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Sigh..neighbors.

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zebrafox
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Sigh..neighbors.

Postby zebrafox » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:30 pm

I decided to share the good news with my neighbor that id be adopting a domestic fox, mostly to be polite and attempt to avoid conflict down the road. This old woman is in hers 80s, strongly religious, knows nothing of science and doesnt believe in evolution.
She doesnt understand what domestication is, and thinks the fox will be dangerous and "turn on" humans. Now that she knows thats what the enclosure is for, she is interfering with construction, harassing my construction guy and getting into my business. before any of this I even had in my blueprints plans for a wooden, opaque wall facing her property so that she would NOT have to see or be bothered by the animal. Also so that if she got a dog or had one in her yard, it wouldnt harass my fox. Anya wont even be out there when im not home, and even then only part of the time, as she has her indoor enclosure. This really does not affect my neighbor!
Im really frustrated. Why do ignorant people so love to cause problems for others?
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the_unstable
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby the_unstable » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:36 pm

Ash is having similar issues: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8858
Even similar post title lol.

Anyway, I'm not surprised that your elderly neighbor is not taking too kindly to the idea. Some people, particularly those who have lived for quite a while, are set in their ways and are not readily accepting of new concepts and ideas of our ever-changing society and culture. If she is causing serious issues, first tell her to stop and if she continues, you could choose to involve law enforcement. She has no right to interfere with your personal matters or harass your construction workers.
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby TobiasAmaranth » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:01 pm

As said above, as long as owning the animal is legal, it's unlikely she has any right to stop you. She's just old and set in her ways, and at this point Unstable's advice is entirely correct. Insist she stop, and if she still keeps poking her nose where it doesn't belong, bring in the law to repeat your words.

Also, I would highly suggest getting a low-level camera security system pointed at the cage and of course a key lock for the pen. You will be owning an unusual animal, and even if Anya won't be out there when you're not home, it's still a good idea to have a camera pointed at her in case she disappears from her pen or someone takes some wire cutters to it when you aren't looking.
Footage of two Russian Domesticated foxes, currently residing at the Austin Zoo and Animal Sanctuary.
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the_unstable
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby the_unstable » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:20 pm

I didn't even think of the camera suggestion. That's a good idea. Might even want an electric or barbed wire perimeter fence too...after all, getting this fox from the Institute is a big deal. Should someone find out the cost of the fox, they may decide to try and steal her.
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby TobiasAmaranth » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:00 pm

That's been one of my biggest fears towards getting one, yes. I'm not a paranoid person, but I know the value of the human race. The absolute best thing to do, outside of a secure and monitored pen, is not to mention how much the fox cost to people in the area. It's okay that they know what she is so that they are not afraid of her, but they don't need to know how much you spent to get her.
Footage of two Russian Domesticated foxes, currently residing at the Austin Zoo and Animal Sanctuary.
25-clip Playlist - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2E542464FD1F2CCE
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby Nova » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:04 pm

The good news is if you get the police involved it will be on record, that way if she tries to cause trouble again they will have previous knowledge of this issue. And I agree with taking security precautions as week, An animal with supposed value, it'll be far too tempting to steal.
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zebrafox
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby zebrafox » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:23 pm

I have a copy of the national geographic magazine that the domestic fox article is featured in. i meant to take it over to her last night and talk to her, but i was out taking care of other business after work and got home too late.
while my construction guy was working today while im at work, she came over to harass him again. since our enclosure follows all the construction permit guidelines and she couldnt make anymore stink about that, she told him i shouldnt even be allowed to have this animal and that it probably isnt legal. she called the other neighbors around me and told them all whats going on, and got them "investigating" to see if having the fox is legal or not. she went on about how there was a gorilla that attacked its owner blah blah insert irrelevant exotic pet attack cases here.

There are no county or city ordinances that are contrary to the State laws regarding this animal or any exotic animals. Actually in their Ordinance Code Definitions the fox isnt even an exotic animal since the species is native to michigan. It even conforms to their official definitions of a Domestic Animal (which it doesnt have to, it would still be legal, its just funny that its in the same category as a dog or cat as far as the city is concerned). Everything is legal. She just doesnt want me to have Anya.

Im so angry and disappointed with people. this woman is willing to sacrifice good will and friendship with a neighbor over irrational fear of a 10 lb domesticated animal. I know ill have to be extra extra careful now, and thats ok. Its just disappointing, I thought that neighbors freaking out over a FOX (its not like im getting a tiger) was something that happened to other people, but wouldnt happen to me, because i had neighbors that I got along with (up until this point...)

I just wish people were less fearful, more rational and logical...more fair...and less hypocritical. Her religion tells her evolution isnt true - so she of course obeys, ignores science and doesnt understand the difference between a dog and a wolf. But her religion also tells her to love thy neighbor. Why not obey that as well?
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:45 pm

After the article you may just want to let it go. Some people just can't be reasoned with. She may even be of the AR mind that owning any "wild" animal is torture. Showing them proof the fox is domesticated wont make those kind any happier either. Extreme AR think domesticating animals is an abomination and all animals should remain wild and natural.

