Rant on a thing

Hunting/Farming/Taxidermy, any topic that may get heated debate.

WARNING things may get a bit rougher here than the other forums.

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Re: Rant on a thing

Postby Ash » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:32 am

"We DO NOT condone or support in any way the keeping of sloths as pets. Nor will we provide any information to to anyone who is not affiliated with at accredited zoo or wildlife center."


Maybe I was wrong to assume otherwise. :( She always seems pro-exotic in her posts though, so I'm not sure why she would have that on her website except if she truly DOES believe that. And if she truly does, then that's NO good... I understand where she'd be coming from, but that does NOT excuse the change.

I don't understand why she wouldn't share information. :/ That part is what concerns me the most about that quote, tbh.

It sounds like she's becoming jaded toward the exotic pet community, like she's seen many examples of poor care and therefore deems "regular people" unfit to keep these animals. I wouldn't compare her to Carole Baskin (that woman is absolutely horrendous), but I see what you mean about her slipping to be an anti. That's a shame. I really looked up to her.

I hope she changes back to what she was before. I really do.
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Re: Rant on a thing

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:54 am

That quote isn't from her website though she did say it somewhere.

This is her current statement from the FAQ page, not quite as harsh.

"Q: Do you sell animals to the public as pets?
A: Sloths are not pets - for many reasons. That being said, if we do have surplus animals, we will place them out at other zoological facilities. As of roughly five years ago (2010ish), we no longer place our sloths out because of the fact that they require such highly specialized care. We have utilized websites that are designed for zoological facilities to advertise surplus animals and for them to post that they are seeking certain species of animals. Since the Internet can be accessed by anyone, some websites were accessed by the public in the civilian search for exotic animals to keep as pets. We do not sell to "pet" homes any species in which we house. It would be irresponsible of us to keep every animal born at our facility considering that we focus on rare and endangered species. Exchanging animals with other facilities is how we keep bloodlines broadened as well as working with multiple species in the Species Survival Program."
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Re: Rant on a thing

Postby Buggle » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Ash wrote:
"We DO NOT condone or support in any way the keeping of sloths as pets. Nor will we provide any information to to anyone who is not affiliated with at accredited zoo or wildlife center."


Maybe I was wrong to assume otherwise. :( She always seems pro-exotic in her posts though, so I'm not sure why she would have that on her website except if she truly DOES believe that. And if she truly does, then that's NO good... I understand where she'd be coming from, but that does NOT excuse the change.

I don't understand why she wouldn't share information. :/ That part is what concerns me the most about that quote, tbh.

It sounds like she's becoming jaded toward the exotic pet community, like she's seen many examples of poor care and therefore deems "regular people" unfit to keep these animals. I wouldn't compare her to Carole Baskin (that woman is absolutely horrendous), but I see what you mean about her slipping to be an anti. That's a shame. I really looked up to her.

I hope she changes back to what she was before. I really do.


I should have clarified that I received this message from her or her affiliates asking that I remove information that I had on my Hubpages (with credit to her) that I retained from her articles back when she had caresheets. I intended to use this information myself should I ever progress to more difficult species. She said the information was "antiquated" and as the quote shows she won't provide me with any new information. So, should I ever decide I want to try with a sloth, I'll know that there is information out there that could potentially prevent a mishap that she is refusing me because I'm not licensed. In other words, MY PET COULD DIE DUE TO ELITISM. I was also just really hurt to receive a message like that from my pages where I am fighting to protect the lifestyles of people like her and I have or had similar aspirations. I'm thinking I should try to put more time into gardening since this exotic pet stuff is so painful and stressful.

I'm so utterly sick of the use of the words such as "zoological facility", "conservation center" ect., that seem to suggest 'higher education' but are mostly just privileged people with no more knowledge or capabilities than I have. That kind of stuff is just killing us. Exotic pets are for privileged and social people with friends in the right places and if I have any kyrptonite, it's 'friends' and 'popularity'. Thank the heavens for Kapy'iva Exotics one of the few remaining non-elitist breeders.
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Re: Rant on a thing

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:07 pm

I agree with that sentiment. I want the best info out there on anteaters to help save their lives and make their lives longer and better. I'm also not above acknowledging mistakes. Someone in Japan wrote me to ask about my advocating formula in my care sheet. I reread it and found the info and updated to clarify. This person explained that in Japan they were continuing to feed formula to adults and causing premature deaths because of the retinol in it. So I updated my care sheet to clarify it should only be used in adults to get them eating then wean them off of it.

No good reason to keep good care info secret. It's not like you can patent it and make money. Maybe could write a book on the care but even when I do write my fennec fox care book I wont be taking my free info down. I want all fennecs and anteaters to live longer and better lives, not just mine.
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Re: Rant on a thing

Postby Buggle » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:02 am

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but Bora just introduced me to a lovely website, The Wayback Machine, really gives some perspective. On November of 2010, the Chasing-Tail website went from this: https://web.archive.org/web/20111028035918/http://www.chasing-tail.com/ ... to this: https://web.archive.org/web/20111127202014/http://www.chasing-tail.com/

Her older page was amazing. Right there at the top, "SUPPORTING RESPONSIBLE EXOTIC ANIMAL OWNERSHIP" There are caresheets, blogs, and the word 'pet' is used constantly. It is an informal, unashamed, pro-pet ownership site.

