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Can a Fennec, Red & Klee Kai coexist indoors

Red, Silver, Marble,Fennec, grey, corsac, Artic Etc.

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Re: Can a Fennec, Red & Klee Kai coexist indoors

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:25 pm

amine9876 wrote:Northern Exotics still breeds them. I wouldn't live anywhere they were specifically excluded so it would be on the table from the start.


Also that pic is of an adult Silver and a semi-adolescent Fennec. It was one of the few videos I found on two actually meeting but you can tell the Fennec isn't full grown yet.


Northern has been telling people this summer that they are no longer breeding.

I'm sure cows aren't "Specifically excluded" on most pet friendly contracts either but if you tried it you'd get kicked out for it. Foxes are also not a normal pet so you should get prior written permission. Written permission can help to protect you from getting kicked out. When I rented before the lease had my pets names and exact number. When one died and I wanted a new one I had it added and had his permission because a new one wasn't in the contract yet.They were just dogs but had I gotten a new dog without it being in the contract he could have evicted us for violating the contract. What is the harm ,why avoid it, because they might say no? If you know there's a chance they will say no so don't ask, that sounds like sneaking to me.

That fennec is 5 so was 4 when that was taken. That's not a juvenile but a full grown fennec.

I guess I'll add that earlier you said reds don't start getting active till 5 years old. I don't know where you got that but that's middle aged and when they would start slowing down, all years before that would be their more active.
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Re: Can a Fennec, Red & Klee Kai coexist indoors

Postby amine9876 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:44 pm

TamanduaGirl wrote:
amine9876 wrote:Northern Exotics still breeds them. I wouldn't live anywhere they were specifically excluded so it would be on the table from the start.


Also that pic is of an adult Silver and a semi-adolescent Fennec. It was one of the few videos I found on two actually meeting but you can tell the Fennec isn't full grown yet.


Northern has been telling people this summer that they are no longer breeding.

I'm sure cows aren't "Specifically excluded" on most pet friendly contracts either but if you tried it you'd get kicked out for it. Foxes are also not a normal pet so you should get prior written permission. Written permission can help to protect you from getting kicked out. When I rented before the lease had my pets names and exact number. When one died and I wanted a new one I had it added and had his permission because a new one wasn't in the contract yet.They were just dogs but had I gotten a new dog without it being in the contract he could have evicted us for violating the contract. What is the harm ,why avoid it, because they might say no? If you know there's a chance they will say no so don't ask, that sounds like sneaking to me.

That fennec is 5 so was 4 when that was taken. That's not a juvenile but a full grown fennec.

I guess I'll add that earlier you said reds don't start getting active till 5 years old. I don't know where you got that but that's middle aged and when they would start slowing down, all years before that would be their more active.


Don't worry I always fully intended of having my animals registered and accounted for wherever I lived. I am obviously getting written permission, to add a clause in my contract. I also browsed and selected two lawyers for cases where I'd be wrongly persecuted or should I run into any obstacles against anyone who isn't aware of Montreal's animal laws.

I wasn't aware that Northern Exotics isn't breeding anymore. I'll still find a way though as living in Canada is a must for upcoming national changes but giving up on a Fennec is non negotiable.

I've seen bigger Fennecs than him at around 5 though so guess he's on the healthy and small side. Even Scout (Dro's) looks slighttttly bigger. Enn&Yui on IG is a prime example of a dwarfish breed. The slightly bigger fennec I speak of is Mayafennecfox or fox_kuzma on IG. I've collected over 1000 of quality images of them, I've been fascinated by them since I was a child as they are from my home country's area (I'm Algerian and they spread out from the Sahara and Mediterranean border outwards Morocco & Algeria). I was prone to pay obsessive attention to them for over a decade while always wanting to one day own one.

Believe me when I say I understand where you're coming from with their size, I'm just saying it varies and I'm not strictly putting all my bets on getting a bigger fennec and smaller red. I'm just pointing every logistic towards the best outcomes, which is the whole point I'm here, to gather what you all have to say to further what I have prepared and planned already.

As for the reds being more active that's really an estimation because I've heard literally equal counts on all my bookmarked links regarding foxes that some are more calm, snuggly, lower tempered, amicable, trained, docile and not as destructive (both russian counts and regular semi-domesticated breeds if at all). Then others being crafty devils who need intense supervision, proofing, meal schedules, socialising, outdoor time and overall more work than what they observed elsewhere (from friends or foxes they met prior).

This is why this is mostly a gamble of what personality of a fox I'll be getting so I need to make anything else I can control as well as it can be. Also why a fur farm isn't my ideal choice despite having so many here in Canada, as they've been bred to anticipate the owner who feeds them while simultaneously terrified of the very same hand. Over years that doesn't do much good to a fox's genealogy and plasticity over years. It's not always the case as a lot of farm rescues turn out outstandingly well like Ayla (thedo.do.com/ayla). But paying +7000$ for a domesticated one is out of the question, I'd pay that much for an Aardwolf here or half that overseas, but not that much for a fox despite their goofy playful nature and reduced aggression.