If it's just fear then the article might help but it sounds like it wont if she doesn't believe in evolution then the evolution of domesticating can't happen either. It's worth a try but anything after that would be pointless and may just make it worse.

Out of sight out of mind may be the best approach. Get a view barrier up and don't talk to her about it any more. Eventually she'll have to give up.

Is she coming on the property to bug the workers? You could warn her about trespassing if she remains too aggressive.

Personally I'd rather take my chances locked in a room with a tiger than a raging human. I understand the tiger better.
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby TobiasAmaranth » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:09 pm

*offers hugs* I wish I was there to be able to help. I tend to be fairly good at non-violent confrontations like that. I can be very persuasive and equally stubborn. :)

It sounds like, for the most part, you've got everything under control. Outside of the fact that she's coming by when you aren't even there. I take it you've decided you're not moving before getting Anya? I thought I saw you talking about looking for a different house?
Footage of two Russian Domesticated foxes, currently residing at the Austin Zoo and Animal Sanctuary.
25-clip Playlist - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2E542464FD1F2CCE
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the_unstable
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby the_unstable » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:52 pm

It doesn't sound like she will be reasoned with. She needs to mind her own business and love thy neighbor! I'd say it's time to warn her to stay off your property and stop harassing your construction worker or the police will be involved - make it clear. If she's just some ignorant, straight-laced old woman like she sounds to be then she ought to take that warning seriously and back off. Also, time to get a privacy fence and prepare to put a very secure perimeter fence around the enclosure that either has barbed wire at the top of it or with an electric current running through it. The security camera is an excellent idea, not just for the neighbor but because this fox is very special - the first one from the Institute in the nation, and people who know about it will consider the value.

Perhaps, after Anya arrives, the neighbors whisper all about the scary barey fox arriving in town, things will settle down and people will realize it's not something to fear or care about.

Maybe for a while, when you first get Anya, you should keep her indoors at night. Anyone looking to steal her would (I would think) try and take her at night. If, for those first few weeks or more, they're watching and see that she is kept inside at night, they may stop watching and give up on the idea of taking her. It will also keep her safe from neighbors who wish to cause harm.
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Alynn
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby Alynn » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:57 pm

She's not the first though. There are a few more - I think in the Nat Geo article they had a picture of a fox living with a family in St. Petersburg.

But I echo everyone else here. Keep a tight security on this fox as I wouldn't put it past people to steal it, and involve the police with that lady if she keeps trespassing and harassing you.
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the_unstable
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby the_unstable » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:32 pm

Ah, I thought she was the first as Sibfox wasn't working out and I thought the Institute wasn't selling to the US or something. I forget the things I've read about it.
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby TobiasAmaranth » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:59 pm

There may be others but there's noone that is advertising the fact they have one. The Institute was technically able to sell them prior but details are limited. I honestly have no clue where Sibfox got that number 6. I'm glad I'm not the only one worrying over security with this particular critter, though. ^_^
Footage of two Russian Domesticated foxes, currently residing at the Austin Zoo and Animal Sanctuary.
25-clip Playlist - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2E542464FD1F2CCE
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zebrafox
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby zebrafox » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:37 pm

so today, the neighbor called the city, and told them i was planning on housing a wild animal in the enclosure. Zoning ordinances only allow domestic animals to be houses in enclosures. But she told them it was wild, so without even contacting me or asking me about the true details, they posted a notice at the construction site ordering construction to cease.
I am well within the law according to the ordinances, I HAVE READ THEM ALL, so i called the head of zoning and spoke with him. He seemed reasonable and said he needs information and documentation on the foxes in order to see that its really domesticated and grant me permission to continue building. Im organizing documentation for him tonight on the foxes and will be dropping it off at his office tomorrow for him to look through. Then he will contact me for a sit-down with an attorney to discuss the decision making.
I am extremely confident that I am well within all laws, so i think this will turn out in my favor. As for the nutty neighbor lady - I went over and gave her a copy of the nat geo article and asked her to read it, and explained domestication to her. If she reads the article I think she will calm down... we will see. she told me she had called every house in the neighborhood and the head of the neighborhood watch telling them about my "dangerous wild animal" and really stirred the pot. So now once permission is given for me to continue, im going to have to go to the next neighborhood watch meeting to explain to people that my fox is not wild or vicious and is no threat to anyone.
i am going to have to do everything you guys suggested to keep security as tight as possible and make sure no one tries to sabotage the enclosure or hurt Anya. I am amazed what people will do out of ignorance and fear.
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Ash
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Re: Sigh..neighbors.

Postby Ash » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:14 pm

Wow, that's crazy. Just keep fighting for your rights and don't give up.
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