog to survive and thrive in the US without significant improvements in a number of areas.

Three of these breeders, Alba in Scotland, Conchur in Oregon and Ta-Kari in Colorado, banded together under the Tamaskan Breeders Association to introduce the Aatu Tamaskan. The following passage was taken directly from their website: "We are a group of dedicated breeders whose primary goal is the health and welfare of the Aatu Tamaskan breed."

Prior to these resignations, however, extensive research into the UK TDR Tamaskan Dog was undertaken and revealed that Blustag and Blufawn intentionally removed registered names and breeder kennels from the pedigrees, thereby presenting incomplete and inaccurate pedigree documents. The TBA believed that restoring the integrity of these pedigrees was paramount, and proceeded to research the true history of the origins of the UK TDR Tamaskan Dog. This research further showed that Blustag and Blufawn knowingly and intentionally disregarded health information presented to them which indicated significant health issues and genetic conditions within some of the UK TDR Tamaskan Dog lines.


Conclusion
It would seem that the founding governing body of the Tamaskan has forced the creation of 2 different North American based governing bodies (the TCA and the TBA) in addition to the NTCA. A combination of strong armed tactics, instantaneous de-registrations of registered Tamaskans, poor record keeping and questionable pedigree history lead to the current situation. The breed will survive under the different governing bodies. Each organization is producing the same basic Tamaskans with only minor differences. One positive commonality is that the genetic foundation for all of these Tamaskans is primarily the Utonagon.

It would be nice if all of these entities could co-exist in harmony. However, constant the onslaught of slander/defamation/libel from the TDR members based in Europe directed towards TCA and TBA members and breeders makes a harmonious co-existance extremely unlikely and/or impossible.


http://tamaskantruth.com/notice.php
http://tamaskantruth.com/rumor.php
http://tamaskantruth.com/organizations.php

And here are quotes from the Aatu breeders association:
http://www.tamaskanbreeders.com/History_update.html

And from one Aatu Breeder:
http://www.takari-tamaskans.com/id62.html
http://www.takari-tamaskans.com/id70.html
http://www.takari-tamaskans.com/id46.html
Why have we decided to keep “Tamaskan” in our breed name rather than just calling it an Aatu? [After all, the TDR simply renamed their existing Utonagan, wolfdog and Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs as Tamaskan; they expect us to do the same.]



Well, the decision to use Aatu Tamaskan has certainly made us the recipients of continued harassment, condemnation and malignment. But, we stand by the decision of the Aatu Tamaskan name. Personally, I feel if we were to use our Tamaskan foundation stock under a completely different name, it would be as if we were running from something or trying to hide from something. We have nothing to run from, hide or be ashamed of. Some of us have tried to work with the TDR for two years or more. The fact is that we will use our Tamaskans dogs as foundation stock for the Aatu Tamaskan, and we openly acknowledge that fact, as well as the breeders from where they came.



Most obvious to note (but easily ignored) is the fact that EVERY breed (even the mighty UK Tamaskan) had its beginnings from other breeds:



Czech Wolfdog: German Shepherd x Carpathian Wolf

Tamaskan Dog: Utonagan, Wolfdog and Czechoslovakian Wolfdog

Utonagan/Northern Inuit: Malamute, Husky and GSD

Sarloos: European wolf x GSD



Further, there are many Shepherd breeds, but they are not just called Australian, Alsatian, Swiss, Belgian, Bohemian, Anatolian, German, Shiloh, etc., etc. They are identified by their complete breed name (Belgian Shepherd, German Shepherd, Bohemian Shepherd, etc.). In many cases, it is an acknowledgment of the breeds from whence they came. [http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html]



Similarly, the Aatu Tamaskan is a separate and distinct breed that, within its name, recognizes where the breed began.



FACT: Did you know Belgian Shepherds come in four coat/color varieties (the Groenendael; the Tervuren; the Malinois; and the Laekenois? Yet, the American Kennel Club considers these varieties to be four separate breeds.



FACT: Did you know that the Australian Shepherd was initially called by many names, including Spanish Shepherd, New Mexican Shepherd, and California Shepherd?



We will keep Aatu Tamaskan name and enhance the breed through a selective process to make it more wolflike, with a focus on temperament and health. We are grateful that steps were taken to create the look of the Tamaskan that we fell in love with. Most importantly, our dogs will be presented factually and honestly in EVERY way. [We now have accurate pedigree and health histories to do so.]


Pedigree Misrepresentation by Tamaskan "Founders

update 8/2/10




As was already stated in the "Resignation" page, it was shortly after our resignation from the TDR that we were approached by those familiar with the wolfdogs obtained to add to the Tamaskan lines. Please visit http://the-no-wolf-tamaskan-fable.blogspot.com/ for complete information regarding this issue. [8/2/10 - The above site has been updated this date in view of the revelation of the use of Saarloos Wolfdog with an F2 wolfdog in July 2009.] Since the release of the Fable site, many have come to us to thank us for presenting information that they can rely on. While we realize that unless you have been involved with some time and are familiar with the lines, it can be confusing. In short, there are several high content wolfdogs being bred and sold as the "no wolf" Tamaskan Dog.



I'd like to share some comments received. You see, while the TDR maintains its tirade and campaign against those of us that resigned, and others who have simply chosen not to become affiliated with them, the public deserves and has the right to have reliable and documented information upon which to mull over and make an informed decision. And now, with DNA results, any doubt should be put to rest.



Received June 25, 2010 - I've just read your research about the Tamaskan dog and it has somehow made me change my mind. I was always a fan of wolves and I always wanted a dog resembling one. When I found out about the Tamaskan I was excited and seriously started thinking about getting one but then after I've read your article, which actually makes a lot of sense, I'm beginning to change my mind. The thing is that I am an inexperienced dog owner but I am really keen on trying to do my best if I ever aquire a dog. I've already started doing plenty of research about it, about socialization, training, the pack system and everything. The thing is though, I want to have a dog that resembles a wolf but not to have any of the dangerous aspects of wolf/hybrid owning. I've come accross the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog and from what I've read they are a recognised dog breed. But I guess that means they are more dog than wolf, while still having at least 20-30% wolf in them. Not that it concerns me, but I do have some questions and would really appreciate some serious advice if you can afford it. - M.Y. [Part of the response to this inquiry was just as is stated on the Fable site "Not ALL Tamaskan lines have wolfdog or Czech Wolfdog", and this party was advised of the wolfdog/CsV's being bred in the Tamaskan pedigree.]




Received June 24, 2010 - In reading the No Wolf Tamaskan Fable site, realizing the scope of all this was incredible and harrowing. With the photo album provided by the owner of Valko I browsed and found pictures of Henki, some of which were exactly the same as those on Blustag's site listed as Jodie, even today. With only the knowledge of Henki and Jodie being the same dog, everything else falls into place, which would mean that Valko must be Whitefang and Boogie and Blondie must be Ivan and Dixy, respectively. I'm glad that with the information that you provided I was able to find things out on my own, even before I read about them on the site links. I had always wondered why Jodie looked so wolfy whereas some of the other Tamaskans didn't in comparison. Now I know....Thank you. - C.W., California



Received June 11, 2010 - Hi there, I just wanted to drop you a quick email to say thank you for the hard work that obviously went into that website. [I] have owned a Tamaskan for 2.5yrs now. I was an *** Officer at the time and wanted a dog that would fit into living in the Officers' Mess alongside a hundred other people and dogs. I have always liked northern/arctic breeds but didn't want the high work rate that came with them. Having contacted Lynn I was assured that Tamaskans like Ute's and NI's were fantastically well tempered and of course very handsome. Much easier to live with than say a purebred husky.......which hasn't been the whole story. DOG had, much like your site says about CsV's a 'difficult' adolescence, which resulted in a lot of damage to furniture. We were unable to leave him alone until he reached 18 months. He did come to work with me every day but there are always days he needed to be left and this proved very difficult. So much for a consistent breed temperament and fore-warned is fore-armed etc...

