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Trying to unify pet owners to save our animals. Please help

Hunting/Farming/Taxidermy, any topic that may get heated debate.

WARNING things may get a bit rougher here than the other forums.

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Nìmwey
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Re: Trying to unify pet owners to save our animals. Please h

Postby Nìmwey » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:30 am

In an ideal world, that would be nice if it actually did more good than harm. (I have myself decided to never have kids, mainly for environmental reasons, but also because I have zero interest and would be a terrible mom.)

But in reality, I'm afraid it would be a bit too Hitler-ish. :/
It's mainly people in poor countries, with poor education, having lots of kids. In western Europe (and the US?) it seems the average kids per couple is only 1.5, which means the population will decrease with 25% in one generation - of course, again, this does not apply to the majority of the world, with poorer people. (If more overpopulated countries could do like China with a 1 or 2 child-limit, that would be good I guess...)
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to have when we have land are camels, wolfdogs/wolves, coyotes or jackals, striped hyena or aardwolf. Also poultry, rabbits water buffalo and/or yak for livestock.
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: Trying to unify pet owners to save our animals. Please h

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:42 pm

You only have to look at China to see that human population control works very poorly. What happens if someone does get pregnant and wasn't supposed to? Forced abortion and sterilization? What if the pregnancy is too far along of they live out in the sticks and the baby is already born or even a full child? Take it from it's mom and give it to someone "more deserving" and prison for the parent? Heck maybe even kill them they weren't allowed to be born in the first place so have no right to life.

It's not as big a deal here but people will still favor having boys over girls and people here are still known to do horrible things to kids already so you're going to get a lot of girl babies dieing or you know they might just abort the female babies instead if not prohibited. I suppose having a larger number of males than females could help decrease the population too though. What if a person was raped, will they be allowed to keep their kid if they want(sometimes they do) do they need to prove it, how so, a conviction? Seems like convictions can be pretty hard to come by. I mean there's millions of untested rape kits and untried cases already. So a backlog and no justice? Oh well to bad you failed to prove it was rape bye bye baby.

It's not so neat and tidy. It's a right because once you regulate a thing like that freedom is no longer exists.

Heck lets stop all social programs including medicare and lets people starve and die. That'll thin the population. The amount of harm will be about the same in the end as birthing regulations.

Or, you know, maybe we could do more to educate people. There is an inverse correlation between education and money with the number of kids people tend to have.
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Re: Trying to unify pet owners to save our animals. Please h

Postby veralidaine » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:18 pm

Nìmwey wrote:But in reality, I'm afraid it would be a bit too Hitler-ish. :/


The Hitler-ish approach to reducing population would be to round people up and kill them. Regulations on births shouldn't be oppressive if people can consider the practicality instead of clinging to the principle. And anybody who wants a child could still easily adopt. The only difference between giving birth to a child and adopting one is mental; the weird attachment that people have to the idea of their child being really theirs.

TG, I don't see how birth regulations would be equal to letting people starve/die, in fact, I came up with it BECAUSE it would be preferable. I think rights and freedoms are subjective. Maybe we've had the luxury to view having children as a right but that may no longer be the case and we might have to re-evaluate. Many people would view being able to drive a car as a right but as it's proven when they get older and their mental abilities are slipping, driving is a privilege, not a right, and can be taken away because of certain circumstances.

Also, China has a whole list of other problems with human rights that may influence how the birth regulations turn out in practice. I'm not saying it would be neat and tidy, obviously there would have to be some discussions about the situations that you mentioned, but that's not a reason to not consider it, especially when we have shown our inability to find other effective solutions. Not to mention, I'm not convinced that it would have to happen for very long. I mean, right now a large chunk of our population are baby boomers at the end of their life. If we just reduce the number of births while they live out the rest of their lives, I'm sure it would be a major improvement. I know it probably won't happen because many people are emotionally attached to the idea of being able to do anything they want even when they don't have a specific reason to do so, but I like to suggest it anyway because I don't see why we should avoid options simply because they are emotionally distasteful.
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Nìmwey
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Re: Trying to unify pet owners to save our animals. Please h

Postby Nìmwey » Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:01 am

Yes, maybe wrong word, but I just mean that restricting who can have children - most people would see that as something eugenics-like, or at least too intrusive to "human rights", as they see it. But I think I'm getting too off topic.
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to have when we have land are camels, wolfdogs/wolves, coyotes or jackals, striped hyena or aardwolf. Also poultry, rabbits water buffalo and/or yak for livestock.
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Nìmwey
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Re: Trying to unify pet owners to save our animals. Please h

Postby Nìmwey » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:06 am

Oh well... this thread got very much off topic in the last couple of pages, starting with the mandatory spay and neuter laws, and then moving on to privilege vs. right, and human population. :icon-wink:

But I still think a lot about this.

We get very frustrated with new bans, and we say that it would be nice if there were some real organization. But that isn't going to just happen.

ATX Exotics was only here for three posts, but are the rest of you still willing to do something like this?
Try to start up an organization for all pet owners, baby steps, but it must start somewhere.

And I have yet to find a place on the internet with so many diverse pet owners in one place as here.
We could create a "letter" or message to give to anyone we see (internet or otherwise) who owns reptiles, foxes or anything really, and ask if they want to be involved. No money of course, we just want their voice of support, and then we'll see what happens if it becomes something real.

I don't really know how things like these are done, so I need help.
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to have when we have land are camels, wolfdogs/wolves, coyotes or jackals, striped hyena or aardwolf. Also poultry, rabbits water buffalo and/or yak for livestock.
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Ash
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Re: Trying to unify pet owners to save our animals. Please h

Postby Ash » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:43 pm

I've tinkered with the idea for a while, actually. USARK right now is the only reliable one I trust that stands up for both reptile owners and mammal owners. It focuses mostly on reptiles, but it would be great if it focused on mammals just as much.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas

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