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to eat meat or not?

Hunting/Farming/Taxidermy, any topic that may get heated debate.

WARNING things may get a bit rougher here than the other forums.

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veralidaine
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Postby veralidaine » Fri May 22, 2009 11:05 pm

As I mentioned in the other thread, I believe that because humans are omnivores, I have no reason to feel bad about eating meat. I plan on raising and killing my own meat when I'm older. I do believe that it would be most respectful to the animal to use as much as I can from their body so I will try my best to do that.
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astargirl22
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Postby astargirl22 » Sat May 23, 2009 12:11 am

i too do not feel bad about eating meat. but i just dont think i personally have the heart to kill my own own meat and eat it. i have nothing againist people who are able to do this i give them props for it
~PROUD PARENT OF A SPOILED LITTLE SWIFT FOX NAMED BELLA AND A HANDSOME CHILL MARBLE FOX NAMED BARRETT~
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Ragtatter
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Postby Ragtatter » Sat May 23, 2009 6:13 pm

I agree with most of what has been said about humans being omnivores and the like; we have canine teeth and digestive systems that can handle meat for a reason.

That said, I do think that people consume way too much meat (myself included). We really didn't evolve to eat as much meat as most non-vegetarians do.

Think about back when humans were still living a primarily "wild" life, back before we had tools and could really do a lot of actual hunting and killing for ourselves. We mostly ate nuts, berries, greens, etc. Any meat we got was a very lucky find; a rare opportunity to be made the most of.

Meat packs a lot of salts, fats, protein, etc. into a relatively small package, making it a choice food for a lean omnivorous ape fighting for survival (particluarly one that had forsaken climbing for running, and thus needed a lot of "fuel" to power those leg-muscles that their survival depended on). Sugars and oils also provided a lot of bang for the buck, and salt was also a greatly-needed commodity to replace electrolytes lost through sweating and exertion.

We evolved to crave sugars, fats, oils, salts, and meat. All of these are things that were relatively difficult to obtain or rare to come by in our "wild" past, so when we did find them we were driven to consume as much of them as possible. That fatty piece of haunch that you managed to scavenge off a true predator's kill might mean the difference between having enough fuel stored away to survive the winter, or freezing.

*****

Now, shift to the modern world in most first-world countries. Under the civilization, we are still instinctively that omnivorous running-ape that evolved to survive in the wild. We still crave the same salts and oils and meat and fat that our ancestors craved; it's a survival instinct that served them well.

The problem is, meat and salt and sugar and the like is no longer rare or hard to come by. It's as close as the local supermarket. We still find it far tastier than more "healthy" foods, because we've evolved to find it more tasty. But since there's no environmental limit on it anymore, we have to limit our intake by ourselves. And as a whole, we do a dismal job of it.

In short, all of us non-vegetarians out there would probably do well to "remember our roots". We were designed to eat mostly greens, nuts, fruits, and the like for our dietary needs--and to occasionally supplement it with meats. There's nothing wrong with eating a ham sandwich, but maybe you shouldn't have bacon for breakfast, chicken wings for lunch, and T-bone steaks for dinner every day of the week.

I try to treat meat kind of like I treat cookies and ice-cream--it's a very good, wonderful, amazing-to-eat treat, but it's not an every-meal thing.
TWang51022
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Postby TWang51022 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:13 pm

I am most likely part of the minority on this, but I will pretty much eat anything.

I separate "food" from "companion" when it comes to animals.

This means I would try all of the more taboo foods like dog, insects, etc.

I've also eaten rabbit, despite owning rabbits myself.
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zillahkatz
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Postby zillahkatz » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:27 pm

I eat meat. But maybe a more important issue is what type and where's it coming from...

Micheal Pollan who wrote the Omnivore's Dilemma and In Defense Of Food has a famous quote. "Eat food, mostly plants, not too much". He stresses that we need to eat real food - for instance a twinkie is not food. The quality of our food is the important thing and this includes meat. Beef raised in feedlots contain a ton of ecoli. Put those cows back on pasture for 5 days and 90% of the ecoli leaves their system.

I agree with Ragtatter in that meat should be an accompaniment. In China, they make stir-fry and then add small amounts of meat. Vegetables and rice are the bulk of the meal. I think most Amercians have for gotten how to eat real food - most of the things they eat come out of a box, a can or a bag.

