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Hybrid cat diet versus fennec fox diet

For species less common than reds and arctics.

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Bekki
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Hybrid cat diet versus fennec fox diet

Postby Bekki » Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:16 pm

Ok so I am a little curious as to the difference in requirements because everything seems to point to the same ingredients for me.

I currently have a savannah cat and bengal cat both are boys (so I avoid too much fish for their tendency to cause crystals) I feed primarily raw however I do also leave out a holistic grain free kibble in case they want to munch during the day. Following their nomal eating habits they eat around midnight each night and graze during the day with solid gold indigo moon kibble.
In their raw mix I mix it up sometimes depending on whats on sale. I typically serve ground pork with ground chicken thigh (more taurine) with one raw egg yolk, krill oil, crushed egg shell ( powderized- to help with the proper ratio per weight of phosphorous to balance out and help metabolize calcium) , add calcium powder, taurine, acidophilus (probiotic) and wild trax feline supplement. The added supplements are to help get the extra nutrients that the wild trax is a little low. Or not completely balanced for their weight. I also haven't gotten a bone grinder yet to grind raw bone which is why I added calcium and phosphorous. Thank goodness taurine is water soluble because they get a mega dose of it lol.

What changes or alterations would a make for a fennec. I have seen information stating fennecs eat closer to a cats diet and others say closer to a dogs diet. I am also not opposed to feeding meal worms as a treat since I used to feed them to my late hedgehog Artemis (passed away a year ago to this week).


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Re: Hybrid cat diet versus fennec fox diet

Postby Ash » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:28 pm

Hopefully others will chime in, but from what I've heard, insects/bugs are important. There were a few people who posted some really good fennec recently. I'll search a little deeper and see if I can find them.

Elina is very busy so you may not get an instant reply from her, but she has five fennecs (I believe) and takes amazing care of them.
3 red fox, 4 iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, tarantula
Bekki
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Hybrid cat diet versus fennec fox diet

Postby Bekki » Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:20 am

I've never fed crickets or locusts before but I don't have a problem serving them. My main concern is nailing a balanced diet. I put a lot of planning and thought into my fur babies diet and would do the same for my future fennec. I don't plan to get a baby just yet. I am thinking sometime within the next 6 months however.


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Re: Hybrid cat diet versus fennec fox diet

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:13 am

Fennecs and foxes in general need a lot less fat than is in cat food, so I would be inclined to cut pork as well. Fennecs also get a small amount of vegetables.They do need taurine. I might be inclined to use a canine supplement over a feline one. Cats can not make their own retinol(vit a) from carotines so cat food/supplements have a lot more in it than canines need and too much can cause problems later in life. Cats also get a bit different phos/cal ratio than dogs(and likely foxes).
Bekki
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Hybrid cat diet versus fennec fox diet

Postby Bekki » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:08 pm

My boys love pork which so why I mixed it in cats don't need fat in their diet anymore than dogs do. I feel like they eat about the same things however the vitamin a is a good point. The calcium/phosphorous is different from animal to animal it's based on weight. Both feline and canine eat animals and bone. The bone is where they get teir calcium and phosphorous if anything I would expect a canine to need a little more perhaps? I wish there was a net nutrient guideline for cats as dogs like there is for humans. And the cat and dog food labels are so vague that there's no way of knowing how much of each ingredient there is. Which is sketchy to me.. Part of my reason for prefering a raw diet. I know every last Ingredient in their food. =] plus my boys are so much more lively since I switched, I beleive Loki is allergic to something in a lot of different kibbles. Grain free or not. So the only one he has no response to is the one I leave out. Although he usually eats twice a day a nice big plate of my meat mixture and doesn't really touch the kibble. I wonder if anyone has any recipes for a raw diet for fennec. And what supplement mixtures are preferred on the market for them. What kibble do many of you fox owners feed? And reason for choosing that brand? Also in case you're curious http://www.wildtraxsupply.com
This supplement is meant for raw diets that I add my own bone which is why the calcium levels are so low.


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Hybrid cat diet versus fennec fox diet

Postby Bekki » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:13 pm

Also mazuri is another big company for zookeepers and a lot of the savannah owners on savannah cat chat referred me to it. It is formulated for slab meat (has higher levels of calcium and phosphorous no bone grinding required) it is labeled "carnivore formula" they make food for both canine and feline so I'm curious if this would be suitable as a supplement to give a fox. They provide food to many zoos around the us.


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Hybrid cat diet versus fennec fox diet

Postby Bekki » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:18 pm

And by the way I have seen blue buffalo wilderness mentioned often. I tried the wilderness for cats wit my two boys and even with a gradual switch it was nothing but vomiting and diarhea. No recalls that I could find on that batch. But a breeder friend of mine had the same experience when she tried it. Many other pet owners have had trouble with that brand not sure if it's an allergic reaction or overdosing on a certain vitamin that's messing with these animals.


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Re: Hybrid cat diet versus fennec fox diet

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:39 am

There are guidelines for dogs and cat that's where I got my info on that.

A gray fox owner was feeding cat food and it was getting too much fat and got fatty deposits in it's eye lenses but feeding a dog food fixed that issue.

Similarly a dog fed cat food will get obese and have many other problems one being a type of MBD where the bones in the spine fuse together starting in the neck, from too much retinol. The difference in dietary needs from one carnivore to another is bigger than most people realize.

One thing to remember is a multi vit will not always fix any gaps in the diet as is standard belief as you can easily wind up making an imbalance worse, like with the retinol.

There's AFCO standards, they do have the cal/phos the same for dog and cat though some other sources show it a bit different
cat
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 44&aid=657
dog
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 59&aid=662

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/managem ... imals.html

http://dels.nas.edu/resources/static-as ... al_fix.pdf
Bekki
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Hybrid cat diet versus fennec fox diet

Postby Bekki » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:26 pm

Thank you for the links, and my main concern isn't kibble but feeding raw. How else can I modify my current meal plan to suit a fox. So far I get that a leaner fat meat will be better. So I'll drop the pork and just stick to chicken thighs. But what other alterations aside from providing a different supplement. I don't use the supplement in addition to feeding kibble I use it to add the missing nutrients from what they're already eating ( meaning raw meat). And if I did feed kibble it wouldn't be until down the road after on a set eating regime. My cats have kibble out during the day as a backup plan but there was a solid 6 months they didn't have kibble out. While we were making the switch to raw. I would be concerned with proving a perfectly balanced raw meal 2xs a day in the initial stage of me taking in a kit. Especially since they are so young and growing.


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