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Opinions on Cecil the lion

Hunting/Farming/Taxidermy, any topic that may get heated debate.

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vulpini
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Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby vulpini » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:08 am

Having been absent for a while, I decided to get some opinions on a recent event that had AR activists and the like all stirred up.

What do you guys think about the killing of Cecil the lion?

My personal opinion:

Yes, it is very tragic that someone is legally allowed to kill a lion just for the trophy. I generally do not have a problem with hunting, but hunting just for the sake of the kill, or just for the sake of a hide and a head bothers me. When hunters (as they usually do) responsibly take game for purposes other than just for the sake of gaining a pelt or a "cool" new wall decoration, and the animal is killed humanely, I really have very little problem with it.

This, however, seemed unnecessary. Was it blown way out of proportion? Yes. But was some of the outrage unfounded? In my opinion, no. I think that the death threats and the stakeout outside of the man's home were a little over the top, but I'm glad that this was brought to the public's attention. If anything, it helped bring awareness to the fact that these kinds of hunts are still legal in Africa (I'm wondering how these hunts can, as their proponents say, "conserve" the species? If someone is killing a member of the species, how does that work towards conservation? Even if the money gained from the hunt is used towards conservation, it seems counter-productive to me :shrug: ).

I do think the method in which the lion was killed was pretty awful, considering how long he was wounded before he was finally killed. I also think the whole "I didn't know he had on a /giant/ radio collar until after I shot him" thing is completely shady. And I do feel bad for his cubs, now that they might be killed because their protector is gone.

However, the media coverage was ridiculous, and the AR activists hunting this man down are a little overeager, in my opinion. And it is rather odd how these hunts go on all the time and you never hear about them, but this hunt caused global outcry....

Anyways, just wanted to see what you guys thought about the whole matter, and wanted to put my opinion out there.
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby Ash » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:09 am

I personally could care less about it. There are far more terrible things going on in the world and in the news at the moment. I honestly feel like the Cecil the lion thing was just to take our attention away from more pressing issues that actually affect us as humans. But that's just me. :P

I don't like it when people hunt for sport. But I support their right to hunt these animals legally. Their reasons for doing it are their own--I don't know them, so I can't judge. As long as he followed all the laws, I have no problem with it.

The cub thing is ridiculous. Lionesses raise the babies. Male lions don't take part in it. If those cubs are males, they're going to be chased away or killed by their daddy once they're old enough. So bad argument there. Only trying to tug at the ignorants' heartstrings.

These hunts do actually help conservation. The license to hunt one of these animals is VERY expensive. And the money paid for the license aids conservation. I have no problem with a male lion "giving its life" for the bigger picture. If these AR activists are so bothered by it, they should donate as much money to conservation as the big game hunters pay for their license to shoot one. But they don't, so they don't really care. So they're hypocrites. Believe me, PETA could pay these people in Africa thousands to help with conservation. But they won't and never will.

Lions as a species are not at risk for extinction like other big cats are. If it were cheetahs, I'd be upset about it for sure. But since cheetahs certainly are at such high risk, we already have laws. So nobody can hunt cheetahs anyway. It's okay for lions to be hunted when it is very controlled.

There are several ways these hunts pay for conservation.

One way the money goes directly to conservation: Money doesn't grow on trees. But it doesn't. So the only way to conserve a species is to make money. You try to make money off of a preserve, you'll make next to nothing. But hunting big game brings in a lot of money. Let a carefully-selected number of hunters come and cull a small number of the population, and suddenly you've got tons of money to put back into the animals. It sounds counter-productive, but it really isn't when you look at numbers.

Here is a round-about-way, but a way that actually REALLY helps:
One simple way is this: a landowner (usually a farmer) owns hundreds of acres in Africa. Predators in general are a nuisance to anyone raising livestock, and they have a right to protect their livestock. As a result, and lots of times through ignorance, they shoot lions that are on their property to protect their stock. However, they can gain so much more if they allow a few people a year or whatnot pay to come and shoot a lion on their property. Less lions get killed because suddenly keeping lions on your property becomes profitable. Any loss in cattle is made up for when someone pays to hunt on your property. In other words, it makes them want to keep lions around, which helps conservation.

Media likes to make it sound like these animals are being shot left and right. They're not. It's a very controlled number.

You'll actually find that a big portion of exotic animal owners support the hunting of these animals, and that's because we've researched the issue. On the surface it seems saddening, counter-productive, and fruitless. But when you see what's actually going on underneath, it makes a whole lot more sense.

All this is my opinion, of course. :P

As a side note, I personally think we should farm lions and tigers to cut down on the killing of wildlife and end poaching. But that's a whole 'nother debate, lol... But it worked wonders when the American Alligators were going extinct--so tried-and-true.
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby Nìmwey » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:47 pm

Your opinion is pretty much exactly mine, vulpini.