From the very moment we went to pick up DOG, I was adamant that the woman was not to be trusted. Her house was an absolute tip. Not just doggy but well past normal. Too many dogs and all caged and howling in a tiny house. She herself was extremely aloof and couldn't get any facts about her dogs right. I had to tell her a few things she had put on the website. The website and (joke) of a pedigree showed DOG as being a Dingo - Susi puppy but she introduced us to two completely different dogs when we asked to see the parents. It also had conspicuous blanks where great grandparents should have been. She made us sign a laughable contract; which of course was the first time anything like this had been discussed. That is to say, we had just driven 6 hrs to be informed that we could only take the puppy if we signed a contract. This had not been discussed prior to our trip

Not being a complete idiot, I could tell it wasn't worth the paper it was written on. The same could be said of the pedigree. Lynn was of no use whatsoever and clearly continued to mix up lineage of our dog. A little investigation on my part then led me to believe that Dingo was in fact part CsV as was Susi (from the same dog in Finland). This was posted on a website by a Finnish man but the post was later removed from fear of legal action on Lynn's part. DOG looks exactly (I know this isn't an exact science but what else could I go on at this point) like I would believe a CsV/Husky to look like. The markings on his coat and the red are pure CsV. I love my dog to bits, was a little weary of his nature (which has proven to be very friendly and happy) and do not call him a Tamaskan. I tell the myriad of admirers that he is a Finnish Sled Dog instead. This is, I believe closer to the truth. Luckily, with a lot of hard work, exercise and training he has turned into a fantaastic dog.

We have had a few emails asking us to participate in Tamaskan events but I would rather pull my teeth out.
I do feel conned, I don't think Lynn has any idea about dog breeding whatsoever. I could not care less that she has been involved with dogs for forty years. She is clearly not the sort of person with the ability to create a new breed. It has been my belief for a long time that she has just been taking WolfDogs and CsV's and crossing them to make a Tamaskan. That's why I was so pleased to find your website and I'm COMPLETELY convinced with your conclusions. Her marketing is conning people. I have had a friend, tell me he is considering a Tamaskan recently, without knowing that I have one. She clearly stands to make a lot of money. Whilst, other far more honourable breeders are losing out. Finally, the chances of a Tamaskan hurting someone and thus MY DOG becoming less than reputable worries me. Sorry I have rambled on in no particular order but I'm annoyed with Lynn and very happy with your excellent work. Please keep it up.
Best Regards, M...., UK



Received January 20, 2010 -http://theutonagansociety.com/health According to TUS (Not sure if they are still active or not), Blustag has had several health issues pop up in there lines. Are they still using any of the same lines that once caused these health concerns? They are listed under Addison's Disease, Cryptorchidism, Epilepsy, and Von Willibrand's Disease. Not to mention, other lines such as Redkite and Sulin (known lines behind the Tamaskan) also seem to be listed under almost each of the health concerns. But truly, Redkite and Blustag seem to be listed the most. Thanks [Many of Blustag's Foundation dogs are from Redkite breeding]






Received December 12, 2009 - Hi, I just found your website through google and must say that it's really a lot of info and for me (as a Tam newbie ^^) still a little confusing with all those names etc haha You mentioned something about hip dysplasia and that two breeders got puppies from that sire so I wanted to ask you if they are still breeding with them? (knowing that they could have bad hips) For a newbie (like me) its pretty confusing and you dont really know who to believe but you've got so much info/evidence on your website thats why I thought it would be best to come to you and ask you that question instead of someone else. - K...



Received November 24, 2009 - I'm not sure who you are, but you have alleviated A LOT of stress in my life, while bringing a mountain of it in a different form.We have a female dog from Right Puppy, born from an early 2008 litter of Moose (before he took up the puppy mill breeding). We were under the impression that there was no wolf in her lineage. Yet, after picking her up as a puppy and watching her grow and seeing how difficult and aggressive she can be my husband was certain that there was a lot of wolf in her. We can't trust her around kids, we can't let her off lead and we have worked with this dog 24/7 from the time she was 6 weeks old! We got kicked out of two dog parks for her fighting/aggressive nature, especially against submissive dogs. She is intensely intelligent and learns instantly. But unfortunetly, in her case, the intelligence works against us, in that she KNOWS her options and she rarely chooses to anything that doesn't suit her. We cannot find a 'motivator' for her doing the right thing-- she is not motivated by food or by being told good/bad dog. Play will often times motivate her to learn right from wrong, but that doesn't come into her consideration when its a serious situation. She IS good with cats, ferrets, kids (like they claim) but what they don't say is that its ONLY ones that she was raised with and she now considers 'pack'. She also tests for dominance quite often. She 'stalks' other dogs, cats, even kids. We are trying to train this behavior out of her, but its difficult. Basically, we got what we thought was a wolf looking dog but WITHOUT wolf and it turns out not to be the case at all. I'm worried because I know how difficult my dog can be and Right Puppy is now breeding these dogs from the same lines at about a rate of 20 litters a year, so I see that there can be NO way that other households are able to deal with a dog with this kind of nature. We have the capability right now to be able to take the hours with her every single day to try to turn her into a great dog, but I sure wish I had known before bringing this dog into my home. I love her with all my heart and I have to do what is right by her, but it worries me for her future (as wolfdogs are not allowed in my state) and also for the future of other puppies from Moose that will find themselves in a home not quite as able to accomodate the wolf-type behavior that is characteristic of this line. Thank you for making some sense of it all for me. While it is not good news, at least my thoughts are verified and we are armed with more information for her future. - A.M. [Moose is out of Tumanra, an F3 wolfdog at worse case.]



Received November 10.2009 = Thank you so much! I dont write in English, but I have to do it now. My husband can help me later. We have a dog named *** (Summers brother) here in Finland. His father is Whitefa g. I have even asked before if Valko and Whitefang are the same dogs. Lynn and Alexa (Valkos owner) both said its not! [Alexa's photo album posts shows otherwise] We have serious problems with ****. Its most wonderful dog to familiar people but it try to bite foreign. It also is a very shy dog. Situations in which **** has bitten the human being its very different. It seems that it wants to expel all the other people and dogs away and to be with an own herd. Luck has been that it only bites and does not tear up. We dont any more trust it at all. However we love it enormously and **** would never do nothing to own people. Now I must leave for work. I am so surprised that somebody dares to write about these matters publicly. One must say that no matter came as a surprise to me. We have two really dear beautiful dogs at home in spite of all. - A.P.






