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fur farming

Hunting/Farming/Taxidermy, any topic that may get heated debate.

WARNING things may get a bit rougher here than the other forums.

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astargirl22
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fur farming

Postby astargirl22 » Fri May 01, 2009 9:09 pm

ok so i knew that there was fur farms but i guess i was pretty sheltered when it comes to it. like all i can say is OMG! its raining here in ohio and i was bored searching the web and i am worried that the fox momma i am waiting on to have babbies will not have enough so i decided to just look around at fur farms. its horrible people who own farms and have anything to do with them are horrible and are going to go to hell. you are NOT suppost to do that to gods little creatures. i had NO idea how poorly they live and the way that they are treated and killed. owning fur farms should be illegal in my opinion. it made me soo sad to even read about them so i just stopped. geez oh can u not feel bad about doing that to a helpless cute little animal?
~PROUD PARENT OF A SPOILED LITTLE SWIFT FOX NAMED BELLA AND A HANDSOME CHILL MARBLE FOX NAMED BARRETT~
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Postby pat » Fri May 01, 2009 9:41 pm

that is why I am against fur coats and raising fox for fur.
they are treated very badly, and in very small cages.
foxes are pretty hyper, and this is extremely hard on them to live their short life in such horrible conditions.

personally, I feel feel farms should be stopped.
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Postby astargirl22 » Fri May 01, 2009 10:00 pm

i do too pat. it is soo sad and just wrong! do u think that there is a future getting them to stop or is it something that will never end?
~PROUD PARENT OF A SPOILED LITTLE SWIFT FOX NAMED BELLA AND A HANDSOME CHILL MARBLE FOX NAMED BARRETT~
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Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri May 01, 2009 10:06 pm

Try looking up chicken farms and you will see the exact same things. You only see what the Peta types want you to see. Most get into raising them even if for fur because they have an interest in the species. Even if you look at it from a purely economical point of view.

Cage to small = fur with worn spots on it
Stressed animal = poor fur coat
Sick animal = poor fur coat
Abused = ruined coat

All of that equals poor profits if they can find someone to sell the nasty fur to at all. Logically most fur farms are decent enough for health and sanity or they would have nothing worth selling. Sure a bad one exists here and there but so do bad and abusive owners. So by your logic that some fur farms are abusive that none shoul;d exists then the same for pet owners some are abusive so no exotic pet owners should exist. Oh wait they already say that!
http://www.bornfreeusa.org/a3b1_invest.php

The very first fur farms had huge naturalistic enclosures because the foxes needed that to survive and breed. It is thanks to fur farms you now have domesticated foxes that are tame enough for smaller cages and make better pets than a truly wild blood fox. There is a difference in temperament even if not close to the Russian experiment.
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Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri May 01, 2009 10:25 pm

Official word on fur farms
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/resmgmt/fppa/r ... _Farms.pdf

Similarly they are governed by the USDA in USA

The British Fur Trade Association (BFTA) is a member of the International Fur Trade Federation (IFTF). The IFTF promotes strict codes of practice that meet or exceed established and accepted animal welfare standards for wild and farmed fur. The BFTA and the IFTF strongly condemn cruelty to animals and their members do not trade in endangered species.

The BFTA promotes innovation, high standards and a positive factual image of fur and the fur trade. BFTA has recently introduced a new consumer assurance initiative – Origin Assured™ (OA).


