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Crap... not another one

Hunting/Farming/Taxidermy, any topic that may get heated debate.

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Nìmwey
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Crap... not another one

Postby Nìmwey » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:44 am

http://thechronicleherald.ca/artslife/1 ... ocumentary

Yet another piece of sensationalist propaganda, meant to hurt exotic pets and their owners, on its way.

:wall:
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to have when we have land are camels, wolfdogs/wolves, coyotes or jackals, striped hyena or aardwolf. Also poultry, rabbits water buffalo and/or yak for livestock.
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby KingObeat » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:53 am

Hopefully this film won't get as much attention as The Elephant in the Living Room.
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:41 pm

Reports are it's not as bad. They have "experts" in it say it's bad but were fair in their portals of the owners and their animals as well. So it's more balanced. Sadly positive though unbalanced would be better to balance out all he unbalanced negative stories out there.
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby veralidaine » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:15 am

Hey guys, I watched this when it was aired. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it's going to be available outside the US until somebody gets it onto youtube, which kind of sucks considering there are people outside of Canada who are in the doc. Anyway, the footage with owners and animals were all great. Unfortunately, there were a lot of 'experts' eager to give their opinion on the subject.

What was ironic was the fact that they actually had a psychologist interviewed and yet it was the conservationist who talked the most about the supposed psychological reasons somebody would own a pet, with the 'status symbol' being the major one. Additionally, they had a professor from Windsor University who said that it took thousands of years to domesticate animals and seemed totally unaware of the russian fox experiment which showed that animals could actually be domesticated in 50 years. I was so flabbergasted, I was just like 'where is this woman getting her degrees from?!'

My thinking is that if people look at it critically and put more stock in the actual footage of animals in their owners than in the 'experts' who clearly had no intimate experience with exotic pets, then the result of the doc should be generally positive.

What I found interesting is that it featured a girl in Quebec by the name of Anda, with her fox. If I'm not mistaken, isn't that lucisstar who everybody here has had a lot of concerns about? Honestly, I thought she did a great job, her fox looked healthy and happy, and the environment/food shown looked correst.

TG, did they contact you about footage, because there was definitely a clip of Pua. I'm pretty sure they got it from youtube so maybe they don't need to ask permission to get stuff from youtube?
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:58 pm

Wow no they didn't ask me. And that's not okay legally if it was her but hard to do anything about. Now actual news shows are different. A news like show used a clip of her once without asking and I just shrugged it off cuz news has different rules but was in a more entrainment like segment of the show rather than news.
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby veralidaine » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:21 pm

Yeah, it was near the start of the documentary where they were talking about how many people kept exotic pets and they ran through several clips. Hmm, interesting, because I'm pretty sure I recognized several clips from youtube in the doc.
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby Ash » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:10 pm

It probably was Anda with Miko--champagne fox. I've kept in contact with her, and I'll ask if it's her. I just don't see a link anywhere to watch it though and can't find it anywhere.

Yeah, no one can "take" videos that aren't already explicitly in the public domain. But, sometimes you pick your battles. I mean, for example, if CNN showed a clip of you and your pet, would you REALLY want to go up against them in court? It doesn't matter if it's illegal to some people--they'll still do it.

I'm pretty sure youtube has the right to advertise FOR youtube with videos that have been uploaded to its cite. But I'm not entirely sure about that. I should double-check again what its policies are.

News clips are different, because they are showing you the clip FROM youtube. So like a loophole. So things get a bit tricky there. I suppose if a news network showed a video of you and your pet from youtube, you could probably complain, but really, you're not going to end up on top. Things will get settled out of court, if you make a big enough fuss about it, which typically just means compensation.
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:36 pm

Yeah news can show clips based on the fair use clause which is way more limited than most people think though so the documentary probably thought they could use YT videos under fair use but it's not true.

I did find an article where a guy sent a bill for $300 to a local network because they used his clip on a news segment and they paid him. They probably figured it was cheaper than a lawyer but a big network would have just laughed at him cuz it's legal for news to show them.
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby Ash » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:23 pm

There's hundreds of lawsuits that get settled out of court. You just never hear the details of what the settlement was. So even if initially there was a headline, like, "Animal owner sues because documentary used their footage," it wouldn't last long. The studio would rather settle it out of court and just say, "hey, can we give you, like, $1000 and call it even?" And most people would be cool with that. Nobody wants a lawsuit that's gonna last YEARS and cost TONS of money.

You see it all the time with stuff. Big lawsuits going up, and then poof--suddenly they got settled out of court.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby veralidaine » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:54 pm

I wonder if things in Canada are different? I'm pretty sure I've heard that our copyright laws are different from the US. Anyway, I wouldn't really say it's an issue because the clips weren't being used to discredit exotic animal owners and actually seemed to help shine a more positive light on them, but it's disappointing that they wouldn't be respectful. It also makes it look kind of sketchy that they refuse to release the footage to be seen outside of Canada and I think that a lot of the clips they took from youtube were from the US so most people won't even know.
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby Alynn » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:31 pm

Yeah that was Anda, she filmed with them this past summer. There's been ongoing messy situations with her that seem to be finally settling down, but I won't deny that she takes good care of her fox.
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby Ash » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:37 am

veralidaine wrote:I wonder if things in Canada are different? I'm pretty sure I've heard that our copyright laws are different from the US. Anyway, I wouldn't really say it's an issue because the clips weren't being used to discredit exotic animal owners and actually seemed to help shine a more positive light on them, but it's disappointing that they wouldn't be respectful. It also makes it look kind of sketchy that they refuse to release the footage to be seen outside of Canada and I think that a lot of the clips they took from youtube were from the US so most people won't even know.


Almost every country has accepted US copyright laws now--or at least, the basics of it. That's why they call it "international copyright" usually. Now, obviously, there ARE exceptions, like Russia, China, and others--but they've got other problems for us to worry about.

In general, US copyright laws are what has been used on the international level. One thing that can vary though, is when something falls into the public domain--countries have varied laws on that, and sometimes it creates problems. Like I read about a musician's music score still needing X amount of years before it entered public domain in Germany, but in the US, it was already in the public domain. So people in the US and everywhere else could suddenly take the score and do whatever they wanted with it--but Germans couldn't. I don't remember the exact scenario, but it was something like that.

Those are the types of things that international copyright needs to smooth over.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby Nìmwey » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:18 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkIar5v83TM

I dunno, this looks pretty awful to me.
Same propaganda, same sensationalism, same angry nobody who sits there and tries to sound like he knows something about this, and essentially saying all owners of atypical pets are lunatics.
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to have when we have land are camels, wolfdogs/wolves, coyotes or jackals, striped hyena or aardwolf. Also poultry, rabbits water buffalo and/or yak for livestock.
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KingObeat
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby KingObeat » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:37 am

Looks like the typical anti exotic BS. :-x
HumaneWatch
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United States Association of Reptile Keepers
http://usark.org/

Protect the Harvest
http://protecttheharvest.com/
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Re: Crap... not another one

Postby Alynn » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:20 pm

You can watch the full documentary here: http://allmyvideos.net/q96mhzc6nr0x

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