12/30/10 - Sadly, despite being caught with their pants down, the continued misrepresentations about UK Tamaskan pedigrees continue by the TDR and its affiliates, they continue to malign, disparage and spread lies about others who have chosen to be honest and separate from them, and wolfdog pups are still being sold as "no wolf content Tamaskans".




As you have seen, after our resignations from the TDR, we were approached by several people who had prior affiliation with Blustag's Lynn Sharkey/Hardey. As a result, we published the site http://www.the-no-wolf-tamaskan-fable.com. In that site, we compiled prior websites of Blustag, correspondence and public posts confirming the intent of Blustag to use wolfdogs in the UK Tamaskan Dog pedigree. Yet, they have continually promoted the breed with the motto "wolfdog without the wolf" ... a blatant misrepresentation and falsification of pedigrees.


Since the head TDR committee members have been so adamant in their stand that "there is no wolf" in the Tamaskan lines, we have asked them to provide DNA samples of the wolfdogs in question to put this matter to rest. They have flatly refused. So, we had to pursue other avenues.


Just recently, we have finally gotten the results for DNA parentage testing of the F1 wolfdog Valko (who remains in Finland) and one of his puppies out of the "Little" litter, sold as a Tamaskan and whose pedigree shows the sire to be "Whitefang". The dam of this litter was Paloose @ Blustag (registered name Redkite Mitka @ Blustag, but changed on TDR pedigrees).


It has been confirmed by science that this male puppy is son of Valko, known as Whitefang on TDR pedigrees. In speaking with our DNA testing lab here in the US, we have been advised "Having just one side of the pedigree is not as accurate as having the sire dam and mating qualify. Having just one parent qualify gets you to about 97-98% confidence level when testing with our 14 marker panel. In other words 1/1000 animals tested independantly will qualify. But you must also take into consideration that the sire chosen was tested because it was a possible sire which also improves the chances."

Since there are so many sources (as set forth in the Fable site), including repeated confirmation by Blustag herself having owned Valko, a wolfdog out of Boogie, an arctic tundra wolf, we are confident in Valko being the wolfdog known as Whitefang on TDR pedigrees.


Interestingly, as soon as the results came back, the information was posted on the Facebook group for the No Wolf Tamaskan, as well as several forums, including the TDR's "private" forum that is only accessible to 'acceptable members'. They "moved" the post "out of the public eye" (as stated by Sylvaen - who interestingly had a half-brother/monorchid x half-sister mating, keeping it secret - on their forum).


So, let's recap: We released the information regarding high content wolfdog being used in the Tamaskan "no wolf" pedigrees. This information was compiled from firsthand accounts by those involved with Blustag and Blufawn in the procurement of the wolfdogs and during their time in Finland, as well as Blustag's own correspondence and archived websites.. The TDR immediately began a smear campaign riddled with lies, libel and slander against those who chose to resign from their organization and have felt a responsibility to those researching the breed in order to make an informed decision based on documented fact. The TDR was presented with an opportunity to prove their "words" true by submitting to scientific testing, and they flatly refused. We got the DNA results that we requested from the TDR, and when the information was posted, the TDR immediately deleted it from their forum.


Now really, do we need to say anymore.




AND THE HARASSMENT CONTINUES... These people really need a life or a job!!!

updated 2/7/11



CRIMINAL HARASSMENT BY THE TAMASKAN DOG REGISTER COMMITTEE MEMBERS




On March 30, 2010, the TDR Chairperson, Lynn Sharkey, posted on the Tamaskan forum that their followers should bombard an Aatu owner with emails and comments on her website. She called this owner an "easily misled" individual, while not knowing we have been dealing with her for over 18 months ... even while we were part of the TDR. This is the continued harassment and childish behavior that head committee members, who claim to be honest and above board, have continued to perpetrate on those who have chosen not to have any dealings with them. In fact, when our little inkspot (see Litters) was born, at least half a dozen people contacted the adopter of that pup, searching her down on FaceBook, in an attempt to dissuade her from adopting the puppy, making false accusations regarding his pedigree. SICK!!! And scary, that they have nothing better to do with their time and lives than to harass others who don't agree with them. (Perhaps they should focus on getting their health issues taken care of!)



Their behavior is obsessive, and their fixation on what any of us do borders criminal harassment. (as defined by the law). They continue to cyber-stalk and harass us so that they can continue the lies they have presented to the public. While we have taken every stop possible to disassociate ourselves from them, they continue to seek us out and monitor our every movement. Really, shouldn't they be concerned about their own health issues and what they are doing?



If anyone wishes to pursue a relationship with the TDR and its committee members, you should be aware of the type of activities that they condone and perpetuate with those that don't agree with them and who have chosen a different course away from them.












PLEASE VISIT http://tdrliesandhumor.blogspot.com/ FOR MORE.







5/10/10 Despite repeated postings and requests to leave us alone, the TDR and its minions continue to harass those who have chosen to remain separate from them. In addition to Ms. Sharkey's continued directives to her league of blind followers to have everyone make written attempts to have websites closed down, they continue to write and harass Aatu affiliated members, owners and future breeders. I don't get it really ... is it mot clear that we want NOTHING to do with them? It always seems to come back to this ... the truth is greater (and more threatening) than fiction. I have full confidence in the honest-hearted to not be blinded by words but to see the facts for what they are. I have always believed not everyone is stupid... though some wish to remain so. (It has to be stupidity... they can't claim ignorance anymore.)



By the way, all posts and email excerpts have been verified as accurate and true originals. So, the TDR's allegations that certain emails have been doctored really comes down to self-projection of their own underhanded and dishonest activities. As the person harassed today said ... "very sad people".









5/15/10 - Well, it has been confirmed that members of the TDR have been using my kennel name (takari) on various forums and other internet sites to post bogus information to make it look like we are seeking them out and trying to discredit them. SICK!!! We are tracking down the IPs and culprits.



I did just join a dog forum (previously a Tamaskan forum dictated by the TDR) and from my first hello, there was an all-out attack. HOW SAD!!! Someone said that I was a threat (geez, I just said hello). Someone else said we were out to cause trouble (all from HELLO?). The truth of the matter is that the truth is always controversial... and only those with something to hide are threatened. That's why none of us at the TBA feel threatened by anyone at the TDR. We know the truth (and so do they), and that's all that matters









2/7/11 It still absolutely AMAZES me the time and effort that the TDR and its blinded and dishonest followers continue to expend to discredit those that have split from them. REALLY: Are 4 dogs and two breeders that come from mostly Blustag breeding THAT MUCH of a threat to such a supposedly strong breed and breeders???? GET A LIFE PEOPLE!!! The amount of time they spend continuing to monitor our websites and post allegedly negative information all over the internet is so idiotically and incredibly infantile. GET A GRIP!!! But, then again, when you are caught with your pants down as much as they have been and caught in SO MANY lies, you really do have to act like a child, kicking and screaming and name calling, because you have NO THREAD of integrity or honesty in your being. They still have NOTHING but "their word" ... A very sad lot of people indeed. The facts are the facts and they are indisputable.
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caninesrock
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby caninesrock » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:31 pm

And finally, the Czech Wolfdog owners got into the mess too:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14592

Recently on another forum the subject of Tamaskan dogs came up and as I was doing some research it seemed very clear to me that some of the heavily used foundation dogs used in the formation of the Tamaskan dog are CSVs.