BFTA represents over 95% of the British fur trade.

http://www.britishfur.co.uk/main/home
has link to ITF there too
http://www.iftf.com/iftf_5_1.php

And interview with a fur farmer
http://www.maninnature.com/AFibres/Fur/fur1e.html
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Postby modernpets » Sat May 02, 2009 3:05 am

Good point, but at the same time we have our own skin, we don't need to be wearing an animals. Animals do not need to die because of such a stupid reason. If someone wants something soft and fluffy to wear, get the fake stuff. Nobody can make me change my mind about that. I have half a mind to find a fur farm and set the poor creatures free! Animals are individuals to me, not a population. It's hard to explain the way I see things...like for instance deer overpopulation, it is said to be good to hunt them because it helps keep the population down, hence avoiding the negatives, but at the same time, deer are individuals and feel the pain of the bullet...like I said, I have a different way of thinking, especially when it comes to animals...
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Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat May 02, 2009 6:13 am

Unless you are a vegetarian and your pets are too then animals are dieing on your behalf you just aren't having to look them in the eye yourself. At least most animals killed by hunters die instant and lived free until that moment.

Fake furs are made with a variety of materials. The bulk fibers are typically composed of polymers, including acrylics, modacrylics, or appropriate blends of these polymers. Acrylic polymers are made from chemicals derived from coal, air, water, petroleum, and limestone. They are the result of a chemical reaction of an acrylonitrile monomer under conditions of elevated pressure and heat. For fake furs, secondary monomers are also added to improve the ability of the acrylic fibers to absorb dyes. Modacrylic polymers are copolymers made by the reaction of acrylonitrile and vinyl chloride monomers. These fibers are particularly useful for fake furs because they can be easily dyed with animal-like colors and have a natural fire retardance.


Gee sounds great.

And most animals set free from fur farms are killed in the first 24 hrs by cars and real wild animals if the rest aren't caught most of those starve. Well go for it but at least they are killed humanely at fur farms, and yes electrocution is considered humane and less painful than other methods, as shown by tests on human subjects. And the whole animal is used they don't just waist the bodies and meat, everything is used.
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Postby Lasergrl » Sat May 02, 2009 7:40 pm

:|

sigh...........

all I can say is I agree with Mary
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Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat May 02, 2009 8:08 pm

In contrast to all the coal, petroleum and other chemicals used to make any synthetic fibers for clothing and fake fur, from the interview with a fur farmer.
Fur farming is sustainable agriculture at its best. We feed byproducts from the meat, fish and poultry industry and provide a high quality, natural clothing choice. Since the entire mink is used, our only byproduct is manure that is put on neighboring farmers' corn and bean crops, which in turn is fed back to livestock to feed people, and their byproducts are fed back to the mink. Mink can continue to be bred year after year with virtually no impact on the earth.


and just because most wont have botherd looking at the interview

So you pamper your mink for their health?

Absolutely! While every good farmer is concerned about the well being of their animals, fur farmers have special concerns about comfort and pampering because of the fact that a fur-bearing animal's health is directly reflected in their coat. Good housekeeping and a stress-free environment are essentials. If a fur farmer doesn't do that, he's shortly out of business. That is why animals raised for their fur are inherently the best cared for farm animals.

Your website describes a personal connection with mink. How do you get personal with a mink?

This is hard to explain, but a good mink person is very aware of all mink on his or her farm on an individual basis. Taking the time, for example, to find out why a mink may not be eating. Keeping accurate pedigrees to know an individual mink's breeding cycle is another example.
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Postby Lasergrl » Sat May 02, 2009 8:50 pm

knee jerk reactions to AR video

not understanding what fur farms are really like

Thinking that foxes are somehow more special then "food animals"

