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Are any of these in the pet trade?

Bobcats, servals, lynx, margay, anything smaller than a cheetah

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caninesrock
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Are any of these in the pet trade?

Postby caninesrock » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:03 pm

Caninesrock looking into exotic cats. Shocking, I know. :lol: I don't think I'd ever be comfortable with personally owning something the size of a tiger, lion, or even the size of a cougar, or bobcat or lynx sized. However, I found some wild cat species that are only about the size of domestic cats (maybe slightly bigger) and wondering first off if they are even available in the pet trade?

Bay Cat (I'm thinking probably not since wiki claims none in captivity and they are also listed as endangered, but just figured I asked anyway just to be sure.) (It's pretty awesome though. It has a beautiful golden color with a tint of red and it almost looks like it could be a mini-cougar.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_cat

Geoffrey's Cat (Looks kind of like a house-cat sized leopard. They also kind of remind me a little of the domestic hybrid breed Bengals.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffroy%27s_cat

Andean Mountain Cat (I'm thinking probably not since endangered.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andean_mountain_cat

Leopard Cats (Not the same as leopards, though they do look sort of like mini-leopards.)(I gotta a say, though, that I'm not that big on the looks of the short-haired subspecies, but this long-haired subspecies at a zoo in Japan is absolutely gorgeous:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_c ... at_001.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_cat

Iriomote cat(I think probably not since listed as Critically Endangered.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iriomote_cat

Flat-headed Cat (This little cat is ridiculously cute. Probably not available though unfortunately as it isn't very common even in zoos and is also endangered.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat-headed_cat

Rusty Spotted Cat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusty-spotted_cat

Jungle Cat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_cat

Black-footed Cat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-footed_cat




These 3 which seem to be considered the same species by alot of scientists:
Pantanal Cat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantanal_cat

Colocolo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colocolo

Pampas Cat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pampas_cat


And some Wildcat types:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat

Chinese Mountain Cat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_mountain_cat

European Wildcat and the Scottish subtype as well
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wildcat

Also interested in any other types of Wildcats that might be in captivity such as African Wildcats, Arabian Wildcats,etc.

Thanks.
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Re: Are any of these in the pet trade?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:33 pm

Geoffrey's used to be so still may be somewhere but they didn't breed well so not seen them for a long time now.

Leopard Cats and Jungle cats yes, they use them to make hybrids so you could get a pure too just would take a bit more work to find a pure breeder or someone wiling to do one pure litter.
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Re: Are any of these in the pet trade?

Postby GitaBooks » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:51 pm

That's so awesome. Wishing you the best with your research and plans. : )

I've done a lot of looking into Wild Cats (and other wild animals) in the pet-trade and have a pretty good idea which ones are there and which ones aren't. I hope this helps you with your searching.

Bay Cats are endangered, rare, and very little is known about them. They are not known to be kept in captivity, though perhaps a few are kept unknowingly by locals who perhaps suspect them of being another species.

Geoffrey's cats are kept in captivity quite commonly and are also crossed with domestic cats to create the Safari. They are said to be one of the more friendly Wild cats to keep, though they still aren't as good with the litter box and may be more prone to clawing or biting. You can choose to bottle-raise them or not.
There are a lot of breeders of both normal colored and black Geoffrey's. Geoffrey's are smaller then domestic cats.

Andean Mountain cats are very rare and endangered. They are not kept as pets, though some are killed by locals for their pelts or other body parts (meaning young might sometimes be captured by locals as well).

Leopard Cats are what are use to create Bengals and are very common in captivity. However, they tend to be more shy, reclusive, nervous, and prone to spraying, yowling, or biting then Geoffrey's from what I hear. They are, however, beautiful. They come in their regular form and as a hybrid with domestic cat. Earlier versions of the hybrids are more prone to health issues (due to the gestation and genetics not being compatible in the two species) and so I would suggest getting a 3 generation or more for health and behavioral reasons.

Iriomote cats are a rarely seen subspecies of the Leopard Cat from a Japanese island. They are not kept in captivity or the pet trade.

Flat-headed cats are very cute, its true, but they are not kept in the pet-trade and, as you stated, are rare in zoos. They have, however, been born in captivity.