I will only eat meat that is grass fed, hormone/ antibiotic free and humanely raised. We do eat game meat here often too. Joel Salatin is a farmer and rancher from Virginia. He and his family run Polyface Farms. I recommend going to their website - how they farm is how things used to be done. It's amazing and sustainable. www.poylfacefarms.com Joel says, "We honor them in life, which is the only way we earn the right to ask them to feed us — like the mutual respect that occurs between the cape buffalo and the lion."

Just some food for thought. I work at a natural grocery store, our website is www.jacksonwholegrocer.com Check it out if you're interested in more info on food, eating local and sustainability.
Cheers, Stacey
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BB
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Postby BB » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:14 pm

Zillahkatz, I seem to have problems with the link, but I think I've seen similar projects in England on TV recently. It explained the difference of, let's say, caged chickens and free range. Chickens need greens and scraps to properly develop whereas the caged ones get pumped full of nasties, grow to a phenomenal rate in a short period of time, and yes, they are the bigger, better looking chickens in the supermarket, but definitely NOT the healthy ones!
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zillahkatz
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Postby zillahkatz » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:21 am

BB and everyone - I misspelled the link! :roll:

It is www.polyfacefarms.com

It's a remarkable operation!
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BB
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Postby BB » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:52 pm

Yep, it's working now...
Seems to be a good thing and it makes a lot of sense.
Weird though that they only offer men the 12 year apprentice ship (and only two females in the short one...?)
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veralidaine
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Postby veralidaine » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:48 am

Ragtatter wrote:I agree with most of what has been said about humans being omnivores and the like; we have canine teeth and digestive systems that can handle meat for a reason.

That said, I do think that people consume way too much meat (myself included). We really didn't evolve to eat as much meat as most non-vegetarians do.

Think about back when humans were still living a primarily "wild" life, back before we had tools and could really do a lot of actual hunting and killing for ourselves. We mostly ate nuts, berries, greens, etc. Any meat we got was a very lucky find; a rare opportunity to be made the most of.

Meat packs a lot of salts, fats, protein, etc. into a relatively small package, making it a choice food for a lean omnivorous ape fighting for survival (particluarly one that had forsaken climbing for running, and thus needed a lot of "fuel" to power those leg-muscles that their survival depended on). Sugars and oils also provided a lot of bang for the buck, and salt was also a greatly-needed commodity to replace electrolytes lost through sweating and exertion.

We evolved to crave sugars, fats, oils, salts, and meat. All of these are things that were relatively difficult to obtain or rare to come by in our "wild" past, so when we did find them we were driven to consume as much of them as possible. That fatty piece of haunch that you managed to scavenge off a true predator's kill might mean the difference between having enough fuel stored away to survive the winter, or freezing.

*****

Now, shift to the modern world in most first-world countries. Under the civilization, we are still instinctively that omnivorous running-ape that evolved to survive in the wild. We still crave the same salts and oils and meat and fat that our ancestors craved; it's a survival instinct that served them well.

The problem is, meat and salt and sugar and the like is no longer rare or hard to come by. It's as close as the local supermarket. We still find it far tastier than more "healthy" foods, because we've evolved to find it more tasty. But since there's no environmental limit on it anymore, we have to limit our intake by ourselves. And as a whole, we do a dismal job of it.

In short, all of us non-vegetarians out there would probably do well to "remember our roots". We were designed to eat mostly greens, nuts, fruits, and the like for our dietary needs--and to occasionally supplement it with meats. There's nothing wrong with eating a ham sandwich, but maybe you shouldn't have bacon for breakfast, chicken wings for lunch, and T-bone steaks for dinner every day of the week.

I try to treat meat kind of like I treat cookies and ice-cream--it's a very good, wonderful, amazing-to-eat treat, but it's not an every-meal thing.


I'm doing a minor in nutritional and nutraceutical sciences and I definitely agree with you about the whole "meat is more acessible and our systems haven't realised that yet" however I guess I'm inclined to go with what my parents have taught me.

As long as I've lived, the dinner meal (lunch and breakfast were more flexible) ALWAYS consisted of one portion meat, one portion of something starchy, and one portion of a vegetable. The size of the meat portion varied but that's just how I've learned to make dinner and I doubt I'll be able to get rid of that programming. Variety is definitely the spice of life but I'm inclined to think that a portion of meat every day isn't bad for you.
Zombie_Doll
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Postby Zombie_Doll » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:44 pm

I eat meat. I believe humans are omnivores and are supposed to eat fruits and vegetables. It's what nature intended. However, I don't hate vegetarians as long as they don't force their beliefs on me, and personally, I like the taste of some vegetarian and vegan foods, and I've been known to go a day or so without real meat.