Not understanding that you must love animals to farm them

all reasons people misunderstand fur farming. I LOVE animals, thats why I raise my own for meat yet people cant fathom how I can butcher and consume an animal I have known. Its because you want whats best for animals you use. I am not above getting attached and keeping one that was supposed to be food.....but I usually do eat their babies :D
Deer hunting is one of the kindest things you can do as a meat eater. You are impacting the environment less, improving the food supply by thinning them out. As long as humans reproduce so rapidly it is needed, just research the problems they are having in england. That animal lived a very happy life. The pain of the bullet I am not convinced is such that we percieve it. Prey animals have a remarkable ability to mask pain with adrenaline to get themselves out of prey situations. They do not feel that bullet (most of the time) because they are in flight mode. You will always have the accidental shots that do not produce a fast kill, but its in the hunters best interest to make the cleanest shot possible so they dont have to go tracking the darned thing down. Many people that have been shot say they never even felt it, just felt wet from blood. Deer probably feel it even less due to chemicals to help them. These deer lived a more satifying life then many black angus. Not that black angus have it so bad, they are left out on huge pastures untill the last month when they are then confined and finished out with corn.
The releasing of the fur farm animals, I can even believe I read that on here, but I know that you want the best and just havent seen the problems that come with that. Just remeber that the same people that are making these videos and tear jerking ads and websites, are the same ones that try to make exotic pets look so sad and abused, is that how your animals are really treated? Thats how they try and get the un educated public to think. They also will never change their minds that exotic pets arent abused by the simple act of confinement.
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Postby sidhimelkel » Sat May 02, 2009 11:57 pm

HyzenthlayForesight wrote:Unless you are a vegetarian and your pets are too then animals are dieing on your behalf you just aren't having to look them in the eye yourself. At least most animals killed by hunters die instant and lived free until that moment.

Fake furs are made with a variety of materials. The bulk fibers are typically composed of polymers, including acrylics, modacrylics, or appropriate blends of these polymers. Acrylic polymers are made from chemicals derived from coal, air, water, petroleum, and limestone. They are the result of a chemical reaction of an acrylonitrile monomer under conditions of elevated pressure and heat. For fake furs, secondary monomers are also added to improve the ability of the acrylic fibers to absorb dyes. Modacrylic polymers are copolymers made by the reaction of acrylonitrile and vinyl chloride monomers. These fibers are particularly useful for fake furs because they can be easily dyed with animal-like colors and have a natural fire retardance.


Gee sounds great.

And most animals set free from fur farms are killed in the first 24 hrs by cars and real wild animals if the rest aren't caught most of those starve. Well go for it but at least they are killed humanely at fur farms, and yes electrocution is considered humane and less painful than other methods, as shown by tests on human subjects. And the whole animal is used they don't just waist the bodies and meat, everything is used.



Electrocution is not humane. As much as youd like to think so.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/02/07/u ... punishment

I dont think they would ban the electric chair if it was humane. And if fur farms were to go out of business, whose to say they would be set free? We are exotic owners here, the mentality should be set into such. If they are pampered and stress free as the fur farmer explained they would do fine in an exotic ownership environment.
We dont find out who we are through our animals, but rather we find out who we are from what we learn from them.
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Postby Lasergrl » Sun May 03, 2009 12:31 am

its very difficult to find homes for adult untamed exotics. Its one of the AR arguments against breeding them. There certainly is not any need for that many being put into the breeding community.

Many Fur farms use Co2 now. I use it as well on some of my meat animals.
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Postby modernpets » Sun May 03, 2009 1:03 am

And most animals set free from fur farms are killed in the first 24 hrs by cars and real wild animals if the rest aren't caught most of those starve. Well go for it


The releasing of the fur farm animals, I can even believe I read that on here, but I know that you want the best and just havent seen the problems that come with that.


That's why I said "I have half a mind" the other half of my mind is not optimistic about their survival in the wild.

Not understanding that you must love animals to farm them


That must be a different kind of "love".

Deer hunting is one of the kindest things you can do as a meat eater. You are impacting the environment less, improving the food supply by thinning them out. As long as humans reproduce so rapidly it is needed, just research the problems they are having in england. That animal lived a very happy life. The pain of the bullet I am not convinced is such that we percieve it. Prey animals have a remarkable ability to mask pain with adrenaline to get themselves out of prey situations. They do not feel that bullet (most of the time) because they are in flight mode. You will always have the accidental shots that do not produce a fast kill, but its in the hunters best interest to make the cleanest shot possible so they dont have to go tracking the darned thing down. Many people that have been shot say they never even felt it, just felt wet from blood. Deer probably feel it even less due to chemicals to help them. These deer lived a more satifying life then many black angus. Not that black angus have it so bad, they are left out on huge pastures untill the last month when they are then confined and finished out with corn.