(Btw I'm 24 if that clears any guesses as to who's speaking)
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Re: Can a Fennec, Red & Klee Kai coexist indoors

Postby Lara » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:03 am

amine9876 wrote:
Don't worry I always fully intended of having my animals registered and accounted for wherever I lived. I am obviously getting written permission, to add a clause in my contract. I also browsed and selected two lawyers for cases where I'd be wrongly persecuted or should I run into any obstacles against anyone who isn't aware of Montreal's animal laws.

I wasn't aware that Northern Exotics isn't breeding anymore. I'll still find a way though as living in Canada is a must for upcoming national changes but giving up on a Fennec is non negotiable.

I've seen bigger Fennecs than him at around 5 though so guess he's on the healthy and small side. Even Scout (Dro's) looks slighttttly bigger. Enn&Yui on IG is a prime example of a dwarfish breed. The slightly bigger fennec I speak of is Mayafennecfox or fox_kuzma on IG. I've collected over 1000 of quality images of them, I've been fascinated by them since I was a child as they are from my home country's area (I'm Algerian and they spread out from the Sahara and Mediterranean border outwards Morocco & Algeria). I was prone to pay obsessive attention to them for over a decade while always wanting to one day own one.

Believe me when I say I understand where you're coming from with their size, I'm just saying it varies and I'm not strictly putting all my bets on getting a bigger fennec and smaller red. I'm just pointing every logistic towards the best outcomes, which is the whole point I'm here, to gather what you all have to say to further what I have prepared and planned already.

As for the reds being more active that's really an estimation because I've heard literally equal counts on all my bookmarked links regarding foxes that some are more calm, snuggly, lower tempered, amicable, trained, docile and not as destructive (both russian counts and regular semi-domesticated breeds if at all). Then others being crafty devils who need intense supervision, proofing, meal schedules, socialising, outdoor time and overall more work than what they observed elsewhere (from friends or foxes they met prior).

This is why this is mostly a gamble of what personality of a fox I'll be getting so I need to make anything else I can control as well as it can be. Also why a fur farm isn't my ideal choice despite having so many here in Canada, as they've been bred to anticipate the owner who feeds them while simultaneously terrified of the very same hand. Over years that doesn't do much good to a fox's genealogy and plasticity over years. It's not always the case as a lot of farm rescues turn out outstandingly well like Ayla (thedo.do.com/ayla). But paying +7000$ for a domesticated one is out of the question, I'd pay that much for an Aardwolf here or half that overseas, but not that much for a fox despite their goofy playful nature and reduced aggression.

(Btw I'm 24 if that clears any guesses as to who's speaking)


Is there a specific reason you are set on a red? Maybe if you are this set on it, just do the Fennec if you have to? They would probably do better in an apartment, and don't get aggressive like reds can when they are kept inside.

People saying Reds are calm are usually comparing them to other foxes like fennecs, not to other animals like dogs. My red was a pretty skinny lanky boy. He didn't weigh a ton, but he would go after 5 pound wild rabbits if he had the chance. So even if you were able to get the biggest fennec and smallest red, it still isn't risk free. And it is great that you've acknowledged the risk, but do you have a plan? Would you be able to completely separate all your animals and still give them the appropriate space? If so, it is less of a risk, but you would still have to make sure your neighbors were okay with being woken up at 2am by the red screaming.

Most of the videos and pictures will show the best part of living with a fox. They show the part where the fox is cuddling, sleeping, etc. Not the part where a fox marks the couch, clothes and bed making it permanently smell like a skunk. This isn't the owners fault; if they posted pictures of their fox's food aggression over chicken, people would freak. It is just extremely hard to understand everything about foxes from videos.
Last edited by Lara on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can a Fennec, Red & Klee Kai coexist indoors

Postby Lara » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:04 am

Also, have you looked into Fennec diet information?
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Re: Can a Fennec, Red & Klee Kai coexist indoors

Postby amine9876 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:23 am

Lara wrote:
amine9876 wrote:
Don't worry I always fully intended of having my animals registered and accounted for wherever I lived. I am obviously getting written permission, to add a clause in my contract. I also browsed and selected two lawyers for cases where I'd be wrongly persecuted or should I run into any obstacles against anyone who isn't aware of Montreal's animal laws.

I wasn't aware that Northern Exotics isn't breeding anymore. I'll still find a way though as living in Canada is a must for upcoming national changes but giving up on a Fennec is non negotiable.