Besides the 'problem' of outcrossing, there is also the fact that the Tamaskan club claims to be breeding a 'wolf dog without the wolf' - which is clearly not true if CSVs were used heavily in its foundation.

For example the foundation kennel of Tamaskans claim that this dog:
http://tamaskan-dog.com/blustag/jackal.htm

Is a "Siberian cross".. in Tamaskan Dog Registry, Jackal at Blustag is claimed to be from a Siberian Husky dam and a dog of unknown cross named Oskari from Polar Speed kennel. There is also another "Oskari" (pet name only) at Polar Speed kennel, the CSV known as Oxbox Leva-Neve (searchable on our database here).

The "unknown cross" to which the sire is ascribed is a registered Siberian Husky, which would make Jackal 100% Siberian (clearly, he is not).

The owner of Polar Speed has kept one of Jackal's brother/littermates and acknowledges him as a "wolfdog cross"...

My problem is this:

Tamaskans are being marketed as "friendly" dogs that looks like wolves with 0 wolf content. Clearly according to my research this is not true (will post more information further down). It is my opinion that this 'breed' is just mildly outcrossed CSV, yet the 'breeders' are taking all the credit for 'creating' this dog and getting it its wolfy type.. which is simply not true.

Has anyone any more information regarding the use of CSVs in the dogs known as Tamaskan?

Here is a site that I found very informative:

http://the-no-wolf-tamaskan-fable.blogspot.com/

The Tamaskan Dog Registry is in my opinion outright lying about the origins of their dogs when you read the details.


I got questions from Tamaskan breeders who were looking for a male csw for breeding 0 Wolf %. So, I think this answer enough.

Christian


started a thread on this same topic a few months back. I was contacted by some "Aatu" Tamaskan ("regular" Tamaskan people say they distance themselves from Aatu) breeders here in the US - looking to utilize one of my males as a stud. Later, they said someone else had agreed to let them use a male (or maybe they found a breeder willing to send a male...).

Here is the thread:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13371


Interesting you noted your previous thread where both Blustag & Blufawn comment.

Interesting to further note the shared parentage of Oskari the Vlcak, as well.

Thanks for all those who replied both here & by PM.

Still reading around more but it seems like to me the Aatu people are openly breeding to wolfdogs where as the "normal" people (Blustag included) seem to be doing well, either not anymore or behind closed doors, as the dog is said to be 0% wolf content.

Finding it very difficult to believe that a pretty consistent type with the pictorial 'standard' can be found as early as 2006 when the 'breed' was in its first generations supposedly founded upon solely GSDs, Mals, Sibes and a handful of unknowns.

Does anyone know the kennel Polar Speed personally?


Hi Yukidomari,

I am the person that helped Blustag get her CsV x Siberian huskies & wolfdogs Valko and Henki (real wolfdogs originating from pure wolf / high content wolfdog called Boogie) from Polar Speed. I visited Polar Speed quite a few times to gather information and photograph his dogs in order for Blustag to buy dogs from him. Also included full pedigrees with information that Oskari is a pure CsV (Finnish Champion btw) that I still have saved on my hard drive. I have been trying to tell people the truth about Tamaskan wolf & CsV content from the day I noticed that Blustag and Blufawn were going to deny it. To me it is omportant people know what the truth is and what they are getting if they want to get a Tamaskan.

If you want recent news on this, we have had one Finnish Tamaskan dog, Blustag Little Moon ("Nuuk") tested in Finnzymes lab on parental DNA analysis compared with a white wolfdog Valko (sired by Boogie, mother a pure sibe). Nuuk's TDR pedigree states his father is a dog called Whitefang. No information of this Whitefang is available from the TDR (where he lives, who owns hims etc). The DNA analysis was positive for Valko being Nuuk's sire (see: http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AX...FtNXZjaA&hl=fi), the possibility for him NOT to be Nuuk's sire is less than one percent as stated by the Finnzymes lab. Whitefang is also listed by the TDR Foundation Dog Booklet as Heidi at Blustag's sire, and the litter brother to Jodie at Blustag. So Jodie at Blustag is also an F1 and Heidi and the "Little litter" are F2 wolfdogs. So Whitefang is Valko and Jodie is Henki, who both were listed as wolfdogs on Blustag's old website (while Blustag lived in Finland), which can still be accessed through web archives: http://web.archive.org/web/200606211...gs/wolfdog.htm Blustag has also publicly announced that they owned wolfdogs from Boogie: http://tamaskan-dog.com/uk/Articles/nowolfable.htm . I have tried to post this piece of evidence on the TDR forum, but the post got removed immediately, I was banned and a topic started right away to just attack me on a personal level, not address the issue itself. I have tried many times to post on the TDR forums but they have always removed me and the posts.

Have you been to our FB group: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=...d=176807493391 There you can find photos of the dogs in questions and also of Oskari, Boogie, Valko, Henki and their littermates etc.

If any of you need more information, please contact me or join our FB group (we welcome everyone no matter how you feel about tamaskans or our research). I will try to help with any questions you have regarding this, but please be patient if I dont get back to asap, I have so many people contacting me it is taking me quite a few hours a day just to write emails...

All the best to you all,

Tuuli Salmi


CsV is one case, pure wolf another. Both have been used to created Tamaskans. It is not the CsV/wolf percentege I am doing this for, it is the fact that people havent been told about these infusions. I.e. they have been misled to believe that the breed has been created from GSD, malamute and siberian, which is just not TRUE. I think everyone is entitled to receive the truth and nothing can nor will justify NOT telling people the truth.


Tuuli - Thanks for the information. I was wondering when they would DNA test Whitefang to one of his offspring to conclusively make evidence.

Luna's mom et al; PB mixing issues asides, I agree that whatever dogs they use as a foundation to their breed is their business.

HOWEVER, marketing a dog as not having wolf content when it clearly does - and has some high-content ones at that (F2s etc) - is a lie and really should not be done, especially if that is the main selling point. If you are marketing your dog as an alternative to a wolfdog, then by principle it cannot have any wolf content. It is just not ethically correct to mislead people this way. It is not about purebreds, mixes, or otherwise.

Furthermore, you cannot claim to have bred a wolfy-looking dog without using wolves and garner all the credit from that when that is not true. For example, you can't breed a GSD to a Malinois and then claim credit for creating a GSD looking dog without using GSD (and thereby perhaps bypassing all the of the various health problems in the GSD). That is simply untrue and can also be very harmful to collective 'breed' knowledge including temperamental differences, potential health problems, etc.

There are many people buying Tamaskan dogs because they have been led to believe that these dogs do not have wolf content and therefore they don't need to deal with everything that is typically associated with one - including legal ramifications. This is simply dangerous and totally irresponsible to mislead people concerning this area.

You are right when you say that as CSV people we consider CSVs dogs, but we are also upfront about there being the inclusion of wolf in the breeding.


No, no, that's the problem. It's not just CSVs they've used, but actual pure wolves. Like 'Whitefang', a certified Interior Alaskan Tundra wolf. And recent, too. And, some deny the use of CSVs at all.. instead representing where Oskari falls as a purebred Siberian Husky (which CSVs are clearly not, both temperamentally and otherwise)..

