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More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

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More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby KingObeat » Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:12 am

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 23206.html

The reptile industry is being dealt another serious blow. :-x :-x
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby Ash » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:47 pm

Yikes... Well I know there were a LOT of people who got their comments in on time, thanks to USARK. And they're quoted in the interview. Honestly, listing boas is EXTREME. Reptile owners and exotic animal enthusiasts need to blast these peoples' email and destroy their phone with phone calls--seriously. If they ban boa constrictors... honestly, I could see ball pythons soon too.
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby minervasden » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:22 pm

B. constrictor spared. Retics and additional anacondas added.

http://www.fws.gov/news/ShowNews.cfm?ID ... DECD13395B
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby Ash » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:32 pm

This is appalling... One would have thought that with all the flack they got last time they'd be more hesitant. What I HATE is there no proof of this being a federal matter at all, so really, this is an unacceptable, illegal step from the government (hence why USARK is suing them currently). This makes me so angry, I'm kind of beyond words.

I'm sure they're going to start adding some of the less popular species of pythons over time--like carpets and bloods.

I would say I'm shocked that this went through, but at the same time, I'm not. Man, this is going to be the end of all the beautiful reticulated python morphs. Bob Clark is devoted to that species 100%, and he's one of the biggest breeders in the world. He has SO many kept in warehouses that he works with. This is just a prime example how government overreach is destroying the lives of good, tax-paying Americans. Just because they'll take bribes from the HSUS.

And no, according to the first article, environmentalists did NOT applaud the passing of the bill. Okay, maybe there were a few "environmentalists"--you know, the ones that actually conducted the failed "study"--but people who truly understood what this was did NOT approve at all. Even AZA stood beside reptile owners to keep these animals off the injurious list. They have a bigger mouth than most of us, but still the government is no ears...
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, salamander, 3 tarantulas
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby Nìmwey » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:08 pm

So this is more of the "well we have Burmese pythons in the Everglades so that means every large snake can get invasive in the entire country"? :chair: And banning them from crossing state lines, or is it more?

And why is it just large snakes? Why couldn't small snakes turn invasive?

No, the anti-animal people are starting with big snakes first because A) they can sell the lie that they will all get invasive like the burms in Florida and B) people are more scared of big snakes, so they're easier to ban.

Just like how whales, elephants and apes are the easiest to ban in zoos, so they start with those, but they're coming for the rest.
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to have when we have land are camels, wolfdogs/wolves, coyotes or jackals, striped hyena or aardwolf. Also poultry, rabbits water buffalo and/or yak for livestock.
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby KingObeat » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:39 am

Here's USARK's response:

Constrictor Rule Finalized
USARK
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Today at 12:56 PM
Constrictor Rule Update!

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View it in your browser.
USARK Responds to USFWS Announcement

March 6, 2015, Loxahatchee National Wildlife Center, FL - USARK President Phil Goss publicly spoke out against the FWS decision to add four species of snakes as injurious under the Lacey Act today. Goss was in attendance when the announcement was made by U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director Dan Ashe to finalize the Constrictor Rule at a press conference. Demonstrating a pattern of government overreach and complete disregard for widely recognized peer-reviewed science, FWS will expand the Lacey Act’s injurious list to include the Reticulated python, as well as DeSchauensee’s, Beni and Green anacondas. Boa constrictors were not added.

At the public press conference, Goss pointed out the bogus science and noted that additional pet owners in 48 states were now being penalized rather than focusing resources and attention on the Burmese python situation in Florida. Goss also responded to questions from the national and local media in advance of, and immediately following today’s announcement.

Speaking to the Miami Herald yesterday before the final announcement, Goss said: “This is an extreme case of government overreach. Numerous professionals have spoken out against the junk science used to list the original species. This is not based on legitimate science or sound public policy.”

Special thanks to Matt Edmonds of Edmonds Reptiles, Lucas Matlock of Matlock Morphs, and other herpers who showed up to support the reptile community at the press conference. Edmonds provided excellent comments and questions to Ashe which left Ashe searching for appropriate answers. Edmonds made the reptile world proud today.

USARK has been in contact with legal counsel and is prepared to take whatever steps are necessary to fight this blatant regulatory incursion into the lives of pet owners, hobbyists, breeders, educators and scientists across the country. We will take immediate steps to amend our current federal lawsuit against FWS to include Reticulated pythons and Green anacondas which we expect will strengthen our case.

In addition, we are exploring all options including seeking a potential injunction to stop FWS from enforcing its new listing until a judge has ruled on the pending lawsuit. This type of Government abuse must be stopped.