I've seen bigger Fennecs than him at around 5 though so guess he's on the healthy and small side. Even Scout (Dro's) looks slighttttly bigger. Enn&Yui on IG is a prime example of a dwarfish breed. The slightly bigger fennec I speak of is Mayafennecfox or fox_kuzma on IG. I've collected over 1000 of quality images of them, I've been fascinated by them since I was a child as they are from my home country's area (I'm Algerian and they spread out from the Sahara and Mediterranean border outwards Morocco & Algeria). I was prone to pay obsessive attention to them for over a decade while always wanting to one day own one.

Believe me when I say I understand where you're coming from with their size, I'm just saying it varies and I'm not strictly putting all my bets on getting a bigger fennec and smaller red. I'm just pointing every logistic towards the best outcomes, which is the whole point I'm here, to gather what you all have to say to further what I have prepared and planned already.

As for the reds being more active that's really an estimation because I've heard literally equal counts on all my bookmarked links regarding foxes that some are more calm, snuggly, lower tempered, amicable, trained, docile and not as destructive (both russian counts and regular semi-domesticated breeds if at all). Then others being crafty devils who need intense supervision, proofing, meal schedules, socialising, outdoor time and overall more work than what they observed elsewhere (from friends or foxes they met prior).

This is why this is mostly a gamble of what personality of a fox I'll be getting so I need to make anything else I can control as well as it can be. Also why a fur farm isn't my ideal choice despite having so many here in Canada, as they've been bred to anticipate the owner who feeds them while simultaneously terrified of the very same hand. Over years that doesn't do much good to a fox's genealogy and plasticity over years. It's not always the case as a lot of farm rescues turn out outstandingly well like Ayla (thedo.do.com/ayla). But paying +7000$ for a domesticated one is out of the question, I'd pay that much for an Aardwolf here or half that overseas, but not that much for a fox despite their goofy playful nature and reduced aggression.

(Btw I'm 24 if that clears any guesses as to who's speaking)


Is there a specific reason you are set on a red? Maybe if you are this set on it, just do the Fennec if you have to? They would probably do better in an apartment, and don't get aggressive like reds can when they are kept inside.

My red was a pretty skinny lanky boy. He didn't weigh a ton, but he would go after 5 pound wild rabbits if he had the chance. So even if you were able to get the biggest fennec and smallest red, it still isn't risk free. And it is great that you've acknowledged the risk, but do you have a plan? Would you be able to completely separate all your animals and still give them the appropriate space? If so, it is less of a risk, but you would still have to make sure your neighbors were okay with being woken up at 2am by the red screaming.

Most of the videos and pictures will show the best part of living with a fox. They show the part where the fox is cuddling, sleeping, etc. Not the part where a fox marks the couch, clothes and bed making it permanently smell like a skunk. This isn't the owners fault; if they posted pictures of their fox's food aggression over chicken, people would freak. It is just extremely hard to understand everything about foxes from videos.


Wahahaha. You'll probably laugh but foxes have always been my spirit animal. Growing up watching Naruto, doing psychedelic drugs in nature & getting the seal tattooed on my abdomen is the absolute reason why I can't renounce fulfilling my adoration for them.

Also most of my videos aren't just the positive lmao. I've made sure to document separately the good videos and bad ones. All the bad ones I've put away specifically to keep in mind what it is I'm getting into and what I should work around to avoid happening. I understand my persistence to have a Fennec and Red seems troubling but if diligence, knowledge, patience, planning & practice is what it will take then those will be the happiest 15 to hopefully 18 years having them.

My neighbours would need to be okay wherever I went because I'm probably noisier than screeching at times lol. Plus it's nothing worse than living with constant baby wailing one after another. Either way, I'm heading for a spacious condo like fox_kuzma, he's the happiest Fennec I've ever seen next to maron__0626 (on IG). Condos are good for dissipating sound and having elevated ceilings to contain noises as opposed to tiny, narrow and compact apartments where you can hear footsteps of people above lol.

The fourth animal in question is an Aardwolf, loving the fact that they're insectivores, nocturnal & shy as hell. But not only are they impossible to find in North America but I still haven't learned all I can on them yet, still gathering further information than basics. Unfortunately there are no books on Aardwolves regarding their nature in captivity so not only would I have to search or travel back to Africa to secure a breeder but I'll definitely need to get him when I have a house as I'll definitely get over the condo and have enough for my dream house. This is also why I'm not rushing to get any of these animals. I would hate to have anything unforeseeable put even a dent into my plans so I have to plan 5 steps ahead to make sure I'm secured in every aspect.

I'll get the Fennec first, the Klee Kai a year later, curb the dog's prey instinct, then the Red another year & a half or so, with the Aardwolf last whenever I have a place luxuriously spacious enough to have them all.

