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suggested land size?

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Vata Raven
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suggested land size?

Postby Vata Raven » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:58 am

I have been tossing around the idea of moving to Michigan so my future planed arctic fox can have a snowy winter.

So, of course I've been looking into land and places to move, and that sort of stuff.

What would a good acre size be for housing two or three foxes? Well, I guess any animal can fit into this situation.

The current house that my mother and I live in is on 2.5 acres, with maybe half an acre of land where the forest was never cut down. That seems like a decent size of land, if you don't plan of running a farm, but I was never too sure. I mean, I know it's a good chunk of land when you compare it to when someone in the city only gets a quarter of an acre for an insane amount of money.
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby pat » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:49 am

Personally, I think the more acreage you can afford to buy the better, for the reason of neighbors.
the more neighbors, the more apt you can run into problems no matter how legal your fox is.
I assumed you already had a fox, or maybe in the past by the way you posted to me awhile ago?
thought you said, you already have the experience. can't remember for sure.

If you are planning to move to MI. I would assume you checked their laws on foxes? I can't remember what they are.
we have a link on the board here, which is probably more updated. I have one on my site:
http://sybilsden.com/reference/state-regs.htm
if in doubt call the states dnr, also you probably will also have to clear it with the county/township or city. where your house will be.

I know for raccoons, you are allowed to have them, but, they must be bought in MI. the problem there is, no breeders in raccoon breeders in MI that I know of. I think other species might have different regs :shrug:
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby pat » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:51 am

here is the link from the one of this board, which is more updated:
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=9103

hope it helped.
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby Vata Raven » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:54 pm

pat wrote:Personally, I think the more acreage you can afford to buy the better, for the reason of neighbors.
the more neighbors, the more apt you can run into problems no matter how legal your fox is.

Yes, but the more land you have, the more land you have to maintain. Our current home and land, we only have two neighbors. My general thought, once you get over 1 acre of land, you are hitting the rural areas, meaning less neighbors. Also, the more land you get means more tree removal, unless the place selling it already did that beforehand, then I assume that service was already placed into the land price.

pat wrote:I assumed you already had a fox, or maybe in the past by the way you posted to me awhile ago?
thought you said, you already have the experience. can't remember for sure.

I said no such thing. I am in the planning and research stages.

pat wrote:If you are planning to move to MI. I would assume you checked their laws on foxes?

Yes, I have looked into the laws. But thank you for the link anyway.
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby pat » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:50 pm

Yes, but the more land you have, the more land you have to maintain. Our current home and land, we only have two neighbors. My general thought, once you get over 1 acre of land, you are hitting the rural areas, meaning less neighbors. Also, the more land you get means more tree removal, unless the place selling it already did that beforehand, then I assume that service was already placed into the land price.
thats true, however, riding lawn mowers help alot and is much quicker to use.

no, more land is not always in the rural area. but, you know what you want, so may as well stick with your plan.
my views are, living in a rural area, less neighbors. also, in MI, (not sure) some cities might not allow foxes, you would have to check.
thats how it is where I live.

some rural has more trees, some have normal trees, some have no trees. again, you know what you have in mind, may of well stick with your plan.

I said no such thing. I am in the planning and research stages
sorry, I assumed that, from one of your replies to me awhile ago.
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby Ash » Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:46 pm

I don't think you'd even need 2.5 acres. (Unless you still want to make the giant pen, of course.) But if not, then you really don't need much. Just a large yard would do. If you think the land you currently own is easy to maintain, then something around the same size or slightly larger would probably feel real comfortable to you.

If you draw out the plans for your enclosure, it will give you a good feel of how much space you will need in your yard to carry out any other projects other than foxy projects. ;) But if you only plan to have on fox to dedicate your time to, then you could certainly keep it happy on land the size you're used to.
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby Vata Raven » Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:05 pm

pat wrote:thats true, however, riding lawn mowers help alot and is much quicker to use.

I'm not big on lawn care, lol. We currently pay someone to do all the basic yard work.

Ash wrote:I don't think you'd even need 2.5 acres. (Unless you still want to make the giant pen, of course.) But if not, then you really don't need much. Just a large yard would do. If you think the land you currently own is easy to maintain, then something around the same size or slightly larger would probably feel real comfortable to you.

If you draw out the plans for your enclosure, it will give you a good feel of how much space you will need in your yard to carry out any other projects other than foxy projects. ;) But if you only plan to have on fox to dedicate your time to, then you could certainly keep it happy on land the size you're used to.

