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Cropping and Docking

Hunting/Farming/Taxidermy, any topic that may get heated debate.

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Akuma223
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby Akuma223 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:00 pm

I've never noticed dogs with docked tails being more nervous or anything. My springer is extremely confident especially when compared to my other dog Lucy. Lucy has her tail and is extremely nervous and shy all the time. I think its more a personality thing. Anyway, I think docking and cropping is only okay if its when the dogs is a young pup and its done right to avoid excessive pain.
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amyers
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby amyers » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:10 pm

My rottie-rhodesian's and my schauzer's tails are both docked. The schnauzer has her ears cropped too. Neither of them suffer a confidence problem....just the opposite in the rottie mix's case. She is the best guard dog.

Personally, I probably wouldn't have had it done to them if it had been my choice, but I have to say they both look great with the work done, Miss Willow especially.

This is her at 10 weeks. She's almost 2 now. I've got to take more pictures lol.
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:43 am

the_unstable wrote:
TamanduaGirl wrote:
the_unstable wrote:Hm, as the saying goes, "you learn something new everyday". I guess it still seems harsh to me.


So is cutting off their balls and that is also done for human convenience. To prevent unwanted breeding you only need to keep your animal confined and under control(leashed) in public. The risk of cancer is very low but removing them actually increases the risk for other cancers. Removing them just makes things easier for the human.


So are your dogs not neutered then? I thought it reduced aggression in domestic animals. It is definitely important in some exotic species, though.


They are but they came from shelters so no choice in the matter. There's really little evidence that it reduces aggression, some studies say one thing but some studies say another. At least in neutering, spaying does help reduce female on female dog aggression some but spayed dogs are still bitches to each other.

Still reducing aggression is for your connivance and if fixing them reduces aggression you are removing a body part that DOES effect personality. Where as altering the ears or removing the tail does not(or does not seem to).

Sexual organs are more vital to an animal's natural state of being than superficial appendages like ears and tails and it doesn't hurt any less, most likely more. So I really can't see how some see docking and cropping as being horrible but spay and neuter is not just okay but encouraged. They are all elective surgeries done for the convenience of the owner.
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby Juska » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:59 am

I know spaying Emo didn't do anything to curb her dog aggression/fear. I don't know what brought it about, but she just doesn't like other dogs. Idiot tried to pick a fight with my granddad's pitbull, who was just trying to play with her (he might have been a little rough, but still) :roll: Lucky Prince is a mellow boy and didn't really fight back.
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Minty
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby Minty » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:44 pm

It could just be that my dog is abnormal for being "normal" but my Cocker Spaniel, Truffles, was found along side the road. Shes blind in one eye, but not shy at all. She thinks shes a big bad guard dog. She even had heart worms when we found her, so she had to go several months without much interaction with other dogs because it would get her too excited. Even after her rough start, she seems to have no behavioral issues. Only problem she has is liking to dig in the trash. But ey, shes my garbage hound. :lol: Although, not sure that its relevant, but when she plays, she sounds like she is super aggressive and about to attack, deep growling and snarling type noises, while wagging her nub tail at mach speed. Never fought my mom's maltipoo who is under 5lb I think, and they play great. Sounds like murder though, even when shes never left the maltipoo with a single mark or injury.
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Minty
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby Minty » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:11 pm

I just thought of something. I think docking can affect confidence if done too late. This particular tale, is of a woman who bred dogs. She would breed whatever was popular, for awhile it was mini aussies, then pomeranians, and so on. She isn't the best breeder though. Her back yard, where the dogs could play, was covered in rocks. As in, purposefully placed rocks, like gravel; there was no grass. I can't imagine it would of felt good on their paws, I know walking on it in flip flops was a pain. Anyway, she let one pup, a black and white parti pom puppy, become so matted that she had to cut the fur off. While cutting mats off of her rear, she accidentally cut off her tail. :cry: For months afterward, the dog would let no one touch her backside. When my grandparents were traveling around and stopped to visit another relative, they found that they had been given the dog, Bandit. My grandpa fell for this dog, and she seemed to bond to him immediately, so they brought her back. She is a spoiled brat now, and ok with butt brushing. So even bad mistakes seem reversible. Although we could probably write off her confidence as little dog syndrome. Most of them seem to thing they're bigger than a great dane. :roll: :shrug:
naja-naja
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby naja-naja » Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:15 am

is there a reason to crop or dock other then looks?
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Ash
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby Ash » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:18 pm

naja-naja wrote:is there a reason to crop or dock other then looks?


