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The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Red, Silver, Marble,Fennec, grey, corsac, Artic Etc.

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Talys
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby Talys » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:48 pm

Wow...I thought Michigan's DNR was better than that...It sounds like something the PGC would do.
~Oreo and Snickerdoodle (cats) & Smaug and Istari (Betta splendens)~
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foxftw
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby foxftw » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:37 pm

were they coming by to inspect your fox enclosure or something or to try and confiscate your fox or something?
achronicity
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby achronicity » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:04 pm

Access is generally a the condition of the permitting process for keeping wild species in Michigan. The stop was probably just routine. The DNR can basically intrude unannounced to audit your compliance at any time - no warrant needed. Sucks I know, but you either agree to this or you don't get the permits. Sometimes I think that the notion that a private citizen can keep game animals threatens their authority. They really can't do anything if you ARE in compliance, but be careful with them. My advise (based on some rehab experience) is thus; be non-confrontational, keep your facilities compliant, document everything, answer their questions, but don't volunteer information unless they ask for it.
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trish_clare
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby trish_clare » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:54 pm

What a beautiful fox! I'm so happy for you :)

It's been awhile since I've been updated with your search for a domesticated fox. Would someone mind catching me up to speed? I remember you attempted to go with Sibfox, and that didn't work out (but they refunded your money).
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TobiasAmaranth
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby TobiasAmaranth » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:35 pm

X_X

Zebra, you have the luck of one ruled by the TV Gods. (A life that would make an entertaining TV show with ups and downs and all sorts of unique experiences) Let us know how it goes over the next few days. The sooner you can have things approved, the better for Anya.
Footage of two Russian Domesticated foxes, currently residing at the Austin Zoo and Animal Sanctuary.
25-clip Playlist - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2E542464FD1F2CCE
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zebrafox
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby zebrafox » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:16 am

dnr offices are totally closed on weekends.
so weird
if i would have been here he would have done the inspection and id have my permit in time to bring her home this weekend
it might still be possible if they call me back tomorrow and come out tomorrow but im doubting it will happen
i know it probably means "just one more week" but im having a hard time not being angry. lately i feel like im always fighting to get anything i want.

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zebrafox
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby zebrafox » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:36 pm

super fun government drama update time!
i finally got ahold of the dnr officer. i apologized for missing him on sunday and he opens with
do you have your city permit
im like...no...it isnt required.....
and he said he had emails regarding my city working on its new animal ban ordinances
im like look
as of now, there is no ordinance
yes ones being drafted but it doewnt exist right now and besides that im working with the city on it. they will make an exception for anya and they want me to bring her to city council to meet her
also i just bought a new house in a different city so im moving anyway
i have spent thousands of dollars on this animal and i intend to do everything legally, and this means a hell of a lot to me, so can you help me out and just let me bring her into the state?????
i was on the verge on tears so he just goes
okay, ill send someone out tomorrow

lol
im so tired of just having to fight for everything, that i must sound unstable :P

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Talys
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby Talys » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:03 pm

Good luck! I REALLY hope you get that permit and that the inspection goes smoothly! The only thing I think is unstable right now is the city and the dnr's communication skills, or lack thereof, and just that officer in general. He'd just better give you that permit or...else. :twisted:
~Oreo and Snickerdoodle (cats) & Smaug and Istari (Betta splendens)~
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sarajeku
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby sarajeku » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:11 pm

It's already been said, but good luck! You don't sound unstable to me.
At least you're trying to do everything legally. They should appreciate that. I'm sure not everyone would.
Image
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foxftw
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby foxftw » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:11 pm

oh man that makes me so mad! if they dont let you have your fox ill come punch them all in the nose!
philosophox
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby philosophox » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:30 pm

Having worked around more government red tape than I can shake a stick at (and that's just because my arm gets tired - that's a lot of stick shaking), I understand the frustration-unto-tears. Hang in there! You are so close!!!
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zebrafox
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby zebrafox » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:02 pm

Well, the DNR guy finally called me yesterday. And I lost it. I broke down and cried.
There is now some serious catch 22 bull*** with the permit now because the
state DNR guy is like "well if your city isnt going to allow me to
give you the permit im not going to". this is total BS for about 100 reasons but i will break it down comprehensively to 12:

1) it is WRITTEN NOWHERE IN THE STATE LAW THAT CITY PERMISSION BE
GRANTED in order to have a state permit. It is entirely at the states discretion

2) the state will not issue me my permit unless the city says its OK
for me to put anya in the enclosure.

3) no where in the state law/permit application does it say that i need to actually put the animal
in the enclosure
that is required in order to get the permit. i just need to build it. it says once
you have a permit, anywhere on your property is acceptable to keep the animal,
including in your house, which is where id be keeping her if the city zoning truly did not allow her in the enclosure.

