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fur farming

Hunting/Farming/Taxidermy, any topic that may get heated debate.

WARNING things may get a bit rougher here than the other forums.

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TamanduaGirl
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Re: fur farming

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:53 pm

well number 2 is cancer looks like squamous cell carcinoma which is mostly caused by sun exposure. I did have a dog get that because she liked to lay in the sun, oddly though she got it in her gums. I can be very bloody. But yes the environment(sun does cause cancer).

The ones missing legs are bad and don't look cleaned but aside from the last mink it looks as those the wounds have been treated well. Look at the white one if they didn't care and did nothing why is the fur around the wound clean and not stained terrible from puss running out and the wound looks to be healing well. They they look clean and pink and not red like the leg ones. Though I likely would have chosen to put the scalped one down instead.

Generally though you could say all accidents are caused from neglect. We had a dog growing up who had her back sliced wide open one night all the way down her back from neck to tail by a bear when we were away, yes we neglected to have her locked away but it was a woodland farm of a a few acres, fenced aside from the driveway and she didn't wander. I still contend she was a well loved pet that was taken care of. She was rushed to the vet that night and we put wet towels on the wound till we could get there. Quasi had his back ripped open, but not as bad but still needed a few stitches, when a husky jumped a fence and bit him. Crap happens to the best of us though something also could always have been done to prevent it. Something about the living conditions allowed it but you can't prevent every possible wound. Especially if they have cage mates they could hurt each other but if they are kept alone then people say that's abusive too. If any farm has a lot of repeated issues then yeah there's a problem. If they have to visit 20 farms repeatedly all year to get 5-10 photos of wounds then then that's hardly a serious problem especially considering the number of animals.

The photos you posted are the worst out there for wounds though not how it is at all farms. Also that one inside shot of the barn isn't that bad as those cages are double the size as they extend to outside as well.

Yes the wire is to help keep them clean but the cages and nest boxes still need cleaned but they poop numerous times a day. No one can clean up after a farms worth of animals every-time they poop without a huge staff of dedicated poop cleaners cleaning all day and night. It's not just for the fur it's healthier for them as well. Foxes don't care if they get their own feces and pee all over themselves at least when younger(that's been mentioned here). So one poop in a solid floor cage could be tracked all over the cage and get all over the animals in a very short time. In the cage if they step on it then it'll fall through but the cage needs cleaned or it will build up on the wire and stop falling through.

PS I've seen all the worst of those photos before many times since many many years ago, aside from the scalped one but as I said it looked like it's been treated to me or it would look much much worse with a wound like that. If this really is standard they should have lots more just like them newer but they don't.
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Re: fur farming

Postby Ash » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:01 pm

TamanduaGirl wrote:PS I've seen all the worst of those photos before many times since many many years ago, aside from the scalped one but as I said it looked like it's been treated to me or it would look much much worse with a wound like that. If this really is standard they should have lots more just like them newer but they don't.


That's a good point. A lot of these pictures are older. They really don't reflect the same type of care that is being given today.

Care has gotten better recently. Otherwise ALF would be using a different "current" picture to describe that fur farm, not the picture of the really nice cages all lined up. The first thing they'd be looking for would be dirty living conditions and wounds. But the worst they can find at that farm are caged foxes that are well cared for.
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Re: fur farming

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:35 pm

Just sticking this here cuz of relevance

"Schultz’s bobcats would be kept in 4x6 wire cages with attached 2x4 nesting boxes. He told me he kills his animals by lethal injection."
http://www.hcn.org/articles/fur-flies-o ... obcat-farm
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Re: fur farming

Postby caninesrock » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:54 pm

I know this is an old topic, but I just wanted to post here again because my opinion of fur-farming has changed. I still wouldn't say I'm necessarily for fur-farming or even trapping animals for their fur, but my opinion of the farmer aspect of it is more balanced as opposed to a few years ago when I was adamantly against it and wanted all farms banned and the fur industry made illegal. Now that I'm a bit more educated, however, I can't deny that, whether or not I entirely agree with the practice or not, fur farming does have some good things that came out of it.

Off the top of my head I can think of a few:
Domestic Ranch Fox- These are the foxes that live on fur farms and also sometimes are acquired by breeders and pet stores. I don't know for sure, but probably almost every, if not every, pet fox breeder and exotic pet store got their animal stock from fur farms at one point or another. Even if it wasn't directly, it's a chain. Fur farm sells foxes to original fox breeder or pet store, another fox breeder acquires their breeding foxes from either the first pet breeder or the pet store and so on, etc. In fact, with the exception of wild rescues from rehabilitation situations who are unable to be released back into the wild, I would guess that the majority of all foxes that are kept as pets in the United States have had ancestors that have at one point come from a fur farm. This obviously doesn't include foxes like fennecs, since they aren't farmed, but it certainly includes red foxes and arctic foxes,which are the commonly farmed species.

So, why does this matter?

Well, without fur farm, foxes would have never been readily available in captivity. And while domestic ranch fox aren't as domestic as the Russian experiment foxes, they are still domestic in the sense that they differ drastically in genes from the wild fox population and have also been bred in captivity for many generations.

Russian Domestic Fox- It was because of fur farming that the extremely fascinating experiment to domesticate foxes in Russia was even possible as the experimenters got their stock from fur farms. Russian Domestic foxes differ from Domestic Ranch fox in the fact that they were domesticated for tameness rather than just for human-use. The Russian Domestic foxes have a higher degree of chance to have curled over tails, folded over ears, unique coat colors, and the ability to bark. However, all those traits aren't entirely unheard of in Ranch Foxes either. Tiny Tracks sometimes gets foxes with curled tails and flopped ears who bark and they are pet fox breeder. As for the unique colors, those are common in both types of domestic fox, but one particular type, the Georgian, which can come in red or white, is for the most part, only found in the Russian domestics.