Rust-spotted cats are not kept as pets in the USA or Europe to my knowledge, but they are said to be one of the best wild-cat pets there are, very tame even when not bottle-raised, energetic, playful, trusting, and smaller than a house-cat. However, as stated, they are rarely seen in the wild, let-alone in captivity.

Jungle Cats are bred and sold in captivity both pure and as hybrids with domestic cats (called Chausies). They are said to be a little bit more difficult then some species to tame when pure and need their space. They may be more prone to spraying or biting, as well as hunting smaller pets, but can be quite happy if given enough space, particularly an outdoor run (this may also help with indoor spraying, since cats prefer to mark outdoors). They enjoy attention.
Jungle cats are not as common as Geoffrey's, Servals, Caracals or Leopard cats.

Black-footed cats are rare in captivity and I believe very few if anyone has kept them as pets. I think this is because they are said to be very feisty (if I remember right).

Pantanal, Colocolo, and Pampas cats I do not believe are kept as pets, at least not in the USA or Europe. Pampas cats come in black and normal colored.

European Wildcats are kept in captivity, as are hybrids, but this is mainly in Europe where they freely hybridize with feral domestic cats. Some people may not even know they have a hybrid. European Wildcats are said to be extremely aggressive and incompatible with other species or others of their own kind. However, hybrids are likely friendlier.

Chinese Mountain Cats have been placed into a catagory with European Wildcats, along with African Wildcats and the Scottish type Wildcats.

Margays are kept in captivity, though not all that often. They are similar to Jungle Cats and Ocelots. When mixed with domestic cats they are called Bristols and some believe Bristols helped to create the bengal breed of domestic cat known today.

Jaguarundis are not kept in captivity, though there is a breed of domestic cat called a Jaguarundi Curl (it is not believe to be a true hybrid though). Jaguarundis are like miniature cougars that come from South America. They come in many different shades and colors.

Oncilla or Tiger Cat. I know they are kept in captivity, but I don't know if they are kept as pets, certainly not regularly. They are found in South America and related to Margays and Ocelots.

Sand Cats are kept in the pet trade, though it is rare, more so then some of the other species. They are said to be docile, and a number were collected for the pet trade, but they can be difficult to keep well. They are small and prefer warm, dry environments.

Fishing Cats are kept in the pet trade and are said to be rather docile, even when not handled a lot. They are also said to be trainable. They need a lot of play time and a large amount of space to get their energy out and to allow them to behave naturally, including to indulge in their instinctual love of swimming or playing in the water.

Pallas cats are not kept as pets that I know of, though they are found in zoos.

Marbled cats are not kept as pets that I know of, though they are around the size of a Ocelot or Margay I think.

The Kodkod is not kept as a pet that I know of, though it does come in different shades of colors and is kept in zoos.

I hope this helps some. : )
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Re: Are any of these in the pet trade?

Postby caninesrock » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:27 pm

@TG. OK. Thanks for letting me know. I also knew that Jungle Cats are used to make a breed called Chausie but didn't know if any
pure Jungle Cats were still in captivity and that Bengals were from Asian Leopard Cats but didn't know if any pure were still in
captivity either. I'm also interested in the Chausie and Bengals, but they are both considered domestic breeds now I think, so not
truly exotic anymore.

@Gitabooks:

Oh wow. That's super helpful. So, if I understood right, these are cats that I could find as pets:

Geoffrey's cats

Leopard Cats

Jungle Cats

European Wildcats

Margays

Sandcat

Fishing Cat




That's interesting about the Saafari cat. I'd heard of the Chausies and Bengals before, but never of the Safari. Thanks
for letting me know about another semi-exotic domestic breed to look into. :)

I really like the look of lower generation Bengal cats, so I might consider them over a pure Asian Leopard Cat if the pure Leopard Cats
are shy and aggressive.

So, Jungle Cats need an outdoor enclosure then? In that case, I might just go with the Chausie breed rather than a pure Jungle Cat.
Also, while I have no pets at the moment, I do plan on getting lots of different pets once I'm in a different living situation
and have better finances, so probably not good to have something that will attack all my other animals.

The European Wildcats are only in Europe though or are there any breeders in the US? If not, can captive-bred ones be imported from
somewhere in Europe, like England or something? How hard would that be to get them imported? I'd also have the same problem though
if they don't get along with other animals or even with other cats as I want to one day own at least one domestic cat as well and also
dogs, and possibly smaller exotics like sugar gliders, hedgehogs, and prairie dogs.

