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Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizards?

Snakes, Lizards, Salamanders, Turtles, Frogs, etc.

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Rejillia
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Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizards?

Postby Rejillia » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:14 am

I saw two at the pet shop today (a really tiny one and one about 4 feet long), and my boyfriend and I are considering getting one some time in the (distant) future. The lizards at the pet shop seemed so friendly, and the lady working there said they take the bigger one out of his tank occasionally and he just chills out under the shelves. :D I also read that you can take them for walks on a harness. The only problem is that my sister told me they are venomous, and that the bites can be life threatening. I tried doing a little bit of research on them, but I saw nothing about them being venomous and I just wanted to confirm if they are or aren't. Thanks in advance! :))
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby Juska » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:44 am

This site has kids petting one, and it doesn't mention anywhere about them being poisonous. It also has theirs on a leash in some photos. http://www.bearriverranch.com/an_Black_ ... nitor.html
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby Ash » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:37 pm

There is a new study out showing that monitors are all venomous, same with iguanas. It used to be that people thought that it was just bacteria in their mouth, but some people are starting to say that they actually have mild venom. I don't know if it's true or not though--I don't think there has been enough study to confirm it.

Monitors have lots of bacteria in their mouths (or maybe venom if the new studies are correct) so that's probably what she's talking about. It's probably easy for a bite to get infected, and I suppose in some cases it could be life-threatening if not treated.

The likelihood of that happening probably isn't very great though, but it's a good thing to know before you get one. :icon-wink: If you get a tame one, you probably wouldn't really have to worry about it. Just don't try to kiss it on the face, lol. In some lizards that makes them act defensively and they'll bite you.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby Rejillia » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:20 pm

Thanks for the info!! :)

I knew that that study applied to komodo dragons, but I had no clue it applied to all monitors (didn't even know that about iguanas)! So, if I was bitten, would it be ok if I just washed it out really well? Or would it be better if I went to the hospital?

Thanks for saying that about kissing lizards on the face. >< I probably would've done that, too. I always kiss my snakes on the tops of their heads. lol
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby Ash » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:48 pm

If I get a monitor, tegu, or iguana, I probably won't be able to help myself, and I'll kiss it, lol. I know it's not a good idea--in fact, it's a really bad idea--but I just don't think I can resist. :lol: I kiss my snakes all the time on the top of their heads too.

If you were bitten you could wash it out really good with soap and anti-bacterial stuff. Then just watch it and make sure it is healing well. The same thing can happen from snake bites even if the snake isn't venomous. (Then again, some people are proposing that all snakes are slightly venomous too.)
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby Rejillia » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:45 pm

If I get a monitor, tegu, or iguana, I probably won't be able to help myself, and I'll kiss it, lol. I know it's not a good idea--in fact, it's a really bad idea--but I just don't think I can resist. :lol: I kiss my snakes all the time on the top of their heads too.

If you were bitten you could wash it out really good with soap and anti-bacterial stuff. Then just watch it and make sure it is healing well. The same thing can happen from snake bites even if the snake isn't venomous. (Then again, some people are proposing that all snakes are slightly venomous too.)



I'll probably end up doing it too. :lol: I've seen a bunch of videos with people cuddling with their black throated monitors, so maybe if you get them used to being touched on their heads from the time they're really little, they won't have that reaction. I hope. :P

Ok, that sounds alright if it's gonna be kinda like a snake bite. :) I know that I'll probably get bit by one of my corns eventually (but then again, they're all pretty mellow), and that doesn't bother me at all. :P I didn't know that all snakes might have venom though, I wanna look into these studies more now. :) As far as monitors, now I remember watching a TV show where they said monitors have little pits in their jawline where the venom might ooze out and mix with their saliva. The same pits have been found in the skeletons of Megalania too (which was what the show was about). I think it's pretty cool.
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby daladada » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:39 pm

I don't reccomend getting one if you have little or no experience with carnivorous or omivorous reptiles. They can grow to be 1.8 meters long. Their bite is venomous and monitor bite can break your bone. Just do a couple quick google searches.
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby Ash » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:33 am

daladada wrote:I don't reccomend getting one if you have little or no experience with carnivorous or omivorous reptiles. They can grow to be 1.8 meters long. Their bite is venomous and monitor bite can break your bone. Just do a couple quick google searches.


No, their bites are not venomous. I once thought they could be venomous because some scientists were saying they might be, but research has now proved otherwise yet again so I know better now. Komodo dragons have a septic bite--so as far as monitors go, it's only their bite that can be potentially fatal and require hospitalization.

In the lizard world, gila monsters and the now 5 species of beaded lizards have venom. ;)

A bite from any large monitor is something to be taken seriously though regardless. Lizards can leave some nasty bites, even iguanas. Sure the bite is not going to be fatal if you get your hand bitten by a blackthroat, but you will still need to go to the emergency room depending on the severity of the bite for treatment and stitches. Saw a really bad bite recently on facebook too that an experienced owner got from his lizard (not a blackthroat).

