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Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Wolf hybrids or other exotic species crossed with domestic

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caninesrock
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby caninesrock » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:29 pm

These lines were rude:

Througout your post on this subject, you continuely throw in your opinion as if it was fact. You yourself indicate how you are confused and don't know who to believe about the tamaskan dog, yet you post pictures from the internet, throwing in your 2 cents about the breed like you are some expert.

I never claimed anywhere that my opinion was fact or that I was an expert and that was uncalled for to accuse me of that. My whole post was simply what I thought the breed would be like based on the kinds of dogs used to make it. I think it's fair to think that a breed that is a mixed of almost nothing but sled dogs is going to have the same personality as sled dogs.


And here:
CaninesRock, You are putting your opinion out there as fact, and you are wrong. During the creation of the breed, the founders of the breed were living in Finland. They later returned to the UK with their dogs. Some of the dogs used in the creation of the breed were Finnish Racing Huskies. I know this to be true, because I know the owners and they have told me this. What is your proof to counter that the breed founders were not in Finland?


Again,they are accusing me of something I didn't do by taking my words the wrong way and twisting them. I never said that the breed was from the UK. I said the founder is from the UK which is true. I also never said that the founder wasn't ever in Finland so I'm not sure why their apprarently challenging me for proof. Which brings the question, if I'm from America,but I live in Italy for 2 years and start creating a breed there,but then move back to the US and continue creating the breed there, does that make it an Italian breed or an American breed? The line is blurry. You could go either way technically anyway.


And finally this line:
These are the types of situations that give any breed a bad name. When people who think they know what they are writing about actualy don't know much if any about the breed, yet post as they are an expert.

Some of my info may have been wrong,but it didn't given anything that would make the breed look bad. How does simply getting a country of origin confused or being confused when photos of different dogs that look signicantly different from each other but are supposed to all be the same breed give the breed a bad name?

I'm further confused by their videos as the dogs in there look like the first 3 dogs I posted so fit what looks like a standard for the breed since they all look the same,but the other two photos look nothing like either the 3 dogs or the dogs in the videos.

Also, some of their previous posts to me in this topic were rude.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:48 pm

Yeah in one post to you she said you seemed to be babbling and to please clarify is a bit rude but your first post to her was this and that post was in reply to it
caninesrock wrote:Joining other forums just to defend possible lies sure doesn't look guilty at all.... :roll:


You were rude first then got mad she was defensive and got a little rude back. As I said someone being rude first is no reason to be rude back however you defended your being rude by saying she was first but that's not true. You did make the first rude post between you two.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby caninesrock » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:02 pm

TamanduaGirl wrote:Yeah in one post to you she said you seemed to be babbling and to please clarify is a bit rude but your first post to her was this and that post was in reply to it
caninesrock wrote:Joining other forums just to defend possible lies sure doesn't look guilty at all.... :roll:


You were rude first then got mad she was defensive and got a little rude back. As I said someone being rude first is no reason to be rude back however you defended your being rude by saying she was first but that's not true. You did make the first rude post between you two.


Ok. I admit I did jump to conclusions too fast to think they were doing the same thing and I shouldn't have made that statement,but I really have seen breeders join other forums before only after someone made a post about the breed just to start an argument and attack the person for posting something negative about the breed. People ask about rumors on neutral forums for a reason. They don't want the breeders joining up and posting to start arguments and drama. If I wanted to get in a debate over whether or not the rumors are true instead of just asking neutral people's opinions, then I would have posted on the official forums,but I posted here because I didn't want to get into any arguments and I got dragged into one anyway. It just irks me a little. That's all.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Tarheel » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:11 pm

First, I would like to offer my apology to anyone who may have taken my forward agressive writing style to be attacking, or rude in any way. This was not my purpose here. My first post was to help Angel with her situation with a fellow Tamaskan breeder that I have known for 6 years. One of the first replies I got accussed me of jumping in a forum to defend possible lies. I took this all with a grain of salt as my first concern was helping Angel. The days to follow, I went through and read the entire string started by Caninesrock. My follow on posts seem to lean more towards correcting mis-information, and then defending the breed from poorly worded personal opinion.
I don't sugar coat things too much anymore. If you are wrong, I an going to tell you flat out you are wrong. This is not me being rude, this is me telling it like it is. If your grammar is so poor, that you cannot write complete sentences. I am going to tell you your sentence was poorly written and makes no sense. If you are going to make a claim that information provided by a reputable source is often wrong, you better have proof to back up that the information provided, is in fact wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It is one thing to have an opinion, and another to share it. If you intend to share your opinion, have thick enough skin for it to be challenged. Otherwise; like they say, It is one thing for people to think you are a fool, its another thing to open you mouth and prove them right.