Never heard of a Bristol before. Is that breed recognized like Bengals and Chausies and does anybody still breed them? What do they look
like? Not too interested in the look of the pure Margays for some reason though.

I've seen the Sand Cats being talked about in other topics before. Yes, they are adorable and look like kittens as adults, but I read
that they are very inbred and often die of health complications because the captive gene pool is so small.

Not too fond of the Fishing Cat's looks and they also sound like they need an outdoor enclosure of some sort. Thanks for the info
on them though. They do sound kind of interesting personality-wise, however.
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Re: Are any of these in the pet trade?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:13 pm

One guy had a jaguraundi and tried to make hybrids but it never happened. But he had to have a special license as they are listed as endangered in USA, though not in other countries.

Laser girl imported a Geoffrey's before. It didn't do well and died. I thought they were fairly hard to keep and harder to cross than some of the others.
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Re: Are any of these in the pet trade?

Postby minervasden » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:39 pm

TamanduaGirl wrote:Laser girl imported a Geoffrey's before. It didn't do well and died. I thought they were fairly hard to keep and harder to cross than some of the others.


It was the Sand Cat which was imported and then died. http://sybilsden.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6617
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Re: Are any of these in the pet trade?

Postby caninesrock » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:38 pm

A little off topic from the original post, but what about hybrid cat breeds?

So far, I found Savannah Cat (serval hybrid), Bengal Cats (leopard cat hybrid), and Chausies(Jungle Cat hybrid), all of which I know are in the pet trade. I also just learned about the Safari Cat (Geoffrey's Cat hybrid) here in this topic.

Then, there are others mentioned on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felid_hybrid that I can't find much info on like the

Kellas Cat (which is a hybrid between a European (Scottish) Wildcat and Domestic Cat) (I don't think its really a breed so much though as a naturally occurring hybrid but not sure if anyone is intentionally breeding them in captivity).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kellas_cat

Euro-chaus and Euro-chausie (Euro Chaus is a cross between a European Wildcat and a Jungle Cat, so full exotic.) (Euro-Chausie is a cross between a European Wildcat and a Chausie cat, so hybrid domestic.)

There's also the Afro-chaus which is a cross bewteen a Jungle Cat and African Wildcat.

And the Scottie-Chausie (proposed name): Chausie/Scottish wildcat (F. s. grampia)

Bristol (Domestic cat and Margay)(Mentioned here but can't find much info on them)

Stone Cougar (Domestic Cat x Jungle Cat) (Same as Chausie?)

Jungle-bob: Pixie-bob/jungle cat

Jungle-curl: Hemingway Curl (polydactyl x American Curl)/jungle cat

Machbagral, Viverral and Jambi: domestic cat/fishing cat (Prionailurus viverrinus)

Pantherette: Pixie-bob/Asian leopard cat (Prionailurus bengalensis)

Punjabi: domestic cat /Indian desert-cat (a variety of Asiatic wildcat - Felis s. ornata)

Ussuri: domestic cat/Amur Asian leopard cat (Prionailurus b. euptailura)

Not breeds, but crosses:
Domestic cat/caracal (accidental, Moscow Zoo, 1998)
Domestic cat/oncilla (little spotted cat or tiger cat)
Domestic cat / black-footed cat (F. nigripes)
Domestic cat/rusty-spotted cat (Prionailurus rubiginosus) (wild-occurring hybrids, India)
Domestic cat/ocelot. Two litters of confirmed hybrids between a female ocelot and male Bengal were born in 2007 and 2008.
Domestic cat/Sand cat. Kittens were born to a domestic female, sired by a male Sand Cat, in 2013.

Then, there's the Pixie-bob, which is supposedly part Bobcat, but it hasn't been proven:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixie-bob

There's also this site which claims to be selling crosses between bobcats, jungle cats, and asian leopard cats. I can't tell if they are claiming domestic cat blood as well or not though:
http://www.mokavecats.com/


And from here are more breeds:
http://www.cat-breed-info.com/hybrid-cat-breeds.html

The Caracat

The Caracat is a cross between a domestic cat and a Caracal. This hybrid is due to an accidental mating in the Moscow Zoo in 1998.