And again, it's not about the content or what not, it's about being upfront about pedigree information. It's about correctly representing the dog.


You can when you change the name on the pedigree on whitefang's offspring, and list him as an unknown breed.. even when one of said offspring's littermates tested DNA positive for having whitefang as a sire....


Sorry, my mistype - Whitefang is not a wolf, he is a F1 wolfdog out of an Alaskan Tundra/Interior wolf sire and Sibe mother.

An Alaskan Tundra wolf looks like this:

http://longhairedhippy.livejournal.com/387530.html

(go half way down the page).

And this:
flickr.com/photos/10755025@N06/3294104949/


Yes, it would be the breeder at Polarspeed who bred Valko. Maybe we should DNA test Valko to the perspective sire?

And secondly I have never said 'wolves are dangerous', simply that lying about their pedigree is. It is dangerous for a variety of reasons including legal reasons and health knowledge. If the pedigrees are not forthcoming about the types of dogs used, then it is harder to isolate potential health problems commonly known to all breeds. If it is indeed true, for example, that GSDs were used as a foundation to Tamaskans, then breeders should be wary about the potential of Degenerative Myelopathy, for one.

Additionally, if a dog is not generations removed from wolf ancestry, it is illegal or requires a permit to own in many places and many countries. That is what is DANGEROUS. For both the dog and the owner, who can face the animal being confiscated, put down, fines, or otherwise. If Valko is a F1 wolfdog and Jodie at Blustag is his daughter, that would require a permit to own her.

You said, "At the German meeting i found everyone happy with there Tamakan and no trouble like you would expect."

I have never said that nobody was happy with their Tamaskan dogs or that they were somehow trouble prone?


I'd have an easier time believing the 'no wolf tamaskan' site or what ever its called, if it wasn't for the fact that the new aatu tamaskan breeders who continuously bang on about all of this, didn't appear to be such hypocrits.

They say high content wolfdogs and csvs were used in the creation of the original tamaskan, and by the way they write, it would appear that that is an issue for them so, one has to ask if indeed their claim is true, and they indeed have an issue with it, then why on Earth are they contacting breeders of csvs to see if they can use a male for stud, there was also mention of them looking at using the dogs bred by noble paws, I think someone posted a link to their site earlier on here. Are those dogs not wolfdogs, or at least, they're claimed to be, so again, if wolfdog in the tamaskan is an issue, then why are they using wolfdog or planning to, in their new aatu tamaskan?

They say, that the original tamaskan is plagued with health issues, and that they're going to fix the problems in their new breed. However, one of their founder studs is a monorchid, one founder bitch is from lines known to produce epalepsy, the first litter of aatu tamaskan born in the USA was from a stud without full health test results, and thats if he is indeed the sire, there is some speculation as to that.

Just as a point of interest, their new breed is called the aatu tamaskan yes, tamaskan, you know the breed they dedicate sites to slagging off, well the original breed is so bad that they'd like to keep the name association...If it was me, and the breed was as bad as they claimed with regards to health etc, then I'd want to distance myself as much as possible from that wouldn't you. Just to add to it, they seem fond of dropping the aatu part of their new breeds name, and refer to them as tamaskans, of course, that isn't going to cause confusion is it?.

Now if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, then I don't know what is.

P.s.
Where is the solid proof of the dna evidence that is being claimed. I was also under the impression that there wasn't a test for wolf content, as both domestic dog and grey wolf dna is so similar, that it is near impossible to tell by a dna test if a dog does contain recent wolf content or not. Apologies if that is wrong, it has been a while since I looked into the subject, so science may have progressed since then.


Hello everyone,
I have been very interested in this thread and although it was sometime ago I thought I would register on this forum and comment on it. A little background information about me first, I absolutely love wolves but living in California is not the best place to own or even see a wolf. I am looking to buy my first Tamaskan Dog for their close resemblance and their laid back personalities and are very easy to train. Other important qualities are that they are a bigger type dog and are very active and love the outdoors such as myself.
I have been and am still researching about the breed trying to find out as much as possible about their background. Someone mentioned the name of Bluestag and about the TDR, Tamaskan Dog Register. I found this website to be interesting and maybe useful or not to others http://tamaskantruth.com
As for me, which is bias, I am thankful for the Tamaskan line. I can get the dog I have dreamed of without bringing all of the "real wolf" blood line qualities with it. Please let me know of any information or concerns you may have


Ah yes, I remember that website.

Reminds me that one of the main people responsible for it some time ago said they have actual proof of there being wolf in the TDR tamaskan lines.
They also said that they would provide the proof, for all to see.

Now, as the proof has to my knowledge never been provided to back up their claim, it gives me two reasons to play with as to why this is:

1. They've got the universes slowest scanner.

2. They were talking a load of bs and never had the proof to begin with.

Which do you all think is most likely?

They complain about the possible use of csvs and high content wolfdogs in the tamaskan lines, but are quite happy to try and use some of these dogs themselves.

Pot, kettle, black.


Tazer - As of last year a dog out of a Blustag kennel litter was proven by DNA link to be the progeny of the F1 wolfdog Valko aka Whitefang, as stated by Tuuli at post #2 (with scans of the DNA results).

As I understand the complaint is transparency, or lack thereof, not that wolfdogs are not to be used per se.


Taz, please check this out and I know some finish people who saw the developement of these F1 and F 2 animals, children from Boogie and Husky Blondie personally and I know some of the dogs.

So, please check this out:

The person behind the "No Wolf Tamaskan" -website is Tuuli Kontio (former Salmi), who helped Lynn Hardey (former Sharkey; the English woman / breeder of Blustag -kennels) to buy the dogs from Reijo Jaaskelainen @ Polarspeed kennels.
While Lynn lived in Finland, they were friends with Tuuli.
Lynn bought and owned Valko and his sister "Henki" (nowadays Jodie at Blustag) while living in Finland, but though she imported Henki (Jodie) into UK with her when she moved back there, she left Valko behind. Valko went to a Finnish wolfdog breeder, who made several litters out of him. From one litter Lynn picked up a puppy and imported to UK. She strictly told the breeder not to ever tell anyone she bought a puppy out of that litter.

There is no doubt that Valko is a son of Boogie. Also the DNA tests that were made of Valko and a Tamaskan dog imported to Finland (bred by Lynn in UK) were made in the same laboratory in Finland, that makes the official DNA testing for Finnish Kennel Club. It is absurd to claim that the test was manipulated / incorrect, since it is in no way possible to manipulate those tests in that laboratory. And how in eart they could have gotten a positive test result here in FIN, if the true parents of that particular Tamaskan dog truly were in UK? To get a positive result, they would have had to get a sample of the parents; in other case it would have been a negative result. If the sire is not Valko, who sent the sample of the "real sire" from UK to the Finnish laboratory? :-D)))
The breeder Reijo Jaaskelainen @ Polarspeed -kennels has also verified that Valko is from a litter out of Boogie & Blondy av Vargevass, and Boogie has several other offspring that look exactly like Valko. I know this since I have seen with my own eyes and I have pictures of them too. Valko's mother was a light grey, pure bred working line Siberian Husky (imported from Norway to Finland; Blondy av Vargevass).
In the litter she had with Boogie, the phenotype of the offspring varied from wolfy to less wolfy. And as knowing genetics, it is no wonder! Valko looked more like a giant Husky/short haired Malamute (without a curly tail) with yellow eyes, but his behaviour was very wolfy, and he has passed on this behaviour also as other wolfy traits.
Some individuals are very wolfy. They have alot features from Boogie, like for example my own Woogie (son of Valko; grand son of Boogie)! If you compare my Woogie and Boogie you will find lots of similarities.

