NOTICE:

THIS BOARD WILL BE DOWN FOR A LITTLE WHILE. NOT SURE WHEN. I NEED TO DO UPDATES ON IT.
I WILL GIVE EVERYONE AMPLE TIME WHEN THIS WILL HAPPEN.

IT COULD TAKE ANYWHERE FROM AN HOUR OR MORE TO A DAY. LOTS OF WORK INVOLVED IN IT.
I MIGHT CHANGE THE THEME TOO. SO IF YOU COME ON WITH A DIFFERENT LOOK, YOU ARE AT THE RIGHT PLACE....LOL

help--need some ideas

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help--need some ideas

Postby pat » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:27 pm

Another one of my llamas is sick.
she seems to be acting the same way as Becky did.
(becky is the one that died about a month ago)

I found Jeanie(sick llama) down.. she will not or cannot get up.
she just lays there and shivers. I covered her with a blanket, and straw.
now she is beginning to go on her side with her neck stretched out.

I realize it is hard for anyone to pin-point exactly what is wrong.

Here is what I am starting to think.. Jeannie has an abscess tooth and it got infected and is now affecting her whole body. (which infections can do)

The problem at this point, I don't really have any vet anymore that will look at her, or even if they did, not sure if they would even know.

so, is there something I can do to check her teeth for starters?
I will begin giving her antibotics and see how she does.

However, I did this with becky, and it did help for about a month.

if anyone has any thoughts of what this could be or what to try, please let me know..

Thanks,
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

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Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:38 pm

Have they had their vaccinations? It could be Enterotoxemia(overeaters desease). We had a deer die from it she had her vaccinations but would have been due again in a month or two if she had lived so it maybe wore off early.

Llamas may also be subject to tuberculosis, Johne's disease, anthrax, malignant edema and tetanus.

Llamas require the same types of vaccines as livestock. Llamas can get enterotoxemia. Clostridium perfringens causes this disease. This is a very fast disease with diarrhea, convulsions, and uncoordination, and sudden death. The C and D vaccine is given to prevent this. This vaccine is combined with the tetanus vaccine and can be given as one shot. The tetanus organism is also from the clostridium family (Clostridium tetani).
http://www.krmllamas.com/llama_care_201.htm
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Postby prk22 » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:31 pm

Pat- I am not saying that I am a vet...but I work with them ALL the time ;) And we have a llama and a camel at the zoo that we see...but I want to try and shed some light and ideas to help you.

Can you please let me know the activity level- was it a dramatic decrease, gradual, etc

What is the water intake

Food intake before, and current

Shedding or balding?

Excretion output- normal, more, less...consistancy change?

Breathing/Heartrate- changes?

Pus or watery eyes?

Discharge from the mouth or naso cavity?

I will also see if someone knows of a call out vet for your area. Best regards are with you and your 'family'
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Postby pat » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:15 pm

Mary,

thanks much for the info. she hasn't had shots for a long time :cry:
she is acting just like Becky did(her momma)
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Postby pat » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:27 pm

Patrick,

Can you please let me know the activity level- was it a dramatic decrease, gradual, etc
it was gradual.. she was more on her own than wanting to be with the others.. this has been like this for several months.. I didn't think anything of it..
Yesterday, one of the males were mounting her.. I think the other male did also.. at that point, after I shooed them off her, I noticed she didn't get up, but, did look like she was dragging her hind end.. but, she did make it close to her house.. which would require walking up a small hill. If I had to guess the distance, maybe over 200ft she walked or crawled.

What is the water intake

I honestly didn't notice, because they have a stream they drink from.


Food intake before, and current
that has been decreasing gradualy

Shedding or balding?
No change on that.

Excretion output- normal, more, less...consistancy change?
didn't notice any change.

Breathing/Heartrate- changes?
breathing now seems to be more shallow.

Pus or watery eyes?
Not that I noticed.

Discharge from the mouth or naso cavity?
I did not see any.

I will also see if someone knows of a call out vet for your area. Best regards are with you and your 'family'
really do appreicate that. Dr Harvey (from Butler Animal Clinic) use to make house calls, but, now he decided he is not making them anymore :cry:

She seems to be acting the same way my other one did(her momma that just died) I just hate the idea of going through this all over again.
In the meantime, I will give her antibotic shots and see if she improves, otherwise, I might consider putting her down.. I just hate seeing animals suffer.. but, if I had her put down, I am not sure how to go about that.
I would need a vet to do it ,I guess..

What would be the symptoms if she had mengerie worm(not sure how to spell it) I thought maybe she has that, but, the way I understand this, is, it is generally transmitted from deer .. but, our property is all fenced in, and I doubt very much any deer ever get on the property. with 5 dogs, I doubt any deer would even come close to the fence..

Thanks much for your help


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Postby pat » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:31 pm

Patrick,

this is a link to some of the problems I went through with Becky(the one that just died) the momma of the current sick one.

Whatever was wrong with her, she had similar symptons prior to her death, but not near as drastic..

now, the sick one is doing the same thing, but, not as bad as the the info in this link..

http://sybilsden.com/llama/becky.htm
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Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:52 pm

well it's not over-eaters as thewy go down quick and fairly sudden from that but if she's been gradualy going down hill then it's something else.