I don't think any monitor is a good first-time lizard except for those who are dedicated and do their research beforehand. Monitors require a lot of space and a lot of work, and most aren't ready for that commitment. But if someone has experience with them and has talked a lot with breeders and keepers who have been in the hobby for a while, then it can work out.

I've come to absolutely love blackthroats. :) I think they are gorgeous. One of the prettiest monitors, in my opinion. My work is getting one in January, so I'm super excited to finally start working with one soon.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:12 am

So this was found to be not true? What was it they mistook for venom glands on the scan? http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com ... rty-mouth/

"Komodo Dragons posses six venom glands on each side of the lower jaw (which, combined, can hold about 1.2 millimeters of venom) and multiple ducts located between their teeth."
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby Ash » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:29 pm

TamanduaGirl wrote:So this was found to be not true? What was it they mistook for venom glands on the scan? http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com ... rty-mouth/

"Komodo Dragons posses six venom glands on each side of the lower jaw (which, combined, can hold about 1.2 millimeters of venom) and multiple ducts located between their teeth."


Let me do more research. I know that even after the study came out there was and still has been lots of debate over whether or not the glands seen were in fact working venom glands, and whether or not the proteins were actual venom, or more just "venom-like." I may be forming my "facts" on the opinions of a large pool of scientists that are highly skeptical of the actual venom theory. But I don't know if they have published anything proving otherwise yet, so it may be that the current theory is indeed that they are venomous.

Hm. Now I need to go on a research spree. :) I've always loved the idea of giant, venomous lizards.
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:59 pm

Well in case you miss it the first link has a lin to this and it is an earlier article that details the tests done more http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com ... n-tactics/
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby Ash » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:23 am

Thanks. I read through all the links. I spoke with a friend of mine, and this is what he told me about it:

Dr. Bryan Fry a well known venom researcher known as venom Doc from Australia listed them as venomous and was interviewed by Nat Geo about it creating all the hoopla, the components that are analogous to venom are anticoagulants, there are no pain causing, cell destroying, blood clotting, tissue deleterious agents, so by that definition we would also have to include vampire bats and mosquitoes as venomous as well because they have anticoagulants in their saliva. Absurd. Same guy who claimed pythons and iguanids such as bearded dragons and green iguanas were venomous technically because of trace presence of venom proteins. He is diluting the term venom to the point of no meaning. That is the heart of the problem, the word venom has no standardized definition so scientists bicker over it. He is on my facebook friends list and other venom sites I visit and we argue good naturedly all the time. Many other venom researchers such as scott weinstein and wulfgang wuster also do not agree with him. Bottom line is monitors including the komodo have no effective LD50 kill rate for their saliva alone, so are for all intents and purposes not venomous even though they have identified venom proteins in their saliva that are anticoagulants that cause excessive bleeding. Many keepers have been bitten by various monitors (that Fry claims are venomous) including me and there are groups tracking rare unusual reactions but it is like saying garter snakes are venomous, sure technically they have prey specific venom components to their saliva or durvernoy's glands so are venomous but they are still harmless from a medical standpoint with humans so are thought of as nonvenomous. that said, some in the elaphid family although technically venomous are still harmless to humans due to weak prey specific venom, same with weakly venomous snakes such as the hognose and other U.S. rear fangedsnakes that are considered harmless.


Only the helodermids are truly venomous lizards with effective venom channeled through modified teeth from an active venom gland that has an immediate effect on victim when used for predation or defense, not just some random saliva venom components at low quantities from unmodified saliva glands and teeth.


And he sent me the link to Fry's website here in case I wanted to read up on his views: http://www.venomdoc.com/.

So it is certainly a matter of debate. I guess it depends on your definition of venom.

EDIT: I asked my friend a few more questions, and will report back on what he says.
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:42 am

Okay. Definitely some personal definition. I mean technically anything that uses venom to kill it's prey is venomous even if not venomous to humans. As far as Komodo Dragons go though their bite is said to kill humans too so the only question is exactly why.
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby Ash » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:04 am

TamanduaGirl wrote:As far as Komodo Dragons go though their bite is said to kill humans too so the only question is exactly why.


That was actually my follow-up question to him. So I will see what he says. He's a lot more invested in the venomous community than I am, and since he actually talks to the "greats" in the community regularly, he knows more of what's up and is more knowledgeable.

I don't know enough about venom to really form my opinion. But if the komodo dragon is venomous, apparently the lace monitor is too (according to the study).

I have heard the theory from this guy about iguanas being venomous, and I do think that is just kind of silly. I think he may be going overboard on the venomous thing, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's incorrect about the komodos.

In my experience, more reptile hobbyists/scientists disagree with the study than agree with it, but obviously numbers don't make something scientific.
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Re: Anyone know anything about black-throated monitor lizard

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:47 pm

Agree if a species doesn't have enough of the proteins to cause a reaction and also use it as a means to at least disable prey then it's a big stretch to call them venomous, like the iguanas.

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