Since Boogie is originally imported from US (Alaska) from the place called Wolfcountry USA that has done high content wolfdog & wolf breeding over several decades, no-one can for sure tell if he is a "pure" wolf (are there really "pure wolves" anywhere in the world; especially in US??). For what I have understood of color genetics, pure white coloring is a recessive trait and therefore it must come from both parents.

Valko was pure white since birth; like Huskies.

Knowing this one could assume that Boogie is not entirely "pure wolf"; that he has to carry the pure white gene to pass it forward.
... are there even such a thing as a pure wolf? We allready know where the black phase coloring to wolves came from. We all know that during their existence the wolf and the dog has ALWAYS mix bred. Where goes the fine line what we should call "pure" and what not?

And even though we would not call Boogie a pure wolf, but a high content wolfdog, it does not change the fact that while having his offspring in their breeding program of Tamaskan dogs, they are lying when claiming they are 'wolfy looking dogs without the wolf''. -You cannot breed animals like Boogie to dogs and sell them as "wolfy looking without wolf"! They are wolfdogs; and of a pretty decent content too!
It is the same problem with the FCI recognized breeds the CsV and Saarloos; if you mix them with wolves / wolfdogs you should not lie to the buyers/owners.
I would totally understand mixing under a superviced breeding program. But when random breeders do it with dishonest ways, it is a hazard to both the dogs and the buyers that are unaware and miss quided of what they are really buying.

I do understand that the people who allready own and breed Tamaskan dogs, are trying to deny the wolf content in their animals, since it was illegal to own such (lower than F5) in UK.
But the truth must be out there for the sake of all the people who are thinking of getting a Tamaskan pup. Most people who take Tamaskans, take them because they want a wolfy dog WITHOUT wolf content. It is not right that what they get is a big fat lie.

And it makes absolutely sence because in former times wolfdogs were not allowed to have in great britain. From 2009 wolfdogs from F 3 are allowed.

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife...waa/hybrid.htm

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife...a-wolfdogs.pdf

But by the way, this is a czechoslovakian wolfdog forum and not about Tamaskan.

christian


I do live in the uk so was aware of DEFRA's view change with regards to Csvs Swhs and hybrids, but thanks for pointing it out anyway.

Its just so confusing and frustraiting, I've been researching the erm wolf look alike types for several years and the lies, cover ups, half truths, U turns and the apparent pedigree fakings/alterings make it hard to outright believe or not believe anyone.

For an example, in the mid 90s their was a programme on the tv in the uk, a dog was on who's owner claimed him to be an F4 hybrid. Upon being investigated by DEFRA (called something else back then but can't remember what) the dog over night became not a hybrid, so did all the owners other dogs. The owner got off on a technicality and her dogs went on to be called northern inuits, which also apparently have no added wolf content. Yet one of the founder stud dogs, was the very same dog she refered to as an F4 hybrid on the tv.

I recall watching the programme at the time vaguely and have seen it again more recently, it was posted on another forum and is probably still there somewhere.

But yes this is a Csv forum and I should get back to lurking in the csv sections lol. Whilst hoping that one day the uk will get some good, ethical breeders that want to see the breed thrive hear, instead of just a tool to mix with whatever to make money.


I have no proof of that there is wolf or hybrid in the Tamaskan but I know there is CVs in there and I am the one who has the proof for the SwH.
Why didn't I put that up on internet, just simple I like the breed Tamaskan no matter if it is in there or not.

I just think that people should know but it doesn't make the dogs any less and the thinks about easier to train etc is still true..... so why is all that fighting about it necessary???
Am I ok with that they made false pedigree's? No of course I am not but we all know every breed have issues like that and you just have to know witch breeder you have to take.


Miran, I had wondered if you were the owner of Djoser van Rijnecker Hof!

I don't think the dogs are "any less".. I just don't think it's any way to go about building a 'breed' - in the truest sense of the word, establishing traits that breed true to type - which isn't really possible when the pedigrees are not true and when there are random and secret outcrosses that are covered up by the pedigree issuing body.. Yes, there are dishonest breeders in every breed, but like this?

Surely they are nice dogs though, like all dogs. There is one that is enrolled in obedience class taught by my friend here in the USA.



I agree with you and that is why I and others asked and talked about it that it was better to let it be in the open.
It is also why I am no longer with the TDR anymore
And yes Djoser v rijneckerhof is my Saarloos and I also have a Tamaskan son out of that nest from it. But I have his real pedigree.
No the dog is no lesser to me because I still think it was a good match if the truth was told about it. What is said on the nofable site that he was a known carrier of DM is not true because we all know that the test for DM for the Saarloos came late 2009 and the pups where already born than. I tested the father and his son later that same year on it and that was the first time we knew. Later it turned out the mother was also a carrier.
Yes this all was very sad but because I tested against what some wanted and advised they know it is in every breed and so they can prevent sufferers like we also try in the Saarloos and the CvS.

I do not condemn every TDR breeder because there are that didn't know about this all and don't agree with it either but doesn't condemn the breed for it. I do also not. I still love the tamaskan for the goal they had in mind and made in my eyes I just can not agree with lying about some lines.


also do not find every Saarloos line an addition to the breed. In temprement I do can say I found him at the time good for that because he isn't shy at all and all of his kids are also not shy at all(Saarloos kids as well)
Not every Saarloos line is shy

And believe me that also the TDR and the TBA had struggles about being open with health issues but I am glad that these days that is going better.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby caninesrock » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:07 pm

So is Taz a wolfdog or really just a German Shepard mix? icon_confused.gif
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Cierpke » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:07 am

I am currently a member of the forum and have been in love with and following the breed for years. There is indeed no wolf in the Tamaskan.
Imagen That . . .
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Cindy23323 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:20 pm

I've been told that Valko had been bred to several female Tamaskans to introduce new blood into the line. Valko is a F1 50%. Father (Boogie) being a pure tundra wolf, and sibe mother. So if that info is true then there is definately wolf in the line.
Info and pics here.

http://wolfdogforum.com/forum/viewtopic ... skan#p2378

You can also find some more info and pics here too

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=176807493391
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby caninesrock » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:08 pm

So then Taz isn't a wolfdog? Because he looks extremely like a mid or upper low content to me.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Lasergrl » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:07 pm

all the politics aside I do not think he looks particularly wolky other then the way he is standing in the one picture. That could have been the result of good photography. I think he actually looks like malamute belgian sheepdog mixes I have seen. A women around here had 3 such dogs that were rejects from police dog projects.

