PUT EXTRA MONEY IN YOUR POCKET
https://www.ebates.com/r/SYBIL414?eeid=29041

My Fox Is A Bully

Red, Silver, Marble,Fennec, grey, corsac, Artic Etc.

Moderators: Ash, TamanduaGirl

User avatar
Ash
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7917
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:38 am
Location: Utah

My Fox Is A Bully

Postby Ash » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:48 pm

My fox is a bully. Carousel is a big, big bully. She did not start off this way when introduced to the other foxes, but she is now. I believe it is because she feels intimidated by Ifrit, as well as feels jealous of her.

Anytime I'm petting Ifrit or giving her attention, Carousel will bolt over, squabble at her, and then chase her away. And that's when Ifrit whimpers off and acts submissive.

It got to the point when Carousel would not let Ifrit eat. If she saw Ifrit go over to the food, she would chase her away again, squawking and screeching. Ifrit would drop her food and then go and flop over to show Carousel was in charge.

So I separated them. I fortunately have an emergency/quarantine pen that is not being used. It is only 5x10x6, so definitely needs to be expanded. But I threw it together when I thought I might have to take in another fox spur of the moment. Anyway, Carousel was in the quarantine pen for about five days, and oddly enough, she missed the other foxes. During this time, Ifrit was HAPPY to be away from her; her overall behavior was so much better.

Well, the quarantine pen is definitely too small to house a fox and was really only meant to be a temporary solution. So I put Carousel back in with Fable and Ifrit after five days. The foxes were surprisingly SO happy to see each other. Ifrit was squeaking, squiggling, smiling, as was Carousel. They were getting along SO well for a few days after that. They really did miss one another and were legitimately happy to be reunited.

Carousel has since, however, gone back to being a bully. It isn't as bad as before--Ifrit can actually walk around the enclosure now without getting bullied and can finally eat. What's interesting though, is Ifrit BRINGS Carousel food now. She'll gather up the food, and make gulping noises at Carousel (greeting sounds), and then plop the food down in front of her. Carousel accepts her offering, but as soon as she finishes eating it will chase Ifrit away with squawks and screams.

Even though it's better than it was, I am worried that it might get worse again. So obviously they are going to need to be separated. My only solution is to expand the quarantine pen, but right now I only have enough panels to make it a 10x10, which is minimum size. I think it would be hard for Carousel to permanently move into a smaller space after having such a huge enclosure up until now.

So I tried swapping out Ifrit into the smaller pen, but she called for Fable and stared at him all day long when I tried that. Was planning on rotating Ifrit and Carousel into the smaller pen so they could each take advantage of the big enclosure without coming into contact with each other. Well, it won't work since Ifrit gets SO sad when she is away from her tod.

SOOO, here is my current plan:

I'm going to go ahead and expand the quarantine pen to be the minimum size for a pet fox, which is 10x10x6. Then, I'm going to put Carousel in it during the weekdays, and then let her go into the big enclosure on the weekends. The break from the other foxes should be long enough for her to be happy and grateful to see them again. And the two days together shouldn't be long enough to start problems.

I suppose if this doesn't work out (I think and HOPE it will) then the smaller pen would be okay for Carousel with more furniture added. I don't like the idea of keeping my foxes in a minimum-sized enclosure, but it would have to do.

It's not Carousel's fault she's a bully. I think it's just because she perceives Ifrit as a threat--another vixen who plays in her space, eats her food, and gets my attention. So she feels like she needs to put her in her place.

I wish they got along better, but it's just who Carousel is. A big bully, lol. Can't blame her for being a vixen and acting like one.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
User avatar
TamanduaGirl
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10340
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:42 pm
Location: Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:46 pm

Sorta sounds like Hyzzie. When I first got her she would eat her food then chase Quasi away from his and guard his, even though full, and if kibble was left out all the time she would obsess and guard it. Of course dogs are different and she did it because she was used to not having food and eventually got over it. But for awhile I had to feed them separately till she figured out there would always be food.

So something else to try if you do meal feeding is separate while eating. If you leave food out you could try several different places with more than enough food for all. It will mean some wasted food but she can't guard all places and might eventually realize there is always enough for all.

If it's more a rivalry thing then that wont work but could be worth a try based on her past.
User avatar
Juska
Posts: 2180
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:08 am
Location: Pennsylvania, US
Contact:

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby Juska » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:55 am

Do you think spaying her would help the aggression at all? (Sorry if she's already spayed and I didn't know lol)
Pet parent of Emo the border collie mix, Conte the schnoodle and Namira the harlequin cat!
User avatar
Ash
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7917
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:38 am
Location: Utah

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby Ash » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:03 am

She is already spayed, so that's not the issue there. But I wouldn't have thought about that. Ifrit isn't spayed, but she's not the one causing the problems...

Carousel was used to not having a consistent supply of food when growing up and came to me malnourished. She's always been ultra possessive and aggressive over the food. Probably because she fears it will run out, like Hyzzie did. Maybe she'll get over that too. That would be nice.

I think it's a combination of the above and rivalry. I'm going to see how it goes over the next few days with them together. Carousel doesn't seem to bother Ifrit nearly as much if someone isn't out there. I watch them through the window to make sure they're getting along. I sit by the open window nearly all day, so I can hear if they squabble. They only got in a squabble once yesterday, I think it was. But otherwise are okay when I'm not there.