The "cub-thing" was that the cubs might be killed when another male comes by and sees a pride with no male. He'll kill the cubs to mate with the females.
Fortunately, there is already another male in the pride (Jericho) who protects the cubs.
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby Ana » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:03 pm

Maybe it was worth it to reveal the identity of this individual, and allow his peers the
opportunity to be aware of the sort of person who is living amongst us. There will always
be people that will stubbornly stand by someone like him, often due to their own deeply
invested need for dominion, but the majority of people with even the basic rudiments of
empathy will never frequent his business again, and those with heightened senses of
empathy may even take that a step further and set out to ruin him, which also falls into
the spectrum of understandable responses to this revelation.

I'm sure the ethical hunting community is furious. :lol:
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby KingObeat » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:51 am

I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. As it often the case with stories involving animals now a days. Most of the people commenting on this story probably had never even heard of Cecil before this incident. I think that the hunter might have unintentionally gotten involved with some shady hunting company, which are pretty common Africa, and didn't realize that the he had killed a protected animal.
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby hecate » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:24 am

According to friends who regularly hunt big game and dangerous game in Africa, what this hunter did was reprehensible. Based on their experience, there was no way he could not have been complicit in an unethical hunt for a protected animal, and he is no better than a poacher.

The only reason wildlife in Africa hasn't been completely eradicated and its habitat destroyed is that legal managed hunting makes it profitable to keep around. "Ecotourism" doesn't contribute anything near what hunting does to the economy.
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby Nìmwey » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:09 am

Ana wrote:I'm sure the ethical hunting community is furious. :lol:

Oh yes. I play an online hunting game, and there are of course a lot of actual hunters playing it too. I looked up their thread on this, and expected to find very different opinions from what we use to see, but nope... they were furious and disgusted that this guy is even considered a "hunter". (He even poached a bear, before.)
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to have when we have land are camels, wolfdogs/wolves, coyotes or jackals, striped hyena or aardwolf. Also poultry, rabbits water buffalo and/or yak for livestock.
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby Ash » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:52 am

If he was following all the laws, I'm 100% okay with it. But was he not in full compliance then?
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby pat » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:03 am

I personally am against "trophy" hunting. However, I do understand wild animals, should be killed due to the over population or the danger of too many large and dangerous animals. but, if someone is hunting for food, I do understand that.

I believe this guy was in the wrong. Cecil was a protected lion and from what I heard, a unique marking. If this guy was such an experience hunter, he should have known that hunt was illegal. Then to let this lion suffer for a couple days with an arrow was down right cruel and heartless.

I feel no compassion for this guy, and really hope this guy loses his business and whatever else Karma comes his way.

just my opinion.
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:42 pm

Ash wrote:But was he not in full compliance then?



"officials in Zimbabwe said they intended to press ahead with a request to extradite Palmer for killing a lion known as Cecil just outside a sanctuary where the animal was protected."
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby Juska » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:50 pm

He lured a protected lion out of protected land to shoot him on purpose...pretty sure that's not in full compliance of the law. The guy is nothing more than a glorified poacher.
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby vulpini » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:39 pm

(sorry for the late reply. I had one all typed out and then my computer decided that a sporadic restart without forewarning would be a fantastic idea :roll: )Thank you all for your responses! It's sometimes hard to form your own opinion apart from what the media has said. I think that most people were angry about the fact that the lion died (which I now understand is much more common than I thought), and didn't realize that the real problem is that he died in a very sketchy and unethical way.

Now it does make sense how hunting supports conservation efforts, though, in a perfect world, the need for conservation would be nonexistent and thus trophy hunting would be unnecessary. Unfortunately that's not possible. I still disagree with the fundamentals of trophy hunting, and wish there wasn't a need for the deep pockets of thrill hunters. Again, I have very little problem with hunting if it is justified beyond a want for a trophy or bragging rights.

I did think it was strange that there was no uproar over the lion that was killed shortly after Cecil that everyone thought was Jericho. I guess everyone jumped on the Cecil bandwagon but nobody seemed to care about that other lion.

Anyways, thank you for your thoughts and comments. It'll be interesting to see if the authorities follow up on their intent to extradite Palmer to Zimbabwe now that public attention has moved on :shrug:
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Re: Opinions on Cecil the lion

Postby TexasYankee » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:28 pm

I'm not really bothered by trophy hunting of large animals. I don't get the appeal of the trophies (I find taxidermied animal parts creepy) but I understand bloodlust; it's an ancient if undesirable part of human nature. I eat meat because it brings me pleasure; I could live on a vegetarian diet for cheaper and with less environmental impact, to say nothing of fewer animals killed. If I'm willing to kill animals because it brings me pleasure, I don't feel like I can object to other people doing the same thing, just because the animals they kill are more charismatic. (I feel different about things like cockfighting, where animals are injured and maimed rather than killed cleanly.)

It sounds to me like it wasn't the dentist himself who lured Cecil out but the locals he hired to help him. Was that because he made it clear that if he didn't kill a lion they didn't get paid? Did he know what they were doing? I have no idea, and I don't really care; I think the reaction (in the media and by the government of Zimbabwe) was all out of proportion to the crime.

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