Normally when people have questions about about a specific topic, one would seek to find information from knowlegable people, or experts in their field. I find it rather irresponsible to seek advise from an unknown source, take that information and post it to another random source and ask for opinion from other random people.

About me,
My actual name is John, I am a male. No need for apologies, it was my fault for not properly introducing myself. I am the President of the National Tamaskan Club of America (NTCA), I am a committee member of the Tamaskan Dog Register (TDR). My Kennel name is Tarheel Tamaskan that is run by my wife and I. We have 5 Tamaskans in all, 3 of which were imported from Scotland, Germany, and the UK. After learning about the breed in 2007, we got our first puppy from the first litter to ever be born in the USA. From there we were hooked on this amazing breed. To date, we have only had one litter which we were very proud of. They all turned out to be fantastic looking Tamaskans,all meeting the breed standard.
I do consider myself somewhat knowledgable of the breed due to the time and research that I have put into the breed. Not to mention my personal direct hands on knowledge of owning 5 of these amazing dogs.

Do I think they have wolf content? Absolutely not. Is the breed perfect? no, But the breeders I associate with are here to better the breed through selective breeding, health testing, micro-chipping, DNA testing and analysis. The breed is not cheap, and it is not overly expensive. In the UK 1000 British pounds is the normal price. In the USA, $1600-$2000. This is from Registered breeder and not some fly by night breeder trying to make a buck selling a look a like or imitation Tamaskan. The Tamaskans is very inteliegent, Could I compare them to a Husky or Malamute, I couldn't because I never owned a Husky type dog before. Tamaskans can have good recall if the owner trains them well. Tamaskans don't normally have a terrible puppy destructive stage. They are rather laid back puppies. They are pack orientated, love other animals, children of all sizes, cats, bunnies, etc. They would not make a good watch dog as they would more than likely lick an intruder to death before attacking someone. They are very good at obedience and they love to work at some sort of activity. Tamaskans can get seperation anxiety is left alone with no interaction. This also may lead to destructive type behavior. Tamaskan are prone to Hip Dysplasia and breeders are required to test their adults befor mating and must pass with a BVA score of 18 or better. The current breed mean score is 11, with the median of 9, which in my opinion is pretty good compared to other wolf look a like breeds.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:02 pm

Belated welcome to the board. I always get gender wrong.

Wikipedia actually has panels of editors/judges(don't remember what they are called) that help determine the content of articles and what stays and what goes. I've seen transcripts where these people were debating what edits stay and go on some scientific pages. It is less randomly thrown together than people realize. You can make edits but people are watching. It can have mistakes like any other source but they do work hard to try and prevent it.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Ash » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:49 am

Welcome! Thanks for posting the videos of your Tamaskans. They are gorgeous animals and I can tell they are well cared for.

From your description it sounds like they don't have a high prey drive--unlike german shepherds and huskies. Would you agree with that? If they get along well with bunnies, they must be pretty calm dogs.

I'll look into this breed a lot more. I want farm land, orchards, and a private zoo/facility. It would be great to have some working dogs on the property. I really like dogs, and Tamaskans sound wonderful.

I'm really surprised that their price isn't higher. Is there a reason why they're not expensive? Are breeders in the US trying to make them more accessible as pets? Maybe I've just been looking at exotic animals too long--their prices are sky high, so $2000 seems on the cheaper side to me.

What kind of work-related activities keep Tamaskans busy? Do your Tamaskans have a large yard to run around in, or are they content to be kept indoors?

Sorry for all of the questions and thanks for answering the other ones.

Do you feed your dogs a raw diet? Some other breeders of rare breeds feed raw--like pharaoh hound breeders.
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Tarheel
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Tarheel » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:10 am

I think the prey drive on a tamaskan is a learned trait and that the dogs learn of know the difference between prey and pet. I have seen one of my girls pounce on a mouse in the back yard, toss it up in the air, catch it in her mouth and swallow it. I have heard of other Tamaskans snatching low flying birds right out of the air. One of my males was intrigued by the Koi pond in the yard and decided he could catch and eat his own fish.

One of the reason I feel that the Tamaskan is not more expensive is that, it is still under development, the large organizations such as the UKC, AKC, and FCI do not recognize the breed yet. I probably would not put them in a catagory as being an exotic, but more of a new rare breed.

To keep a Tamaskan busy, they just need human interaction. Going for walks, pulling sleds or carts. Mental stimulation such as Oberdience, Rally-O, or Agility training.
I do have a rather large fenced in yard for my dogs and the love to run and play with each other. But they love working with their human family even more. In the evening, the dogs jockey for position to see who will get to lay on my or my wife lap, and of course, after 30 minutes or so of getting head rubs, they want to switch owners. They are just as content indoors as they are outdoors. They do prefer the colder weather, but they can acclimate to hot summer tempuatures as well. One thing to be aware of, they can be escape artists. They break out of crates, and kennels, they can and will climb fences, they can climb over them. They can either leap over a baby gate or open it. Sliding glass doors can de defeated if not locked and so can your normal house door with door knobs. I havenot actually video taped or caught my Tamaskans opening a normal house door, but I assume they use their mouth to turn the knob.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Elina » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:05 pm

Gosh I have never heard of this breed before but they sound very interesting.