My basic dream house plan, I want to run a deck along the whole back (the house being close to 50 feet long), this would be my base enclosure. I would then want to extend it out another 8 feet in all directions (aside from height), but this extended section would be of an “open” concept. This extension would have a fence covering as the deck is providing the roof, this also gives access to the stairs so they can get onto the deck itself, and there would be a pet door for them to get into the house itself when it is open (I see myself closing them out when at work). I would also want to have a basement built and this basement would pretty much be for my any future pet(s) I get, and food storage.

Also, my planned bedroom would be connected to the back porch, like; you can open the window and step out onto it. So, I was thinking of building a caged off section that follows the length of my bedroom (12 or 13 feet in length), this would be the sleeping and feeding area, and a good size area to keep the baby animal contained to until it is old enough for the bigger area. Having the cage there would also allow me to simply open the window and my pet can hop right inside if it pleases.

The house will not be fancy by any stretch of the imagination, but I can see the deck, under deck, and basement as a good enclosure zone. Plus, if the current setup doesn't seem large enough, it would be simple enough to extend it outward. 50 x 16 feet (and whatever the basement size would be) seems like a good amount of space for two or three animals.

I would love to fence in a whole acre for my fox, and maybe I slowly can over time, but I see that project being very costly. However, I would still want at least to 2 acres of land; this means less people are likely to be around and less to scoff at my pet of choice.

Ash wrote:But if you only plan to have on fox to dedicate your time to, then you could certainly keep it happy on land the size you're used to.

Nothing to extreme, maybe I’ll get another dog. I was tossing around the idea of raising meet rabbits, but…yeah; I would have to place them someplace else. I don’t see the rabbits being too happy if they live in the same zone as foxes.
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby Vata Raven » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:49 pm

@pat & @Ash

Thank you both for your input on land size.

I'm currently going back and forth on moving to Michigan or South Dakota, two states that allow exotics with basic permits. I think SD will win because it is a state tax-free state, and I currently live in TN, another state tax-free state. Makes sense to move from a state without state taxes to another one without them.
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby Ash » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:13 pm

Hope everything works out for you. :) Your description of the dream situation sounds great, and if you find the right place it is definitely doable. I like the idea a lot.

Let us know how your journey goes. If you have questions about county laws where you're planning to move, or city laws, just let us know if you need help finding the legalities.

I really hope everything goes smoothly for you. And that your future fox will be a great fit for you and your family. :)
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby Vata Raven » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:57 pm

Ash wrote:I really hope everything goes smoothly for you. And that your future fox will be a great fit for you and your family. :)

Thanks! I hope so too. Though, I think it will just be me, unless my mother plans to come with me.

Now, I just need to figure out how to enclose the bottom. I know I can just lay fencing down and end it at that, but I don't imagine any animal wants to walk on fencing.
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby Ash » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:27 pm

It's not so bad for them, especially since 1) not elevated, and 2) you'd be giving them stuff to walk on like enclosure decor, the deck, etc. So you could just lay it down if you wanted, but it wouldn't look as nice. My guys love laying in the dirt though, so buying some fill dirt and putting it over the fencing would be nice for your future baby. :)
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:16 am

Consider using vinyl coated wire to decrease corrosion if burying wire. Any part buried will corrode much faster than that only exposed to air. It will depend on some factors, soil condition, rainfall, gauge fencing but you will likely want to replace it after 10-15 years, if not vinyl coated but that still wont last forever, it will last much longer. You will want to wear gloves because of rust and such when digging up wire fencing. So non-vinyl coated should last the life of the fox but if you want another after would need to replace the underground wire.

One option might be laying paving stones then toss some gravel on top and the soil on top of that then the grass. So then they have to dig through soil and will likely stop at the gravel as digging will hurt the feet but if they don't it will slow them down and they will hit the paving stones which will be hard to move and get a claw between if tight fitted stones and should stop them. All this will also still allow drainage.

Might just consider sand on top of the gravel instead though. You'll never have to worry about mud.
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Re: suggested land size?

Postby Vata Raven » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:20 am

Ash wrote:It's not so bad for them, especially since 1) not elevated, and 2) you'd be giving them stuff to walk on like enclosure decor, the deck, etc. So you could just lay it down if you wanted, but it wouldn't look as nice. My guys love laying in the dirt though, so buying some fill dirt and putting it over the fencing would be nice for your future baby. :)

Hum, I will have to think about it. I was planning to bury it like 3 feet below, but I don't think it would be viable to bury below the basement floor line; plus, it would be a pain to adjust if I needed to expand the enclosure area (I don't imagine I will have to). So many small things to worry about, lol.

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