One of the key counts in USARK’s lawsuit challenges the authority of FWS to restrict interstate transport within the continental United States under the Lacey Act. As stated in the original statute, the Lacey Act grants FWS authority to prohibit: 1) importation, and 2) “any shipment between the continental United States, the District of Columbia, Hawaii, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States.” (18 U.S. Code § 42) In other words, FWS can prohibit shipments from the 49 continental U.S. states to Hawaii, but cannot ban shipments from one land-locked U.S. state to another.

In other counts, USARK has challenged the basis on which FWS added the original species of constrictor snakes to the Lacey Act. The initial listing was based on non-peer-reviewed junk science claiming that Burmese pythons could survive winters in 1/3 of the U.S. Contrary to legitimate science and many veterinarians, biologists, physiologists and herpetologists refuting the faulty USGS study used to list these species, FWS has done as they please. This is unjust, overreaching and an extreme abuse of government authority. The Reptile Nation will prevail!
Frequently Asked Question (FAQ)

Q. What is this?

A. This is known as the 'Constrictor Rule.' This rule has previously listed species of constrictor snakes as injurious under the Lacey Act. That makes interstate transportation/commerce and importation illegal.

Q. Is this same as the Burmese python listing?

A. There were 9 species originally proposed. Four species were listed and the rule remained open. The remaining five species (Boa constrictor, Reticulated python, DeSchauensee’s anaconda, Green anaconda and Beni anaconda) remained in review. These species have remained in limbo following the 2012 listing of Burmese, Indian, Northern/Southern African pythons and Yellow anaconda, until finalization of the rule today.

Q. Is this new?

A. The threat never went away and it didn't suddenly re-emerge. USARK has remained active on the issue including a lengthy document delivered to the Department of the Interior (DOI) and USFWS during a Washington, D.C. meeting in April 2013 disputing the bad science that was used to list the original species in 2012.

Q. Is this a ban and are my pets illegal?

A. This is not a ban to own the species. FWS interprets this as a ban on any interstate transportation and commerce. It also makes importation into the U.S. illegal. This is a change to what is known as the "Constrictor Rule." If species are added to this rule, it will not make your pets illegal. You can keep your pets. You can get more pets of these species. You can even breed these species. However, as FWS chooses to interpret the Lacey Act, all those actions must be done within your state. You cannot get new pets from out of state, sell any offspring out of state or take your pets with you if move to another state.

If a species is listed as injurious, it makes interstate transportation/commerce and importation illegal (according to FWS). You could not take your snake across state lines for any reason; not to the vet, not for an educational show, not to a reptile show, not because you moved or were transferred for work, etc. Since interstate transportation is banned, breeders cannot sell or ship their offspring to those outside of their state. Any snakes you have will be legal to keep, you just can't move them. Essentially, the species may no longer be in the pet community as breeders would lose the majority of their customer base.

Q. Is this because large snakes may be considered a public safety risk or have anything to do with animal welfare?

A. The Lacey Act deals with injurious, similar to invasive, species. It has no jurisdiction over exaggerated public safety risks or animal welfare. While the animal right (AR) groups push for a listing due to these reasons, because even they know there is no legitimate science to warrant a listing on injurious grounds, that is not the role of Lacey Act.

View the FWS announcement at www.usark.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/0 ... -Final.pdf.

View this on our website at www.usark.org/2015-blog/constrictor-rule-finalized/.

So now reticulated pythons and anacondas will slowly disappear from the hobby. :-x :-x
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby Nìmwey » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:08 pm

This is disgusting.
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to have when we have land are camels, wolfdogs/wolves, coyotes or jackals, striped hyena or aardwolf. Also poultry, rabbits water buffalo and/or yak for livestock.
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby Ash » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:53 pm

I am hoping they will be able to keep fighting this. USARK raises a LOT of money, so they could afford to keep a lawsuit up and going. And if they could get the judge to put a hold on the listing until it's been battled out in the courts, that would be great.

This honestly is illegal over-reach--there is no argument about that. Nimwey, you're right. It's easiest to start with the "big, scary, man-eating snakes," but now it's going to get worse. They want to eventually restrict ALL boids (pythons and boas), but they need to take little steps to achieve their agenda. And once they're done with reptiles, they will move on to the mammal community too. They're creating a country where no one will have any purpose to breed these animals, and then, these animals will go extinct in the pet trade. And it's HORRIBLE because reticulated pythons have SO MANY different morphs now. Breeders will have to automatically just... stop producing, otherwise they'll just be overflooded with snakes that can't go anywhere.