Hopefully you'll get more help from the more knowledgeable members or even find a vet. You could get some oxbow critical care. Weather she's eating or not it should help give her system a boost.
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Postby prk22 » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:14 pm

As sad as this is- I think you are right on with the idea of Meningeal Worm.- you might notice that she becomes more and more nearsighted if this is the case.

I will tell you why this is my suspision:

These cases come about more in autumn and winter months...and they don't need to come from a deer (though you are right, a lot do). A deer could have leaped in, pooped, and fled the scene...or just a parasite could have came into your area (some way or another).

Another thing with these parasites on the farm- they usually show in one animal at a time...so to see it in the mom, and then the offspring- might makes sense. I think there is also a 2 (or 3) month gestation. So since there is that about that time between mom and baby- my mind goes there.

Unfortnately there is no way to test for this parasite in live animals- because by the time they loose complete control of their motor system, it is towards the end of their journey.

However, after this infected animal dies, there is testing that can be done to prove this to be true. If you don't want to go down that road, it is suggested to deworm all animals that share a common ground with the infected animal.

This is my suspision- I will try and log on from work tomorrow to write a follow up, but typically Fridays are the end of the week write up evaluations for the bulk of the animals, in addition to the ones in rehab- or in need of treatment. My goal is to help find a vet that will make house calls, but unfortunately- I know that this is a dying trend in a lot of medical worlds. :(

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Postby Lasergrl » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:25 pm

It does sound like meningeal worm. They can get it from eating snails, so even though there is deer fence it doesnt keep out snails. The worms are supposed to cause rear leg weakness, and unable to walk or exaggerated walking. It sounds like without a vet you are sunk, because they need to be on steroids as well as wormer. Without the steroids the dying worms can cause damaging inflammation in the spinal cord. It seems a little like when you treat for heartworm in a dog, you have to treat from different angles and the prognosis is still guarded.
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Postby pat » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:10 pm

assuming she has meningeal worm

I can call my vet tomorrow and ask if he will at least give me the medication she needs..

so I want to ask for:steriods?

should I still give her antibotics and panacur also?
she got a shot of each tonight.

she is completely down. she can't get up and is shaking.
she did roll herself toward the door. we rolled her back further to keep her away from the door..

can she survive this? she can hold her head up. but, later today, I found her on her side with her on the ground :cry: we picked her up to a normal position and she did stay. (but, not sure for how long)
she is not eating or drinking.. i left food and water for her.

I better give the rest of my llamas a preventative.
which one? the ivomec?


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Postby pat » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:33 am

I just thought of something, will this be contangious to my mini donkeys?

I will give all my llamas ivomec preventive?

what about my steer?
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Postby prk22 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:18 pm

Okay, the vet on staff today thinks your llama has meningeal worm too, by the sounds of it. I went to talk to a few keepers, and nobody knows of a traveling vet off hand- and they would have to get back to me on this issue.

I was told by the vet that if she cannot hold her head up, or take in food- it probably has reached her brain stem by now, which is not a good outlook.

As far as your other animals- take preventative measures and treatment to any animals that come on contact or share a common area as her. Keep in mind that this is something that does not show symptoms until after a month or so after the investation.

:? Not the best news Pat, I'm sorry :?
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Postby pat » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:52 pm

Patrick,

I really appreciate your support with this.. it means a lot..

I called my vet that use to treat my animals and left a message for him to call me back. I am not sure of the medicine she needs is a perscription.. I know the ivomec I can get at the farm store.

anyway, I am waiting for him to call me back. If I need a perscription, hopefully, he will fill it for me..

The llama is holding her head up, but, she does shiver all the time.
She is not completelty down on her side yet. she is in a normal llama laying position. all I can do is try for a few more days if I get the proper medication.. otherwise, I will have to put her down.. As I said, I just hate seeing an animal suffer, especially if there is little hope..

Thanks again for your help, much appreciated.
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Postby pat » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:24 am

Jeanie is doing very bad. If she is still alive by the time hubby gets home, he will have to shoot her :cry:

I called my vet yesterday and today. he was going to prescribe dexamethasone. I was going to go pick it up this morning, but, after the llamas condition, there is no sense in trying.. Her breathing is very shallow. after a couple days of pencillian and banamine and a dose of ivomec. there was no improvement at all. she just worsened.

The other sad part about this, is I can't find a vet that will put her down.
so, hubby will have to shoot her tonight :cry: It just saddens me that this is the way it will end.. If anyone knows of any other method, please let me know. I just hate the idea of her being shot.. but, I hate the idea of her suffering..

I have learned a lessen the hard way.. preventive ivomec must be given to llamas more than once a year. :cry: also, I have heard that sheep is also susceptable to this horrible parasite..

also, ratites will is susceptable to this, so to all owners of ratites, llamas and sheep, please vacinate a couple times a year. Probably more.
I am sure most of you already know what the best frequency is..

If there is other animals that are suceptable, please post.

Thanks for listening..
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Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:38 pm

all the animals got de-wormed llamas, donkeys, goats, sheep

My dad had to shoot a dog once, great dane. The neighbors poisoned her. She was in horrible shape and to make her wait to get to a vet would have been cruel. So he shot her. was one of the hardest things he had to do. But after he said he felt her spirit running and jumping around him happy she felt better.
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