The Jaguarundi Curl

The Jaguarundi Curl is a cross between a domestic cat and a Jaguarundi.


And from here:
http://www.infobarrel.com/Even_More_Hybrid_Animals
The mandalan jaguar is another one that is said to be a combination between a domestic cat and a jaguarundi.


Other crosses from here:
http://pictures-of-cats.org/wildcat-hybrids.html

Unnamed: domestic cat X African Wild cat (F. lybica)









Note: I purposefully didn't include breeds that only originated form crossing Bengals with another breed of domestic cat since they're not really true hybrid in my opinion at least. So, that's why things like the Cheetoh, Toyger, Serengeti,Mohave Spotted Cat (though this one is also rumored to supposedly be part bobcat), etc. aren't mentioned above.
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Re: For All the Single People On the Board Who Own Exotics

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:51 pm

Oh, oops, well she had a Geoffrey's too I believe but the archives don't go back that far any more. Must have gotten them mixed up.
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Re: Are any of these in the pet trade?

Postby GitaBooks » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:42 pm

Learning about all the different cats and their hybrids is a lot of fun. : )

Bengal breeds are only considered domestic after 4 generations, since it is at this point that both males and females are fertile, before this only the females are fertile and most males will be sterile and unable to breed. Also, their behavior and appearance is unpredictable, meaning they are not consistent and so not considered a true breed, only a hybrid. There are some breeders who only breed the truly domestic ones and others who go for the early generation market. No matter what make sure they are good breeders, as there are lots of scammers out there for both varieties.
Same for the Chausie, Safari, Savannah, and other mixes.

Bristol cats are considered extinct to by knowledge and Safari's and Chausies are both more rare then Savannahs or Bengals (which are being selected for domestication and breed-standard). According to pictures Bristol's looked almost exactly like Bengal cats and it is said they were the ones to introduce the rosettes into the breed.

Each animal is an individual, so it can be hard to guess their personality, but I will say the issue with wild cats as pets isn't really that they are naturally aggressive or nervous necessarily, but that when bottle-fed for tameness they can have issues with unpredictable behavior. I have seen this and read about this is various other wild and domestic species. Hand-raised llamas sometimes even try to kill people when they mature.

As for your question about European Wildcats in the US, I'm not sure. Because they aren't in need of captive breeding I don't think there are many public or private facilities working with them. However, there may be some that work with the lesser known subspecies that has extras in the USA. Animals with health problems cannot be bred and are sometimes given away to good owners.

As far as I know Bobcats have not bred with domestic cats (genetic testing has been done and so far shown no Bobcat genetics). For this reason, anyone claiming to have Bobcat mixes either is trying to get extra money or hasn't done a lot of research into the genetics of the breed they are working with. While there are some domestic cats that look remarkably like Bobcats, the stump-tail gene is found all over the world and is not caused by hybridization with wild cats, nor are the fur-tips on the ears or the coloration.


That's some cool information on hybrids by the way. Thanks for sharing it. : )
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Re: Are any of these in the pet trade?

Postby Ash » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:32 pm

She may still have the Geoffrey's since she wasn't in any rush to sell and wanted him to go to a knowledgeable home or breeder.

The sand cats are a favorite of mine. I like their little square heads, heehee. Would love to somehow have one someday and aid with conservation...

Did you mention Pallas cats? You can get pallas cats, but they are expensive. I believe about $10,000 if I'm remembering correctly. That was about 4-5 years ago.

I'd also love to see someone import the melanistic servals. Wow. Those are gorgeous animals.
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Re: Are any of these in the pet trade?

Postby naja-naja » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:32 am

have you considered a savannah or bengal? if you're looking for something domestic sized maybe a half domestic might work?
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Re: Are any of these in the pet trade?

Postby caninesrock » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:41 pm

Yes. I have considered both Savannahs and Bengals as well as Chausies and Safaris and for pure wild cats, I am considering the Geofferey's Cat, Jungle Cat, Leopard Cat, and if I can find someone who can import some from Europe, then a very big maybe on European and Scottish Wildcats but since they would have to be imported and I'd have to deal with finding an importer and all that, I more than likely will end up never having them even though I think they are gorgeous and unique looking.
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