4) its written NO WHERE in current city law that i CAN NOT put anya
in an enclosure in my yard anyway

5) the city is in the PROCESS of writing a law banning keeping wild
animals. keyword: PROCESS.this law has not passed and again no where in
current law says i couldnt have anya or keep her in an enclosure
outside

6) one of the city zoning guys keeps saying to the state DNR guy that
"well there used to be a law against it in 1972 and it got lost
somewhere along the line" as if that is reason for it to be illegal
now and as if it would ever actually hold up in the court of law.
He has NO record or documentation or proof that a wild animal law ever actually existed in 1972 anyway!

7) even if this ordinance passes, which it HASNT YET, im confident
that i have a solid case for her being a domestic animal and NOT a wild animal under the
citys own definitions.

8) On march 19th I was meant to bring anya to the
city council and introduce domestic foxes to them and explain why
according to their own definitions she would be considered domestic
and why she is not dangerous. They would then write into the ordinance that domestic foxes are allowed (or not! thats fine too! i could send her back to mitch's for another week! thats why i have another house!) The city council is expecting this and I have the city managers permission to do this.

9) i cant get anya into the state to bring her to the council meeting if i dont have my state permit.

10) I need the city to say "its OK for her to put anya in the enclosure" in order for the DNR guy to give me my &*^#*%&ing permit. They arent going to say that before they have met her and before I have made my case for why she should be an exception. The whole issue here is that they dont know what these animals are. So they will most likely just tell the DNR guy "no she isnt allowed to put anya in the enclosure". DNR guy stamps DENIED on my permit application.

11) i could ask the city manager for the favor to tell the state DNR guy that i have permission. but the city manager is now on vacation and is unreachable. Even when i do get in touch with him, he may just say no, that he isnt going to do me that favor.

12) now comes to super special part of this all: I ONLY NEED A STATE PERMIT
BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF HER FUR. if she were a platinum or silver or cross or
ANY OTHER COLOR SHE WOULD BE CONSIDERED AUTOMATICALLY DOMESTIC BY
STATE LAW, even if i had LITERALLY trapped her out of the wild and brought her into my house.

I brought up this point when i told the DNr officer "well, i should be able to have the permit even if i dont keep her in the enclosure"
and he replied something like "the state doesnt recommend keeping wild animals indoors so you need to be able to have the enclosure"
and i go "i know you dont RECOMMEND it but that doesnt mean its LAW and besides, if i had any other color of fox id be able to keep it indoors and the state law would consider it to be domestic, so why are you guys seriously going to make me actually need to keep her outside just because of her fur color? besides that this fox has actually been bred for tameness for over 50 years and is a true domestic, so youre going to make sure to treat it in all regards as a wild animal because she was born with red fur, but if i go and trap a completely wild cross fox in the woods RIGHT NOW and bring it into my house the state will view it as domestic!? it makes absolutely NO FREAKING SENSE.

The DNR officer actually did not know of this law and contended to me that the state regards all red foxes as wild animals!!!!!!!!!!!! WHICH MAKES ME EVEN MORE MAD BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY #*#*& PERSON I TALK TO IN THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE LAWS ARE!!!!!!! OR HOW LAW EVEN WORKS!!!!!!!!!!

OBVIOUSLY you can see how enraged and frustrated I am. my biggest pet peeve EVER is when people act in ways that DONT MAKE SENSE and negatively effect others. So all i could do is cry
im just so tired of this. SO TIRED OF IT!

I bought another house in another city but the closing date isnt for another month or so. At that point I will have to begin construction on another enclosure (gee im glad i spent a couple grand on one already that cant even be used, woopie!) wait for that to be built, then wait for that to be approved by DNR. THEN i can import her. Oh, thats all if my new city isnt full of morons who just say arbitrary things that they feel like that arent written down anywhere and call it law. because if they do then im going to have to go through all of this again with that city.

SWEET!!!

YEAH AMERICA!!!!!!!!! LAND OF THE FREEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
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Talys
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby Talys » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:10 pm

..... .... :twisted: There are a lot of things I would like to do to that guy right now. Wow. It wouldn't help things at all...but still.
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Ash
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby Ash » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:37 pm

Zebrafox, your rights are literally being denied. If I were you, I would speak with an attorney, call the state back, and then threaten with legal action. This is just unacceptable in every way and Michigan can't get the impression that they can bully people like this.

I can see why you're so angry and frustrated. I wouldn't let this go if I were you. If they feel they can tell people on a whim that "no, you can't have your permit yet" then how far will they go with others who aren't as aggressive about these things?

It's just out of line. Call back and ask to talk to whoever is in charge of the man who called you back and tell them you are considering legal action.

That's what I would do at least.

I feel you have been extremely flexible with this entire situation, but I'd say enough is enough.
I'm Fable and Ifrit's mommy. Also mommy to Carousel, Breeze, and a bunch of snakes, lizards, and spiders. Oh, and one amphibian!
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zebrafox
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Re: The Anya Gallery (Image Heavy)

Postby zebrafox » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:56 pm

since this is supposed to be anyas picture thread....Image



^ the terrifying beast that lives within the nightmares of my neighbors and city government.

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