Personally, I've never felt that conflict between what's a pet and what's dinner. I own a cat, but I would try cat meat if it was offered (I heard cat liver is quite tasty). I also think sheep are adorable, but I willingly dissected a sheep brain in high school, along with other animal parts, a piglet and a frog.

Though, to be fair, I also get annoyed at people who call themselves "Carnivores" and look down on vegetables and what they consider "Health Foods" (Honestly, a little bit of edamame and Miso Soup in my diet and I'm a health nut O.O). These people shouldn't be so afraid to try new things.
Drache
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Postby Drache » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:59 pm

I eat meat. And I feel really bad for people who have nothing better to do than try to put a guilt-trip on people like me for eating meat.

But if you can get past the ranting and raving about how meat is murder, there are some ideas coming from the vegan movement that everyone should consider, even if you have no intentions on becoming an herbivore.

For example, it is definitely true that raising livestock for meat takes an extraordinary amount of our resources and can be devastating to our environment.

Also, commercially raised livestock produces meat that is not as nutritionally sound as you might think.

And, the actual amount of meat we need in a well-balanced diet is far lower than what most people actually consume. There are lots of health problems associated with eating too much commercially prepared meats, especially red meat.

I definitely think that people should be smarter about where they get their meat from and how MUCH they are eating. I get lots of wild game from local markets and hunters, and I eat a lot much less red meat than I used to. But this decision is solely based on my own health and my concern for our environment. I think it's delusional for militant vegans to feel morally superior just because they aren't eating meat.

Also, I believe that it's impossible to even BE a true vegan. The whole idea is bogus.

Weird: My sister's philosophy about diet is that she will not eat anything that she would not be able to kill herself. So she basically only eats dairy products and seafood. She doesn't expect anyone else to apply this to themselves and has no qualms eating at the table when I'm having venison roast. :)
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veralidaine
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Postby veralidaine » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:15 pm

Zombie_Doll wrote: (Honestly, a little bit of edamame and Miso Soup in my diet and I'm a health nut O.O). These people shouldn't be so afraid to try new things.


Mmmmmmmmmmmm...Japanese. I ADORE Japanese food! It drives my parents crazy because when we go out to restaurants, I always want to go for Japanese. While they like it, they're not as crazy about it as I am lol.

You should tell people that you're not a health nut, you're a Japanese nut lol
Zombie_Doll
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Postby Zombie_Doll » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:21 pm

veralidaine wrote:
Zombie_Doll wrote: (Honestly, a little bit of edamame and Miso Soup in my diet and I'm a health nut O.O). These people shouldn't be so afraid to try new things.


Mmmmmmmmmmmm...Japanese. I ADORE Japanese food! It drives my parents crazy because when we go out to restaurants, I always want to go for Japanese. While they like it, they're not as crazy about it as I am lol.

You should tell people that you're not a health nut, you're a Japanese nut lol

That's even worse. Rather be called a health nut than a weaboo XD Though Japanese food is yummy, and easy to make, too (If you can get the ingredients, most of which available and most Asian groceries)

When I was a kid, I always made my parents take me to eat Indian. :mrgreen:
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BB
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Postby BB » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:45 pm

I was pretty experimental as a kid too. I loved (and love) Italian food & seafood. Since living in Australia my spice levels went up, hence the Asian influx in my area, and I started eating sushi.I love it and cannot get enough of the ginger that goes with it. (Strangely enough I never really got into ginger and still hardly use it in cooking.)
Zombie_Doll
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Postby Zombie_Doll » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:54 pm

BB wrote:I was pretty experimental as a kid too. I loved (and love) Italian food & seafood. Since living in Australia my spice levels went up, hence the Asian influx in my area, and I started eating sushi.I love it and cannot get enough of the ginger that goes with it. (Strangely enough I never really got into ginger and still hardly use it in cooking.)

It's important to get a lot of different foods in your diet. My parents where very big on exotic foods, too, and I grew up in NJ which is very culturally diverse. I guess I'm lucky that way.

Of course, growing up in Jersey, Italian food is hardly strange. But then, there's a lot of food that's strange here that's normal in other places.

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