I really wonder what Bob Clark thinks about this, seeing as he's the most prolific breeder of retics in the world and has access to all the morphs. He was already hurt business-wise when the burmese python was added, and then he had to stop his breeding program with them altogether.

USARK gets most of its donations from the ball python community. Ball pythons are pricey, and the big breeders at conventions will sometimes say "If this $10,000 ball sells, proceeds go to USARK." There need to be more people donating to their cause.

Yes, USARK's primary focus is reptiles. BUT they have proven to be just as concerned about the exotic mammal community. They are not as vocal about it, but sadly I think that's because they'd lose followers at this time. I am really hoping this lawsuit puts things in place once and for all and returns power back to the people of America.
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby Nìmwey » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:10 am

From Tumblr:
"By now most of you have heard that boa constrictors have not been added to the overreaching adjustments to the Lacey Act.
This is not a victory for the Reptile Nation.

While some may be breathing a sigh of relief, the remaining larger constrictor keepers are suffering. It is not okay for any of these species to be listed on the Lacey Act. It is not okay to think “Well, sucks to be a retic keeper or a green anaconda keeper, but boas are safe so I am good!” while going about your day. This is as much a loss for us had the boas themselves been added.
There are severe potential repercussions to this decision and the main one being that this will further fracture what already has proven to be a divided industry, despite the better efforts of many. They have done everything they can to make this divide between us complete, but we cannot allow it to stand. This fight is not over.

This is a call to arms; boa people, ball python people, chondro people, every single person that keeps a non-traditional pet, especially reptiles. Last night many of you were crying, many of you were screaming, many of you were banging your fists in anger and, today, we should all still be doing that. We should all be standing up and saying this is not okay, this is not fair and this will not continue. While the faith many have in USARK may now be damaged, such groups are needed now more than ever. Last night was a major dose of reality for boa people and today was absolutely devastating to retic people and to anaconda people. If you think that boas not being listed is good enough to no longer be concerned, then you are not paying attention and you are not part of the Reptile Nation.

People need to donate to the legal defense fund for USARK and support groups working with us, they need to support their local herp societies, they need to keep writing letters, they need to keep calling. We need to stop letting a minority of people speak up for the majority. There are hundreds of thousands of us, we have a voice, we need to use it.
Quit being an ostrich with your head in the sand, quit being apathetic; fight for what you love!
Wake up Reptile Nation! The alarm clock has been going off and you have been hitting snooze! The snooze button is broken and it is time to act is still ongoing.
I am going to keep saying it until people are sick of it. No one is going to fight for us. We all have to fight together.

They are trying to pick us off one by one to isolate us from one another; they think this will work and, if it does, then we have no one to blame but ourselves and we should be ashamed.
For any of you that do not know what the Lacey Act is, do your research! Knowledge truly is empowerment and if we have hundreds of thousands of empowered people, we can do anything, we just need to get people to believe in themselves and to make an effort for themselves.
This war has been long, it has been hard, it has been emotionally draining, it has led to the ruination of people’s livelihoods.

No more.

No more overreaching legislation, no more waiting for others to act, no more apathy, no more failure to speak up.

We have access to a huge portion of our industry via the Internet, we need to actually utilize that. We need to be sending so many e-mails that we bog down servers, we need to be making so many phone calls that we overload the lines. We need to show them our presence and show them that they will not beat us down and they will not win.

We are the people and we will deafen them with our voice.

Retic Nation, I stand with you.
Anaconda Keepers, I stand with you.
Burmese Keepers, I still stand with you.
Reptile Nation, I stand with you."
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to have when we have land are camels, wolfdogs/wolves, coyotes or jackals, striped hyena or aardwolf. Also poultry, rabbits water buffalo and/or yak for livestock.
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby Juska » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:56 pm

Just wanted to throw in, big companies like PetSmart and Petco that sell reptiles will probably be putting in their word on this, because if the animals they sell become restricted, they will be losing a lot of money. So you'll have their backing as well if legislation keeps pushing on species bans.
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby Ash » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:08 pm

I've been going crazy on facebook lately in all the reptile groups. It's SO frustrating when you have all the varanid keepers NOT supporting the snake owners. Honestly, monitors are coming up soon.

I just don't know what to do. USARK has united with all the different groups, and even the groups that used to criticize USARK have joined up with them to fight. The only thing to do now is... donate to the lawsuit, I suppose. But I've already written the letters, gotten family involved in writing, I have nothing else I can do to fight this. And it's not like I have buckets of money either to give to a lawsuit that'll probably take ten years to resolve...