Ifrit was just so happy to be left alone. I want her and Fable to be happy. But I also want Carousel to be happy. The solution may be to split Carousel from them and get a male fox for her to pal with. She does better with Fable, and I think that's because he's a male and is bigger.

A lot of it may also be Carousel's age. She should mellow out next year since will be 2 years old. SHOULD is the key word there, lol.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
User avatar
Juska
Posts: 2180
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:08 am
Location: Pennsylvania, US
Contact:

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby Juska » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:26 am

Maybe time will help her mellow out. I think building her a separate enclosure nearby would be your best bet at this point...then if she doesn't chill out by the time she is 2 or so, maybe that would be the time to get her a buddy.
Pet parent of Emo the border collie mix, Conte the schnoodle and Namira the harlequin cat!
User avatar
sarajeku
Assistant
Assistant
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:11 am

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby sarajeku » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:27 pm

Maybe it's the fact that Ifrit isn't spayed? Daisy (who is spayed) absolutely hated Kismet until I got Kismet spayed. Maybe it is something about how she smells? I dunno. Daisy is a weirdo.
Image
User avatar
Ash
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7917
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:38 am
Location: Utah

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby Ash » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:55 pm

That's an interesting thought, Sara. I wonder if that could be a reason for it.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
User avatar
TamanduaGirl
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10340
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:42 pm
Location: Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:48 pm

That does seem to be true of dogs. The unfixed ones seem more likely to start something with intact ones. Think it makes them more insecure.
linseylou
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:18 am
Contact:

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby linseylou » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:08 pm

I have noticed that evienne and mordecai have gotten pretty close and tend to sleep together leaving cole out or evienne and cole will sleep together and leave mordecai out but mordecai and cole have been avoiding each other and arguing a bit so we could be having similar issues. Mine hasn't been as serious as yours and I haven't needed to separate them though. My 3 rarely ever argue or fight so I've been keeping a super close eye on them. I guess I should see about getting cole fixed to see if it helps
You are forever responsible for what you've tamed, responsible pet ownership starts with you.
I share my life with 4 red foxes,2 raccoons, a couple human children, my hubby, dogs,and a snake
User avatar
Ash
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7917
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:38 am
Location: Utah

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby Ash » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:11 am

Well, a new development. I noticed that Ifrit's tooth is broken. I think she's in pain and can't stand up for herself, so Carousel is taking advantage. She's having a hard time eating her food, and won't really crunch anything hard. If she takes too long with her food, Carousel comes and steals it. But that's why she's not eating, I'd imagine. I bet she's in pain.

Animals do tend to bully other animals that are hurt. Like Ifrit bullied Fable when he hurt his leg even though she is usually great with him.

She's going to go in to the vet on Monday. I hate to wait that long, but I doubt it's an emergency operation they'd rush her in for. She may need her tooth extracted. If that's the case, I may go ahead and take Carousel in as well since she also needs a tooth extraction within the year. The vet noticed Carousel's tooth when she was under for radiographs and said that it wasn't urgent, but should be taken care of in about a year. So maybe I'll just get it over with with both of them.

Makes me feel really bad for Ifrit. Actually, I'll call the vet tomorrow and see if there's something they can give her for the pain. She's whimpering a lot, especially when she has stuff in her mouth.

So this may be why Carousel is suddenly taking advantage of her, and why Ifrit is acting so submissive.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
User avatar
Ash
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7917
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:38 am
Location: Utah

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby Ash » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:52 pm

I got a much better look at Ifrit's tooth. It's not broken, but the tip doesn't look like it's in good shape. I pressed on it though and it didn't cause her pain. I stuck my whole hand in her mouth and touched and bounced against all her teeth and she didn't react. Really weird. She's not eating anything remotely hard, but will eat soft stuff. So she acts like she's not feeling well in that aspect.

I'm glad the tooth isn't broken and there's just something wrong with the tip.

Ifrit was actually really good today, standing up for herself. She just ignored Carousel, rump-butted her away, and for the most part held her own. The hard food we gave Ifrit though was eaten by Carousel to her dismay. But she couldn't/wouldn't eat it anyway.

Not sure if there's really anything going on with her mouth or not now. Maybe I'm looking too deep. She still may go to the vet.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
User avatar
Juska
Posts: 2180
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:08 am
Location: Pennsylvania, US
Contact:

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby Juska » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:38 am

Maybe take her in and have them examine the soft tissue and gums in her mouth...there might be something there you can't see, causing her pain or at least apprehension to hard food. Sometimes tooth and mouth pain come and go.
Pet parent of Emo the border collie mix, Conte the schnoodle and Namira the harlequin cat!
User avatar
Wiggles
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: My Fox Is A Bully

Postby Wiggles » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:22 pm

I would keep them as male/female pairs with the remaining foxes being kept singly just to be safe.

Keep in mind that foxes aren't very social animals in nature; they tend to stay in mated pairs. However, sometimes they will live in a group consisting of a mated pair & their female offspring that have yet to leave the group. In the case of the family group, the younger females will not come into heat during breeding season and tend to function like worker bees in a beehive & help care for the dominant female & her kits.

You might have some luck in the long run getting them acclimated to each other, but I still would keep to the natural order of things in order to make life easier for you & your foxes.

Return to “FOXES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest