PUT EXTRA MONEY IN YOUR POCKET
https://www.ebates.com/r/SYBIL414?eeid=29041

After 44 years, Miami orca may edge closer to freedom

In the News - Articles/Links/TV/etc.

Moderators: Ash, TamanduaGirl

User avatar
KingObeat
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:04 am
Location: California......ugh

After 44 years, Miami orca may edge closer to freedom

Postby KingObeat » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:04 am

http://news.yahoo.com/44-years-miami-or ... 13745.html

If this whale's been in captivity that long, releasing it would be a really bad idea. This is like when they released the Orca from Free Willy, Keiko. If the tank really is that small, then I would support moving her to a better facility.
HumaneWatch
http://www.humanewatch.org/

United States Association of Reptile Keepers
http://usark.org/

Protect the Harvest
http://protecttheharvest.com/
User avatar
TamanduaGirl
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10026
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:42 pm
Location: Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: After 44 years, Miami orca may edge closer to freedom

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:20 pm

Lets take a pampered senior citizen and release her into the harsh wild, yeah bad idea.

PS don't mean her current situation is idea but pampered as in cut off from a lot of exposure to disease, well fed, controlled water temp etc.
User avatar
Juska
Posts: 2172
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:08 am
Location: Pennsylvania, US
Contact:

Re: After 44 years, Miami orca may edge closer to freedom

Postby Juska » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:29 pm

That's like taking an indoor potted plant that's in a somewhat too small of a pot and planting it out in the woods somewhere because you thought "This plant is better off in the wild than in a small pot! Surely it won't die after years of being taken care of and never being exposed to the harshness of the outdoors."

Freedom. Yeah right.

I'd like to see the people who cry that all captive animals/exotic pets "belong in the wild, because they're WILD animals" get dropped off in the middle of nowhere with no freaking clue of how to survive and see how they felt about that idea after a month or so when they're near death from starvation and exposure.

The real world isn't like The Fox and The Hound. Big Mama isn't going to show up and teach the animal how to survive in the wild.
Pet parent of Emo the border collie mix, Conte the schnoodle and Namira the harlequin cat!
User avatar
Nìmwey
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:17 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: After 44 years, Miami orca may edge closer to freedom

Postby Nìmwey » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:00 pm

Image

Is her pool too small? Yes.
Should she have been there in the first place? No.
Would it have been better for her to live in larger facilities with other orcas? Yes.
Can it be done now? Unlikely.
Can she be released? NO.

After all that time, almost 45 years, it's unlikely she could ever adapt to anything else.
She was just four years old (roughly anyway) when she was put in that pool - and had the companionship of another orca until she was 14,
and since then, she's only been with humans and small Pacific white-sided dolphins.

She was just a calf, it's highly unlikely that she remembers anything of the sea, if they can even think back like that. Her pod - why would they remember a calf they lost over four decades ago? How would they recognize her now, as an old (post-menopausal) female?
The few of them that are still alive, that is.

It's likely that being in that one, small, barren pool for over 40 years has altered her mind, it's shaped her mind, it's the only thing she knows.

People like to feel like "the good guys" fighting against "the bad guys". They love having something - someone - to rally against, and this someone is the Miami Seaquarium, it's SeaWorld, all the marine parks holding whales. Animals in the wild are suffering and dying every day because of human activities, but the "activists" don't care about that, because it's not "trendy" or it doesn't give you something, someone, to hate. In fact, it requires that the person themself makes some changes to their life, because animals dying due to their environments being destroyed, isn't the fault of some "big, evil bad dude", but it's the fault of all of us. And it's convenient for the activists to go to SeaWorld with angry signs and write uneducated posts on Facebook, it's not convenient for them to do actual changes to their lives that will actually make a difference and help animals.

The Southern Resident orcas - Lolita's population - are facing extinction due to overfishing, pollution and boat traffic. They haven't had a calf live in several years, and last year, we lost four animals, plus an unborn calf, out of a population of barely 80.

And people are suggesting we throw Lolita into that environment? Even the whales who know how to survive in the wild, can't survive there!

Again, Lolita should never have been in such a tiny pool to begin with, and part of me would really like to see her and Kiska (the loneliest orca in the world - Lolita and Kshamenk have smaller dolphins to interact with, Kiska has no one and does not participate in shows) moved together to another facility, or to SeaWorld with the other whales.
But at the same time, I wonder if she could even handle that. She's so aversive to change, she doesn't even like it if show schedule is changed. So how would she handle being taken out of the only home she's ever know, away from the trainers who love her, her dolphin companions, to a lone, polluted cove with strange noises and animals?

She would die within a year, I guarantee it.

And then the activists would say "well, she was old, did you expect her to live forever?" (The latter they actually said when Keiko died. At age 26.)
Lolita is the oldest captive orca alive, roughly 50 years old (the only one who might be older is Corky 2 at SeaWorld, but most seem to think they're both 49-51).
So clearly, despite everything, Miami Seaquarium must be doing something right.
Her teeth also look amazing, and she's performing and healthy.

First they killed Keiko - and now they want to kill Lolita (or Toki, as her trainers call her).

I know that most people truly have good intentions - it's so easy to see an animal like that, and you feel you just have to "save" it, as if you can just put them in the sea, and they will tear off like Mel Gibson and shout "FREEEDOOOOM", but that's not how real life works. That's anthropomorphism, and what we think, with our human emotions that animals want, is rarely what they actually want, or what's best for them.

It's misguided compassion, and that's something very dangerous.
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to have when we have land are camels, wolfdogs/wolves, coyotes or jackals, striped hyena or aardwolf. Also poultry, rabbits water buffalo and/or yak for livestock.
User avatar
Ash
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7739
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:38 am
Location: Utah

Re: After 44 years, Miami orca may edge closer to freedom

Postby Ash » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:14 pm

^^^Nimwey, you said that better than anyone has or ever could say it. My thoughts are yours 100%. They cannot just release her into the wild--that's killing her. Even shifting her to a new place might take a heavy toll on her and stress her out too much...

She needs to be somewhere where they can offer a MUCH bigger pool and companionship--though maybe she wouldn't adjust to companionship. How about instead of everybody spending all this money to free her (or should I say, "kill her") they actually set up a fund to expand her enclosure?? Now wouldn't that be the right thing to do.

But good luck getting activists doing that... They honestly don't care what happens to animals once they are out of human hands--when they're back in the wild, then it's just "nature," and who cares what happens. This whale probably has plenty more years on her. Let her live them--yes, let her live them better--but actually let her live them!
3 red fox, 4 iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, tarantula
User avatar
Nìmwey
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:17 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: After 44 years, Miami orca may edge closer to freedom

Postby Nìmwey » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:26 am

Nìmwey wrote:Her pod - why would they remember a calf they lost over four decades ago? How would they recognize her now, as an old (post-menopausal) female?
The few of them that are still alive, that is.

I actually looked this up the other day, and you know how many of her pod, a total of 36 animals, are still around from before she was captured?

"30?" False.

"20?" Try again.

"10?" Less.

"5?" Still less.

"..."

It's TWO.

Ocean Sun, her supposed mother (I say supposed because we don't actually know), and Ophelia, a female who was only five years old when Lolita was captured.
All the rest were born after that, and they don't know Lolita at all.

Corky 2, who activists have tried to get released for over 20 years (news clip from 1993: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzqI2HT3c9U and they still think "retiring her alone to a seapen" would be better than staying in the only family she's ever known), came from the Northern Residents, and out of her pod of currently 52 animals, only ONE is left since before she was captured in 1969 - Kelsy, born in 1967.
Her mother has been dead for fifteen years, and her siblings and other close relatives that are still alive (seen in that video I posted), were born after she was captured. They don't know her.
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to have when we have land are camels, wolfdogs/wolves, coyotes or jackals, striped hyena or aardwolf. Also poultry, rabbits water buffalo and/or yak for livestock.

Return to “NEWS”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest