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Pale Fox

For species less common than reds and arctics.

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Lostactunce
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Pale Fox

Postby Lostactunce » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:30 am

My girlfriend went on a road trip across the country with her friends. While in Florida she found somebody selling "Teacup Shiba Inu puppies". She called me and asked if we could get one. Of course I said yes, as we've wanted to get a dog for a long time. She paid $1200, which I thought was a lot for a dog, but what could I say? She brings this "puppy" home and it's NOT A PUPPY!!!! It's a Pale Fox cub! She feels really stupid, but honestly, to somebody who doesn't know what one is, I can see how it can be passed off as a puppy. Now I know why it was so expensive. She got it in Florida and we live in Oregon. All canids, other than domestic ones, are extremely illegal. I don't want this animal seized and euthanized, so we are keeping him hidden. He is maybe 6-8 weeks old and we've been feeding him raw chicken hearts, beef liver and Mazuri Feline Diet. I ordered it through our local pet store and had to tell them it was for my "Savannah Cat". Honestly, he isn't very difficult to care for. It's like having a puppy, if your puppy was on crack! He is a really good eater and scarfs down chicken hearts. He also really likes his beef liver. He is super curious about everything around him. His eyes almost seen disproportionate to his body. lol He is learning to eat the Mazuri Feline Diet, too. Like I said, he is a great eater. We've put some empty boxes in the living room and he loves playing in them. But, I honestly think he could spend 80% of the day eating if we let him. He reminds me of my old neutered Labrador Retriever Mix that would eat until he was a beach ball. He is a good weight, maybe even slightly chunky. I gave him a distemper vaccine at 6 weeks (when he first got here) and I just gave him his parvo vaccine (it's been about two weeks since we got him). The most important vaccination that dog-like animals receive is against canine distemper. I didn't use the combo vaccine, but did the distemper and parvo separately. I need to get him a rabies vaccine, but I don't have access, so I might have to take him to see my friend in Arizona, who does his own rabies vaccines on his dogs (it's legal there). In some jurisdictions, it is illegal to administer rabies vaccine to non-domestic animals. But, he is illegal to have anyway! I'm going to give him leptospirosis when he is around 12 weeks. We have a lot of rats and raccoons around our property, so I think this is a definite must. At 14 weeks I'm going to get him adenovirus, as it causes encephalitis in foxes. At 16 weeks I'm going to get him Feline Panleukopenia. The parvoviruses that cause parvovirus disease in dogs and panleukopenia in cats are quite similar and appear to commonly mutate and recombine with one another. Then, that should be all he needs for life.
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Re: Pale Fox

Postby Ash » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:16 pm

What a surprise, lol! I'm shocked anyone would be passing pales off as puppies. They're still pretty rare, but $1200 seems like the going price.

TamanduaGirl is in Oregon and is very knowledgeable about foxes. She has a USDA license, so is permitted to keep them.

If you did educational outreach and got a USDA license too, then it would be legal and you wouldn't have to worry.

Can you post a picture of your fox? Or link?
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, salamander, 3 tarantulas
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Re: Pale Fox

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:23 pm

That's weird. Pale fox are still pretty rare. But there's a pet store there selling fennecs so could see them having one and them not caring enough to ask if the person new what they were buying. I've not heard good things about them. So maybe she saw them there in a tank and didn't read the sign of what they were and guessed wrong.

Not a lot is known about pale fox but they are similar to fennecs, fennecs and grays can get distemper from the modified live shots so most people don't get them long as they are kept inside. Distemper is spread like a cold and only lasts a few hours outside the body so if not exposed to unvaccinated animals or walked outside it shouldn't be needed.

Some grays have gotten sick with distemper like symptoms and died after a combo shot that included modified live adeno. Owners mistook it for distemper but in these cases the shot was a recombinant distemper and it's possible they died from getting adeno from the modified live part of the shot. No postmortem testing wads done so it's not certain.

Personally I choose to only get a rabies shot for my fennec since it's the only single killed shot available. Parvo is only available as modified live but there is likely little risk of them getting parvo vaccinated or not. In more than one study on red fox they injected them with various strains, cat, dog and fox parvo and they never became sick from any of them. They may just be carriers. But would love to see more studies into it.

Some give the recombinant distemper to fennecs but it is only available in combo that included modified live adeno. Nut you already gave a single so must have been modified live. He's probably going to be fine since incubation is usually 2-3 weeks but can be as long as 5 so I'd wait till 5 week from the shot to give any others, if you do.

I just never have my fennec outside so there's no risk of him being exposed to anything. If I had fennecs or pales I was housing outside I would probably get the distemper combo shot but it's a tough call. trying to decide which is a bigger risk. I know one breeder who has her fennecs housed outside and never gives any shots.

Do you think you may move where he will be legal in the future? If not you might want to consider finding him a legal home so that he can get vet care and not risk being confiscated if anyone finds out. People have even lost illegal animal because they called 911 for an emergency and the animals were spotted while first responders were there.
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Re: Pale Fox

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:29 pm

Ash wrote:What a surprise, lol! I'm shocked anyone would be passing pales off as puppies. They're still pretty rare, but $1200 seems like the going price.

TamanduaGirl is in Oregon and is very knowledgeable about foxes. She has a USDA license, so is permitted to keep them.

If you did educational outreach and got a USDA license too, then it would be legal and you wouldn't have to worry.

Can you post a picture of your fox? Or link?


Oh I didn't notice he said Oregon. I have a migraine today. Yes USDA to exhibit would make him legal. A sticky point being the inspector will want to check that they got the animal legally when they apply. I got my fennec after I was USDA already. I got USDA for my anteaters, which are legal without USDA in Oregon but I did exhibit them so needed it. When I applied part of the initial inspection was checking my paperwork on them, that I got them from a USDA legal source, had the import permit etc.

Maybe if you moved him, applied saying your going to get one then bring him back, but then the date will be wrong showing you acquired him first but could say you had him at a friends place till the license came through. Licensing can take around 5 months or so. They take their sweet time arranging the initial inspection. Edit: The initial inspection is scheduled so you could move him for just that day and have everything cleaned up and maybe that would work then bring him back once it's done. And just keep him hidden till the license comes through. You'll have to exhibit him to keep the license though.
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Re: Pale Fox

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:00 pm

PS do you have any photos? I only know a couple people with pales but they do seem to make great pets.

pps: I'll be moving this to the fox forum but will leave a shadow top so it's easy to find
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Re: Pale Fox

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:22 pm

Personally if I had pale I would feed it similar to a fennec but more vegetation since the few studies on their wild diet I found showed them eating a lot more vegetation, making them the most actually omnivorous fox I know of. So whole ground rabbit(I order from hare today whole with organs and bones but no fur), a chick for breakfast and a decent side of veggies and insects. Where as Ikigai fennec's diet is that but just a bit of veggies.

The best kibble in my research is actually instinct ultimate protein canine.
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Re: Pale Fox

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:16 pm

Hope we didn't scare you off. Would love to hear more about him.
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Re: Pale Fox

Postby VRB » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:38 am

I hope your "Teacup puppy" is doing good :icon-wink: And pleeaase post a picture! :D :D

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