I just looked up the breed and honestly for the most part they look like norwegian elkhound husky crosses. I dont think they look wolfish at all. The one pictured looks more wolf like then the breed seems to look in general.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby caninesrock » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:25 pm

@LG: Supposedly, according to the TDR, the breed's origins are primarily siberian husky, finnish huskies of unknown origin(likely the Lapponian Herder Dog, aka, Finish Reindeer Herding Husky, since the Tamaskan breed has masking and other markings remarkably simliar to those found on Lapponian Herder Dogs), I think some malamute if I remember correctly,all for the wolfy look, and a tiny splash of German Shepard blood for trainability. Other sources, however, accuse them of having used Czech Wolfdog and even mid to high content wolfdog "hybrids" and lieing about the pedigree by not admitting it and claiming that the breed has absolutely no wolf in it at all. Also, the breeds aim(from my understanding anyway) is not to look like a pure wolf,but like a wolfdog(like a midcontent like Jed who played White Fang for example in the Disney movie) without actually having any wolf in it thus being a safe family pet and trainable efficient working(primarily for sled pulling) dog as a result.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Angel » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:04 pm

Hi people,
I had the same questions about this breed. Who is now telling the real truth?? Who is honest ? Who isn't ?

I sadly choose to believe the TDR. I'll post here the email exchange I had with Lynn Hardey, from Blustag Artic Breeds. I tell nothing about the truth about the breed... but just post an example the she's not a honest breeder. So if she isn't ... why should she be honest about the origin of the Tamaskan, or the cross with wolf or not wolf ?

After that, you'll make your own opinion :


(I put only the sentences which were relevant, not all the description of myself, or the conversation about bad or good weather. But, the entire mail exchange can be sended to whom wants to, because you can easily have the feeling, parts of respons fail.... its not a feeling, its a fact!)

Angel 05.09 (I saw an announcement on Tamaskan Dog Register : some puppies may still be available. so I decided to write to the breeder) Hi, I saw on TDR homepage that you have puppies. do you still have some to sale ? (COMMENTS this annoucement is still online... 8 month later!!!)

Lynn 05.09 I do have a waiting list and next puppies will be due this automn, ready late winter/early 2012 (COMMENTS +several questions about me)

A 06.09 I respond to her questions and sended al lot of pictures

A 14.10 (COMMENTS as far as she didn't say NO, about the annoucement puppies, I asked again) Do you still have puppies

L 14.10 I need a deposit from 200£ to put you on the list

A 14.10 Sorry I missunderstood you, I thought they were ready to go on the end of 2011, beginning 2012. I thougth they were born. Can you tell me which female and which male? Do you have pictures ?

L 15.10 Yes we have puppies due shortly and they will be ready to go just after Chrsitmas. We also have girls in season. Litter due is from Zuul. (COMMENTS please remember this name... it becomes important later !)

A 16.10 after Christmas would be a wonderful time...

19.10 I PAID THE DEPOSIT

A 29.11 Do you have some news from the litter ?

L 29.11 I have one Malamut litter due, and mated 3 Tamaskan girls (COMMENTS nothing about the Zuul litter !!)

A 04.01 Did your litter come ? (COMMENTS if girl was mated about 15-20 octobre... + about 63 days.... = 17-22 decembre ! so when I ask on 4th january, they should be born)

L. 05.01 First pups are due around 28th january. I will let you know the minute we have babies (COMMENTS she never did that)

A 07.02 I want to know if puppies are born. Do you already know the day you'll bring them to Germany? I'ts important since I want to move.

L 10.02 Pups are born. Puppies are 8 weeks when they go to their homes. (COMMENTS she didn't give me a date of birth !! + remember the date.... 10th of february, she told me... PUPS ARE BORN)

A 10.02 So it'll be around Eastern? We could also take it in GB (COMMENTS she never answered that!)

L 15.02 EXACT THE SAME MAIL AS 10.02, I think she had forgotten, she sended this already ! (COMMENTS so pups are still born !!! It becomes important later !!)

L 21.01 Hi Guys, all puppies are born, Susi had 4 pups, Heidi 7, Jodie 4. Questions : 1. are you ready or pup, 2. definate sex, 3. which litter you prefer, 4. color preference, 5. do you want to breed.

A 22.02 I answered her questions + : before I can give you my definit okay, I have questions too : 1. which male with which bitch, 2. results of hip-score, 3. results of DM, 4. other health issues, 5. which day which litter is born, 6. when do you bring them to Europe.

L 05.03 Here is a photo of puppy from Jodie litter. Please let me know if you would like her.

A 05.03 I don't know the date of birth, the parents health, the father, puppies environment, when and where you bring them. Please would you mind answer my questions.

L 05.03 You havn't asked me questions (COMMENTS yes she said that!!!) I don't know where you got the idea I don't want to answer questions. Jodie only ha 1 female, 7 people wanting her. So let me know urgently.

L 06.03 Jackal is the sire, and they are born 17th feb. (COMMENTS... and no more before 10th feb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

A: 06.03 Give her to another if there are several people waiting. It's to important for me having all informations

L 07.03 Date of birth 17th feb, sire Jackal... DM results, hip-score, delivery 16th april. Can you let me know urgently as I need to workout a travel route (COMMENTS, 16th is not before Eastern... and now it's to workout a travel and not because 7 people are waiting!!!! And... I told already to give her to another)

A 07.03 16th of april is impossible for me we have now a very bad situation exactly what I didn't want to have ! Let her go to other people and pay me back my 200£

L 07.03 we do have another litter from Zuul & Dingo in two weeks (COMMENTS, here's the litter from Zuul again!)

A 07.03 in october you told me having a litter from Zuul and now you have one again. Do you think I'm stupid ? It becomes more and more strange. Let stop here and pay me back my fees.

L 09.03 Litter from Zuul in october turns out she wasn't pregnant just fat. Deposits are non-returnable

A 09.03 I become more and more angry about this situation, you lies since 6 month to me. you should pay me this 200£

L 10.03 don't tell me a liar. I am disgusted with your attitude. It's a common knowledge that deposits are not refunden if someone changes there mind

A 12.03 Yes deposits are not refundable, when the seller is honest. I paid a deposit because you told me you'll have puppies to Christmas ! And now you tell me you cannot see the difference between a fot dog and a pregnant dog ! But you'll assume your decision.

I never heard from her since that day! So people, you can now look who is dishonest here. At this day, I didn't receive pictures, she always told me to look on her homepage. Which I did, but there is only one pic per dog, no pictures where they live, how they are now... I don't know how old the pics are !! I cannot know if the dogs are hold in cages, if they are well socialised (as she pretend on her website), I don't know how she looks like (she asked me pictures of my home, my husband, my other dogs, my house). I don't know if Susi or Heidi had girls... as I could not choose my litter. I still know nothing about the personality of the dogs......... and I lost 200£ !
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Tarheel » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:44 am

Angel,
There is a lot of information missing from your story and frankly, it is very hard to tell what is going on with the abbrivated emails between you and Lynn. I do know Lynn and for the last 2 months she has been moving houses and has not had regular access to the internet. Have you ever called Lynn and talked to her personally? Have you visited her home and seen her dogs?
I am sure if Lynn accepted your deposit, she had intended on getting you a puppy, From what litter were you expecting a puppy from, or did you not care what litter the pup came from? It appears Lynn offered you a certain puppy, but you refused and then wanted your money back. Is this correct? Did Lynn tell you before she asked for a deposit that the deposit was non-refundable? Wh did you decide not to get one of her puppies?
I find it really strange that I found your post on this forum, I am wondering why you did not post anything on the International Tamaskan Dog Forum? Why have you not contacted anyone associated with the Tamaskan Dog Register?
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby caninesrock » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:35 pm

Angel's post aside, that still doesn't get rid of all the other evidence and not just from opposing Tamaskan breeder associations with agendas but also from the Czech Wolfdog breeders who could care less about Tamaskan breeding and so wouldn't make up things about them.