I know that murdering deer has it's benefits, but again, I feel that the individual animal felt pain, and it makes me sad. I won't believe that pain wasn't felt until said animal came back to life and spoke in plain english and told me. Though you do make a good point.

About humans reproducing so rapidly...um...I might get crap for this, but there is an over popluation of humans as well, which is also effecting many things and nothing is being done to control it that I'm aware of.


Just remeber that the same people that are making these videos and tear jerking ads and websites, are the same ones that try to make exotic pets look so sad and abused, is that how your animals are really treated?


I support most of the efforts that these groups (PETA. HSUS) do. The ones that I agree with obviously. I haven't really seen anything involving the exotic pet trade besides tigers and lions etc, which, I may get crap for this too...I think shouldn't be pets unless they are kept in a LARGE naturalistic enviornment.

Electrocution is not humane. As much as youd like to think so.


I agree.

Honestly, I'm weird, and I fear and hate death and suffering. I've already heard lots of people tell me how it's inevitable...blah blah blah, but I still fear/hate it, not for the death of myself, but selfishly for my loved ones, human and animal. I can't even imagine or think about certain animals/people I know dieing...so it's hard to convince me that murder is okay.

If there weren't fur farms there would be less death, and less pain felt in this world.

If there weren't so many people, causing habitat destruction, so many deer wouldn't "need" to be murdered.

I would be happy if meat wasn't on the menu anymore...unfortunatly I was raised on it and I'm weak, and it's kind of like an addiction. I won't add anything else to what I'm addicted to because I rather be vegan, and if I ever had childern (which I plan not to because of the current population) I would raise them vegan, because that would be the life they knew and would be easier to show such compassion. Once they were old enough to make their own decisions they could choose their path.

This is just one persons opinion and thinking. Again, I'm pretty weird and have a different way of viewing things...try not to take my out loud thoughts personally. I'm one of those annoying stubborn people that you can't seem to get to see your side on some things :)
[/quote]
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Postby Lasergrl » Sun May 03, 2009 1:31 am

It seems your opinions are based on your fear of death. Thats totally understandable. I used to be that way. If you were exposed to it, understanding it, you would probably get over it too. I dont even think it is nescassary to eliminate pain in an animals death, just to make it as fast and painless as possible. Human hunters certainly are more humane then predators ripping them apart while still alive as many do. Like it or not humans ARE part of nature. We werent transplanted here from space, unless you are a scientologist :mrgreen:

Your ferrets are contributing to the death of other animals by virtue of the animal protein in their diet. Where is the line? Why ok for species A to be farmed but not species B? You question my "love" of animal in my farming practices. Let me apply it to you. Remove the aspect of not being able to kill something that you raised and we will go from there. Would you not say, that if you had the means, it would be more humane to raise a meat animal or animals for your ferrets diet, being kind to it, providing enrichment and good diet, then to buy commercial diets that use factory farmed sources? Thats kinda where I come from.

PS:
Animals cannot be murdered, only humans can be murdered.
Last edited by Lasergrl on Sun May 03, 2009 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lasergrl » Sun May 03, 2009 1:38 am

[quote="modernpets]
This is just one persons opinion and thinking. Again, I'm pretty weird and have a different way of viewing things...try not to take my out loud thoughts personally. I'm one of those annoying stubborn people that you can't seem to get to see your side on some things :)[/color][/quote][/quote]

Dont take me personal either. :D
FYI with the vegan thing. Unfortunately early childhood is when they need animal proteins the most. Vegan would mean no milk or eggs. Why not just strive to raise your own? I promise the chickens dont care if you eat their eggs if they are a laying breed, they eat them themselves! Cows and goats also dont mind giving their owners the milk. If you have a good bond they will "let down their milk" for you as soon as they see you and it drips out. Thats a sign that they want you to have it!

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