I just feel like every time I turn around, we're losing. No matter what. It really feels hopeless. If they can add these snakes to the Lacey Act because they are only invasive in Florida--what stops them from banning anything now? Anything non-native is at stake here, and if this is not stopped, it's going to move away from reptiles and hit the mammal owners just as hard. They're taking away our rights, and they can't even legally DO THAT.

USARK is going to try to get the judge to put a hold on the ruling until it's been duked out in the courts. Reticulated python prices have dropped like CRAZY. You can buy the reticulated pieds (you know, the $20,000 ones?) for $1500 now. Breeders are slashing their prices insanely. I saw another reticulated pied that was auctioned and got up to $2500. This is literally destroying these peoples' businesses.

Everyone is trying to get as many genes as they can into their state before the rule goes into affect (less than 30 days). The reticulated python, like the ball python, has tons of different morphs that will eventually disappear. I can't afford to buy up all these morphs before it's "too late" just for the sake of my state... Some people are actually trying to do that, and it shouldn't have to come to that.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, salamander, 3 tarantulas
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:32 pm

They couldn't pass the bills that would make anything not on a safe list illegal so they are doing it this way. Picking the weakest off one by one has always worked though, in this case the weakest are the scary things most don't care about. And yep once they have precedent that banning a species just because it can survive in one location will lead to everything eventually because the US climate is so varied there isn't much that wouldn't live somewhere here. But it's not as in your face to people as when they tried to ban a huge chunk all at once. If they got the same backlash for each individual species as they did for a huge list of species they would get nowhere but people just don't care unless it's close to home.
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby KingObeat » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:47 am

I've been wanting to get a pure super dwarf retic for a long time, but they're pretty hard to find. I might have to hurry up and get one before people stop breeding them.
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby Ash » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:50 pm

Here is what Kevin McCurley of NERDS has to say:

** Taking a Deep Breath Here - Constrictor Rule **
Our argument against listing Green & Yellow Anacondas as well as Reticulated Pythons is STRONG! This we are sure of, the problem is getting this across in an arena that has the power to change.
How about, having a strong argument that has facts as ammo but has another element. How about if there was a glaring aspect that was hidden, something that was taken as a given when in fact it was not!
I can not let the cat out of the bag here but...... there has been something in the works since last year that is incredibly relevant and potent. Let's just say, the right people needed to see this and digest the facts. Now this hidden aspect is coming front and center.
There is more than a glimmer of hope here, I would love to clarify my cryptic words but that does not help anything and would only take away from the focus we currently are having. There is much going on behind the scenes.
USARK is on it, they know what to do with it, we MUST support them and believe in them. I have faith, we have THE weapon and now we are getting down to business. It is very simple which is wonderful, this is a rather black and white approach. In fact, I can not imagine how "this" could not turn things..... although I did not imagine luring teenage woman to join ISIS via social media would work either.
Stand strong, be focused, watch for USARK updates, support USARK and remain positive. When we ask for support, please do your best...... I think we are working on our most effective strategy yet!
EVILMORPHGOD - Kevin McCurley


Keep in mind, Kevin has not always praised USARK. This is a first, and he is "in the know" now, as are most of the big snake breeders. I am really hoping this means something positive will be happening soon.

Also, in the meantime, sign THIS petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/take-burmese-pythons-reticulated-pythons-and-anacondas-lacey-act/JV5jDMZv

^^That isn't a stupid change.org petition. THIS petition goes DIRECTLY to the White House, and if it gets 100,000 signatures, they are obligated to make a statement about it. Justin Beiber's deportation got that many, so why can't we??? Everybody must unite and fight against this. It literally takes NO TIME at all. You don't need to leave a comment behind--there isn't even an option to. Just sign it. Any animal lover (regardless of whether you're a reptile lover or not) must sign for the sake of my animals, your animals, and everybody else's animals. Please, please, PLEASE sign and share the link. The more signatures, the better. We WANT this to at the very least be addressed by the White House while the lawsuit is underway.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, salamander, 3 tarantulas
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Re: More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

Postby minervasden » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:26 pm

From USARK

"How can you help?

We are looking for pet owners or breeders who have been, or will be impacted by the FWS ban on interstate transportation of these species. If you qualify or know someone who meets one of the below situations, contact USARK immediately at info@USARK.org:

1. A pet owner or breeder who has any of the listed species and has a veterinarian in another state.
2. Military personnel who may be transferred and unable to take a listed species across state lines, or has already had to re-home a pet.
3. A veterinarian who may have a significant client base who brings any of the listed species to his/her office from another state.

The above can pertain to any listed species, namely: Reticulated pythons, Burmese pythons, Indian pythons, Green anacondas, Yellow anacondas and Northern/Southern Rock pythons."
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