I can understand that the dogs often look quite different, I myself am in the process of sorting out importing an Alaskan Klee Kai and like the Tamaskan they are a "new breed" and so there are three sizes (toy, miniature and standard with anything being over 17 inches in height being "faulty" so to say), there are also on occasion pure white dogs born which like the over sized AKK they are disqualified from being shown or bred. SO I can understand that the dogs at this stage can take on a whole range of traits.

The ones I have seen look quite beautiful and I look forward to hearing more about them. :icon-wink:
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Puppycrush15 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:53 pm

The Tamaskans are gorgeous. Lately I have been looking into wolfy-looking breeds.

Not thrilled with the Saarloos wolfhounds, look way too much like dog to me.

The Czech. Wolfdog and Tamaskans are high on my list of interest. Though they don't have enough of a wolfy shape to appeal to me more than an actual wolfdog, the chances of being able to own the latter will probably become slim in the future.

This is a question for the Tamaskan breeder, and anyone else with experience with wolfy looking dogs.... The only thing I'd be worried about with owning a Tamaskan or any of dog of any wolfy-looking breed is that in the town I live, it will be mistaken for an ACTUAL wolfdog.

I am afraid of these following scenerios occurring:

Neighbors shoot the dog, mistaking it for an actual wolf/wolf hybrid
Animal control seizes my dog, thinking it is not a dog, yet an actual wolf/wolf hybrid
Unable to safely take the dog to the vet, pet stores, or other places for fear of arrest because they look wolf-like

Yes I know these breeds don't look EXACTLY like wolves; anyone who knows better could tell a difference. But people who DON'T know better can cause a lot of trouble. I've known people who would swear up and down that a regular old sable husky was part wolf. Idiots.

Thoughts?
And thanks for sharing about the Tamaskan dogs. They are lovely, I watched your videos on Youtube and everything.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Ciaobella » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:34 pm

Hey Puppycrush!
I'd suggest joining the forum if you cant read this post without, it would definitely answer your question there's just a few pages of responses so it would be a good read:
http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2376
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Realtree1 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:22 pm

So I have a question. I was looking for breeders of tamaskans after reading this thread because it made me very interested in the breed, and on Basalt tamaskans website under history it says,"The foundation stock consisted of the original seven dogs imported from Lapland, seven dogs were selected from Blustag Kennel, four dogs from the UK and two dogs from the US. Two additional foundation dogs were added in 2006, one in 2008 and two more in 2009. The TDR also introduced a Saarloos as a "one-time only" out-cross to bring some fresh blood in the breed." If this was correct isn't the saarloos a wolf dog hybrid like a Czech vlak? So wouldn't that mean that the tamaskan dog has a very tiny bit of wolf in its background? I'm not trying to cause a fight or anything here I'm just looking for clarification because I'm kind of confused.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby amyers » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:58 am

Puppycrush, if you buy from a breeder, chances are you'll get papers. If you're that worried about it you could keep a copy of the papers in your wallet/car to prove that it's a dog breed.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby RabbleFox » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:10 pm

Realtree1: All dogs have some wolf in them if you look far enough back. As the Tamaskan is now a registered dog breed, I believe it can no longer be considered a wolfdog hybrid despite the fact that its lines are newer and may have slight bit of wolf in it. I am by no means an expert but thats what I figure, anyway.
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby Realtree1 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:55 pm

I know all dogs have wolf in them somewhere, but the use of this saarloos sire would make the the amount of wolf a little higher and add to their appearance more. So I guess my main question was is it true that they did use a saarloos in the tamaskan?
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Re: Tamaskan Dogs. Wolf in them or not?

Postby RabbleFox » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:39 pm

The Tamaskan Dog Register site does not say that their is Saarloos in the breed. It does admit however that some breed records aren't avaiable!

[quote]In the early days, through selective breeding by a couple of people, these dogs were mated to perhaps pure Siberian Huskies or first generation crossbreeds. A couple of German Shepherds were also used and Alaskan Malamute. But after that, they were selectively bred to each other over a few years trying to create this wolf look-a-like. (Up until this time, no one is 100% certain of the breeding programmes, as no records were made available) ./quote]

[url]http://www.tamaskan-dog.com/History/history.htm/url]
[url]http://www.tamaskan-dog.com/index2.htm/url]
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