Also most of the quality videos I manage to find are from russian and asian accounts on youtube and instagram, but without any english tags, so you can't look them up you'd have to find them through someone else (IG) or related playlists (youtube) to run into them, but they'll post anything and everything. Not just the positive. They don't care :lol:
Last edited by amine9876 on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can a Fennec, Red & Klee Kai coexist indoors

Postby amine9876 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:29 am

Lara wrote:Also, have you looked into Fennec diet information?


I've printed and memorized the care sheets for all 3 species plus the medium cats & monkeys I'll be getting in my forties and sixties respectively. I still haven't decided which diet to go for because one I don't know which preference my fennec will have in particular, will he love fruits more than kibble or will he be an extremely picky eater and eat what he wants when he wants it. So I'll have to test out different variations to see what he likes best when I have him.


Oh also:

http://livingwithfoxes.weebly.com/legality.html

QUÉBEC

(Red foxes that can easily be distinguished from wild foxes by their size [some captive-bred foxes can weigh up to 35 pounds, while the average wild fox weighs 8-12 pounds], their shape [tailless fox, floppy ears, curly tail...] and their colour [captive-bred colours such as marble, platinum, cinnamon, amber, pearl, white faced...] can be legally possessed within the province without a permit).
Therefore, all captive-bred colours which are easily distinguishable from the native colour (red) are legal. Foxes which can be distinguished from wild foxes by their shape (floppy ears, curly tail, etc.) can be legally possessed, even if they are red - because their shape does not correspond that of a typical wild fox.
Last edited by amine9876 on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can a Fennec, Red & Klee Kai coexist indoors

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:13 am

That all sounds a lot better. I think you'd need at least 2 bedrooms so you can keep the foxes separated, at least at night and when not supervised. You will want somewhere the fennec can escape to that the red fox can't at least if ever off leash when together, like den boxes with holes just small enough for him. A red kept inside should really have their own room anyway. One of those Russians that has one inside posted a video of him in his crate crying and they said he cries like that all night. If he at least has a large room of his own set up for a fox to be free to be a fox, that will help a lot. If you want to read a horror story of what can go wrong with a fox inside look up Aeroz's posts. If you are willing and able to change things if it's not working then I'm not as against it but horror stories like that one are why most of us have strong reactions when house pet fox is brought up.

Ikigai mostly screams at night when he wants my attention, and when the phone rings. It sounds enough like a fennec contact call that he feels the need to answer. But I've heard that gets less squeaky and cute as they get older. Red foxes are a lot louder and harsher. I can hear them from across the river and blocks away sometimes when outside.

The main issue really will be smell most likely. Anteaters smell much like reds but a friend who has both claims the reds smell stronger. We got kicked out of a hotel before due to the odor, no matter how much I scrubbed that thing daily myself before leaving for the day they complained and eventually booted us. The next place was cool with us though. So the trick will be finding a place with cool neighbors and landlord.

I have in depth info on diet on my fennec website http://tiny-foxes.com/Diet.html
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Re: Can a Fennec, Red & Klee Kai coexist indoors

Postby amine9876 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:32 am

TamanduaGirl wrote:That all sounds a lot better. I think you'd need at least 2 bedrooms so you can keep the foxes separated, at least at night and when not supervised. You will want somewhere the fennec can escape to that the red fox can't at least if ever off leash when together, like den boxes with holes just small enough for him. A red kept inside should really have their own room anyway. One of those Russians that has one inside posted a video of him in his crate crying and they said he cries like that all night. If he at least has a large room of his own set up for a fox to be free to be a fox, that will help a lot. If you want to read a horror story of what can go wrong with a fox inside look up Aeroz's posts. If you are willing and able to change things if it's not working then I'm not as against it but horror stories like that one are why most of us have strong reactions when house pet fox is brought up.

Ikigai mostly screams at night when he wants my attention, and when the phone rings. It sounds enough like a fennec contact call that he feels the need to answer. But I've heard that gets less squeaky and cute as they get older. Red foxes are a lot louder and harsher. I can hear them from across the river and blocks away sometimes when outside.

The main issue really will be smell most likely. Anteaters smell much like reds but a friend who has both claims the reds smell stronger. We got kicked out of a hotel before due to the odor, no matter how much I scrubbed that thing daily myself before leaving for the day they complained and eventually booted us. The next place was cool with us though. So the trick will be finding a place with cool neighbors and landlord.

I have in depth info on diet on my fennec website http://tiny-foxes.com/Diet.html


damn that's a brilliant idea, will definitely put extra thought into good hiding places.

Lol just reading that story about the phone made me smile. The smell is something I'll still keep looking for a perfect routine and product line to keep at the most absolute minimum, whether at home or wherever we go.

I'm thinking, should I have the Fennec in my room, the red own the 2nd bedroom, & then let the dog have free reign/comfort space over the living room?

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