In some breeds, yeah. Like working breeds. I know with corgis you want to dock their tails since they're working a bunch and can get them infested with fleas or could get stomped on by the cows. Some bigger breeds wag their tails hard enough that they break them--heard dobermans do that more often than owners realize.

It's been the traditional look of the breed for a long time. Back in the day there were more practical reasons to dock and crop. Nowadays, unless you have a working animal, the reasons are for cosmetic purposes. I still respect someone's decision to crop/dock. If someone doesn't want to, that's cool too. But I'm not bothered by it.

I personally think that all the time and energy people put in to pass laws against cropping and docking really would be better spent stopping actual cruelty...

The ethics of modifying an animal in the name of tradition and cosmetics can certainly be up for debate. However, most people against it claim it is "cruel." And let's just be blunt... there is nothing cruel about it. The animal is in no pain and will lead a perfectly normal life with or without a tail or natural ears. As said, the ethics of it can certainly be argued, but the argument that it is cruel, is just void. People often forget the definition of cruelty.

Our yorkie's tail is docked. We wanted him to have a natural tail, but the breeder we got him from had all the puppies docked early. He's still a cutie with his "little nub" though. Sometimes I worry that if he had a normal tail he'd chew it off anyway, lol.
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CitricPrincess
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby CitricPrincess » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:47 pm

On this topic I am mostly on the side of 'owners choice, for the most part, it is most certainly not cruel', and, in fact, many breeds known for those looks I prefer with them- If I ever get a doberman (which I kinda want one day) it would probably have at least cropped ears, I just think they look better that way. But, if you say that in public any more, people will probably go off at you accusing you of taking your dog to a back room and mutilating the poor dear with a butcher knife. Often because they read something about it on facebook. I love people, sometimes, if I'm sitting back out of their reach with a bowl of popcorn. I'll say that much.

I think people like to spend the time and energy on that one because it's so much more out in the open and common than most forms of cruelty. It's something all people have seen, so it's easier to sway their opinion on that. But don't quote me, that's just why I think it's such a big issue, I have no sources to back that up.

I can say for certain that sometimes the tail docking is for the dog's own health. When I was in middle school, I volunteered at the local humane society most weekends. Once I came in to find one of the dogs had a freshly docked tail, all bandaged with a cone. This dog was at that 'full grown puppy' age. When I asked about it, the staff who had been there gave me this wonderful story as the other day the dog was wagging her tail so hard that it hit the sides of her pen and broke, and broken open, and blood was everywhere, and the happy happy dog didn't even notice and just kept wagging and wagging. So they got the vet to dock it before the dog could hurt herself worse. I'm just glad I wasn't there to have to help clean it up. (Actually, if I had been present, I'd probably have passed out. I don't mind the sight of blood consciously, but I have an inherited blood weakness so if I see significant blood I get dizzy and my vision darks. Ick) So... yeah. Even for a non-working dog, tail docking is not always for cosmetic only reasons.
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Ash
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby Ash » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:30 pm

Yikes... Yeah, I've heard in the larger breeds they'll smack their tails so hard they injure themselves. I mentioned dobermans often doing that above, but other breeds can certainly do that. Do you remember what breed of dog it was at the humane society where you volunteered?
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CitricPrincess
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby CitricPrincess » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:14 am

Mutt. She looked like she likely had some pitt or a similarly structured breed in her, but really could've had anything in her.
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby vulpini » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:47 pm

I know this is a rather old topic, but I recently found >>this series of posts about breeding for bobbed tails as opposed to docking, and I found it incredibly interesting (it's also a rather addicting read)

Thought some of you might be interested in it. It does pose a unique proposition: What if docking could be eliminated by the introduction of bobbed tail genes into certain breeds where docking is desirable?
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby Ash » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:53 pm

I wonder how that would happen. I thought cats naturally had bobbed tails, but dogs didn't. Do you have a link to the article your'e talking about? Would love to read it.
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:16 am

He used fancy linking. Click on "this" in his text.
vulpini
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Re: Cropping and Docking

Postby vulpini » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:44 pm

Oops! My bad--I didn't realize that the link would show up so hidden in the text haha

Here's the article: http://www.steynmere.co.uk/ARTICLES1.html

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