Then, overnight, the new page becomes "ENDANGERED PLANET ZOOLOGICAL GARDENS" and "Zoological Wildlife Propagation, Education & Captive Husbandry Research". The word "pet" is completely GONE. Try it, I used Ctrl F, put in the word pet. It's gone (except when meaning 'petting')! What I find particularly deplorable is how she won't even acknowledge this change to people. She still enjoys the exotic pet lifestyle (buying, breeding, importing, even from the wild) , but likes to come off as some restrictive AZA facility, making up excuses that she hopes the public will buy, to suggest it is some conservation and educational duty for her to maintain the most awesome collection of animals as pets while it is unacceptable for 'civilians' to do so. There's so much to loathe here, such as the suggestion that keeping exotic pets needs justification (a problem I have with so many zoos making 'excuses' claiming conservation and education, suggesting captivity is 'wrong' 'unless..'), the blatant and obvious lying/double speak (her critics would have a field day with this information), and her making money selling 'encounters' with the so-called sensitive and delicate species because me keeping it as a pet = terrible but when it comes to lining her pockets a little stress never killed anyone, right? This is despicable.

By the way, here is the Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/18fxwb/the_sloth_center_in_rainier_or_1hr_from_portland/#bottom-comments

Example of double speak: "Are you engaged in the selling of exotic animals to private owners other than zoos or conservation centers/sanctuaries?"

"IT SIMPLY IS NOT AS BLACK AND WHITE AS THAT AND WE WILL NOT HAVE THINGS TWISTED BECAUSE SOMEONE IS MISINFORMED OR DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF HOW PROJECTS ARE ORGANIZED. WHEN WE HAVE "OVERSTOCK" WE DO PLACE THEM ON THE MARKET TO BE PURCHASED BY CONCERNS THAT NEED THAT PARTICULAR SPECIES FOR A SPECIFIC PROJECT, WHETHER THAT BE OUT-REACH, EDUCATION, BREEDING, OR (CRINGE) "FOR PUBLIC ENTERTAINMENT" AT A ZOO (WE REITERATE - SOME SPECIES HANDLE THIS BETTER THAN OTHERS - I AM NOT "AGAINST" PUBLIC DISPLAY ENTERTAINMENT AT ZOOS - IF DONE ACCORDING TO WHAT THE SPECIES NEEDS NOT WHAT THE HUMANS WANT). WE BELIEVE THE ANSWER TO THE BELOW WILL BETTER ANSWER WHAT WE BELIEVE IS YOUR UNDERLYING CONCERN."

Answer should have been: Yes I sell to responsible private owners and there is nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Rant on a thing

Postby Ash » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:18 pm

Seeing all this makes me want to go change my website up for the better. Right now I come across as a zoological facility, but I also want to encourage private ownership. I have fox caresheets on my site. Do I come across as hypocritical on mine? https://www.wildhearts-exoticanimals.com/
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Re: Rant on a thing

Postby Peacefulward » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:16 pm

Ash wrote:Seeing all this makes me want to go change my website up for the better. Right now I come across as a zoological facility, but I also want to encourage private ownership. I have fox caresheets on my site. Do I come across as hypocritical on mine? https://www.wildhearts-exoticanimals.com/


I didn't know you had a website, looks good!
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Exotic "wishlist": red fox, mink, fennec fox, lemur (brown or white ruffed), egyptian fruit bat.
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Re: Rant on a thing

Postby Ash » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:41 pm

Thank you. I just don't want to come across like I'm superior to other people, or that because I'm USDA I can have exotics and the public can't. I want to remain being a facility that is pro ownership.
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Re: Rant on a thing

Postby TurkRoach » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:26 am

Buggle wrote:"IT SIMPLY IS NOT AS BLACK AND WHITE AS THAT AND WE WILL NOT HAVE THINGS TWISTED BECAUSE SOMEONE IS MISINFORMED OR DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF HOW PROJECTS ARE ORGANIZED. WHEN WE HAVE "OVERSTOCK" WE DO PLACE THEM ON THE MARKET TO BE PURCHASED BY CONCERNS THAT NEED THAT PARTICULAR SPECIES FOR A SPECIFIC PROJECT, WHETHER THAT BE OUT-REACH, EDUCATION, BREEDING, OR (CRINGE) "FOR PUBLIC ENTERTAINMENT" AT A ZOO (WE REITERATE - SOME SPECIES HANDLE THIS BETTER THAN OTHERS - I AM NOT "AGAINST" PUBLIC DISPLAY ENTERTAINMENT AT ZOOS - IF DONE ACCORDING TO WHAT THE SPECIES NEEDS NOT WHAT THE HUMANS WANT). WE BELIEVE THE ANSWER TO THE BELOW WILL BETTER ANSWER WHAT WE BELIEVE IS YOUR UNDERLYING CONCERN."


Well, someone has won the Pretentious Olympics...
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Re: Rant on a thing

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:33 pm

Your site is good Ash. There are a lot of bad fox owners but I think the difference is trying to say how to do it right and what to expect so people have realistic expectations rather than saying only special people or even no one should do it.
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