Awesome Fur Colors-While some colors bred at fur farms, such as cross, the typical red, and silver, do occur in the wild, there are many other unique colors of fox that we would never have without fur farms. Marble foxes, platinum foxes, and the brown morphs (cinnamon, burgundy, colicott,ect.), just to name a few, don't exist in the wild. So all the pet foxes people have on here that are unique colors are thanks to fur farms.

Legality
Though Texas is sadly not one of them, as the fur-bearers permit explicitly states that it will only be given to people who breed and kill for fur and that it's illegal to use to breed animals as pets to anyone in another state or country or within the state of Texas, that is not the case in all
states. In some states, the fur-bearing propagation permit is written in such a way that it simply says the animals must be bred for profit, but doesn't specify how the profit is to be acquired. In those states, it's common for pet breeders to be able to get this permit and sell the foxes as pets for profit. I believe they also need a USDA as well, though. But without the fur-bearing permit, they might not be able to have fox in captivity even if USDA depending on if the state doesn't allow them in captivity, like coyotes and foxes in Texas, sadly.
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Re: fur farming

Postby Ash » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:00 pm

I agree with all of those points. I'm not really into the idea of wearing fur, but I still think it looks beautiful. To each their own in that regard. But the actually farming industry is the reason we can have these as pets in the first place--so we have to be grateful for that. The colors are gorgeous, the foxes are healthy and strong, the fox lines go back for generations... So much good stuff about it. The domestication aspect of it too is really amazing and important.
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Re: fur farming

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:27 pm

Just in case anyone reading still believes the skinned alive lie - https://topcatsroar.wordpress.com/2013/ ... is-a-myth/
"The German High Court found PeTA guilty of paying people to skin animals alive. The witness who committed this act for PeTA, a videographer, told the court that he didn’t understand why they wanted it done that way, but he needed the money. This video was made in a third world country and the prosecutor found the man in the video who skinned the animal."

here's another reason synthetics are not better http://www.outsideonline.com/2091876/pa ... -pollutant
"a single fleece jacket sheds as many as 250,000 synthetic fibers" "small aquatic species ingest the fibers, and that fish and bivalves sold for human consumption also contain microfibers"
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Re: fur farming

Postby FrayWolf » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:18 pm

Heres another good link http://furcommission.com/saving-society ... uff-films/

Due to environmental concerns, I will gladly choose real fur over faux fur any day.
He was only a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes.
But I have made him my friend, and now he is unique to all the world... ❤︎
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Re: fur farming

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:50 pm

https://www.facebook.com/kopenhagenfur/ ... 848344410/

The English version of the mink farm welfare video. Learn more about welfare on Danish mink farms, as three experts answer some of the most common questions about the animal welfare. English announcer and subtitles for the on camera speakers.
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Re: fur farming

Postby FrayWolf » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:22 pm

I can say a lot of those horrific pictures posted earlier were not from a fur farm at all....but a bile farm. The guy who ran it (has since been shut down) had even tried pelting out some of his foxes and other animals and took them to auction. NONE of them even sold, even at extremely low prices. The fur industry does NOT want abused, neglected, or sick animals as it reflects greatly on the quality of fur.

PETA and other animal rights extremists will make snuff films targeting fur farming and other animal-related industries, as PETA exist to make money and not to actually help animals. Like the incident with PETA and the tanuki.
He was only a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes.
But I have made him my friend, and now he is unique to all the world... ❤︎
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Re: fur farming

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:42 pm

FrayWolf wrote:I can say a lot of those horrific pictures posted earlier were not from a fur farm at all....but a bile farm. The guy who ran it (has since been shut down) had even tried pelting out some of his foxes and other animals and took them to auction. NONE of them even sold, even at extremely low prices. The fur industry does NOT want abused, neglected, or sick animals as it reflects greatly on the quality of fur.

PETA and other animal rights extremists will make snuff films targeting fur farming and other animal-related industries, as PETA exist to make money and not to actually help animals. Like the incident with PETA and the tanuki.


That makes sense they look like the same caging in most and the ARs like to find one bad case and make like that's how they all are, for all they are against even exotic pet owners.
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Re: fur farming

Postby Teela » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:10 am

Electrocution is painless if over a certain number of HZ(frequency in the oscillation). Tazers ect are made to be painful on purpose. It's the current that kills but when the the frequency is over a certain number the shock is not perceived. It is considered a humane method of killing by the veterinary association long as the shock is applied to the head so it stuns before killing, because the currents frequency send the heart out of rhythm but the shock to the head stuns them so they wont feel the heart attack. It is fast and if done right painless too.


If the frequency is high enough to avoid any sensation of shock, then electrocution is impossible. That's why you can touch a megavolt Tesla Coil without any harmful effects. Even modest levels of power into short vertical antennae can produce voltages well in excess of 100000V. Again, no electrocutions. AC always flows along the outside of any conductor. That's why it's called "Skin Effect".

Tazers are all DC, even though they use a high frequency power supply.
Last edited by TamanduaGirl on Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: For flaming language
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Re: fur farming

Postby FrayWolf » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:48 pm

I've met many fur famers who treat their animals with more care than many exotic pet owners. I was against fur faming too until I experienced it first hand. You cant believe everything thats put out on the media, PETA and other AR organizations are in it for the MONEY....not the animals. Everything is put to use, the fur is only the primary product, everything else is used as by products. I work in the feeder breeder industry currently, I can tell you fur farming is more humane, at least in regulated countries. China of course is frowned upon.
He was only a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes.
But I have made him my friend, and now he is unique to all the world... ❤︎

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