And also, did you have to join a random forum instead of just pming the member if she is also part of the actual Tamaskan forum?Joining other forums just to defend possible lies sure doesn't look guilty at all.... :roll:
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Angel » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:08 pm

There is a lot of information missing from your story and frankly, it is very hard to tell what is going on with the abbrivated emails between you and Lynn.
- Yes, thats what I said, it seems a lot of information are cut by me... but I really get this mails like this, I cut only the information about my life, and our conversations about bad or good weather !! As I said too, I can furnish all the e-mails, uncut, to whom wants to.

I do know Lynn and for the last 2 months she has been moving houses and has not had regular access to the internet.
- I know that, but she moved only in january, our mail exchange started in september. Why didn't I get more informations than?

Have you ever called Lynn and talked to her personally?
- I had no phone of her untill recently (20th of february). My english is not so good. Write is easier, because of the help of translator.

Have you visited her home and seen her dogs?
- 1. I had no addres.... and still have no addres.
2. I proposed that in october but she didn't tell me she'll move. I still don't know where she is in England!!!!!!!! How can I look for a journey ?
3 can you imagine pay about 1000€ for a travel, just to see her one day?

I am sure if Lynn accepted your deposit, she had intended on getting you a puppy, From what litter were you expecting a puppy from, or did you not care what litter the pup came from?
- she told me she had a litter due from Zuul, puppies were ready to go after Christmas, and after this information I paid a deposit, but it appears she wasn't pregnant but only fat. She told me that fact only 3 month later !

It appears Lynn offered you a certain puppy, but you refused and then wanted your money back. Is this correct?
- Yes. But.... She sended me a mail on 10th february litters were born, I asked her questions about them. No answer on my questions. Than 20th of february, she told me she had 3 litters and asked which litter I prefer Heidi, Jodie or Susie. Since I don't know this dogs, neither their health, nore the father, I asked for more information again BEFORE I could decided which litter. The only answer I received, was a pictures of a 2 weeks old puppy from the litter of Jodie. So... no other choice was proposed at that time and suddenly the puppies were no more born on 10th february but on 17th.

Did Lynn tell you before she asked for a deposit that the deposit was non-refundable?
- No. But she later told me it is common knowledge that it is not refundable: I answered her, that can be true, if the seller says the truth. Remember, I paid a desposit after she said me litter from Zuuk should due about 2 weeks later and I get a puppy for Christmas.

Wh did you decide not to get one of her puppies?
- Because I had to less informations and I finally had the feeling she was not honest with me. Look, so much websites advice you to have as much informations about the breeder as you can. So does the TDR. Lynn asked me several questions about my life, and asked for pictures. I had never received only one picture of her, of her house, where the dog lives, and of the dogs. She only said I should have a look on her homepage... but how old are the pictures on this site?? I also wanted to know more about the personality of the father, of the mother. Wanted to know about hip-scores or other health problems. But she didn't answer that questions. And as she told me she'll have a litter from Zuul, once again, it was just too much for me!! Why telling me in october she'd have a litter from Zuul ask me to pay a deposit, and tell the same information in march? A good breeder can see the difference between a fat dog, or a pregnant dog, particularily if the litter is due max 10 days later. Further, why ask me to chose between 3 litters, and when I ask for more information about the bitch or the male, she send me 1 picture of 1 puppy from 1 litter? So what does she hide ?? Is it so uncommon for dog buyers to know more about their family tree ?

I find it really strange that I found your post on this forum, I am wondering why you did not post anything on the International Tamaskan Dog Forum? Why have you not contacted anyone associated with the Tamaskan Dog Register?
- 1. Because there was allready a post about Tamsakan dogs here
- 2. because of lack of confidence in the TDR. And what could I tell them? The problem is not about other tamaskan breeders, or about the breed itself, but about Lynn Hardey.

I still have the feeling I have been had. So I'll contact UK authorities. I already had informations from a standard trading organisations, and they'll help me. So if you know Lynn so good, tell her she'd better pay me back. I'll do all I can, to get my money back since I'm not ok with this bad manners, also go to the media or any organisation that could help me.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Angel » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:44 pm

So I answered your questions. Now, further...
It's interesting to see Tarheel, you spoke to her. You have some informations you couldn't know without that.

My post here is about dishonest breeders. To advice people to pay attention. There are soooooo much good breeders on earth, doing a very good job. But for someone who search a puppy it can be difficult to find out if it is a good or a bad breeder.

Everyone should know the truth, so everyone can make his own opinion. Such dishonest breeders are a shame for all those breeders doing their job with a lot of love, indepedent of the breed. So I shared my experience with Blustag, not only in this forum, but several other forums, in french, in german and in english. To inform.

Sell dogs is not the same as sell cars. If you are not okay with your car, you can resell it. My opinion is to take a dog for his whole life. So I need more informations, I ask questions, I want to have answers. I need to think about this acquisition, I need exactly to know what sort of dog I want to have for the next 15 years. And if it is to much for a breeder to give this informations, so I cannot consider him as honest. Where is the rub?

To much dogs end their life in a shelter. I don't want to be a person who clean up my dog in a shelter and I expect a good breeder gives me the answers I need to buy my dog with responsibility. And I sincerly hope that one day, all people do that. There would be less dogs in the shelters.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Tarheel » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:48 pm

Angel,
I will be hapy to make contact with Lynn on your behalf.
I have purchased a Tamaskan from Lynn in the past with no problems. I asked to see a copy of hip scores, and she scanned them and sent them to me. I sent her the full amount for the puppy as requested prior to the flight to the USA, and I got a wonderful puppy. Lynn has had no complaints that I know of about not delivering on a puppy. I know, and I am in contact with several people who have a Tamaskan from Lynn. The problem may be with the language barrier, but that is only a guess. When getting a dog, you must have patience, Lynn has had people on a waiting list for years.
Contact me at tarheel.tamaskan@yahoo.com and I will do my best to help you get this straight with Lynn.

Caninesrock,
What is your random babble all about? I stubled upon Angels post, it looked like she could use some help, so I joined the forum.
Your post
"Angel's post aside, that still doesn't get rid of all the other evidence and not just from opposing Tamaskan breeder associations with agendas but also from the Czech Wolfdog breeders who could care less about Tamaskan breeding and so wouldn't make up things about them." Is not even a complete sentence. Do you care to explain?
Yes I joined a random forum, Not to defend lies as you suggest, but to help someone with a problem. If Angel posted on the Tamaskan forum, I would have helped her from there. What do I look guilty of? BTW Caninesrock, What is your beef with Tamaskan dog?
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Ciaobella » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:55 pm

Not sure what your problem is with the breed either Caninesrock. Tarheel is probably one of the best to answer any questions and I'm sure his intentions were to help Angel out, as you can see his post was directed at her specifically.

I have been inclined to post here but I am no expert on the breed, but your comment was very rude and not needed.
Was Cierpke, lost password xD

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