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Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

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the_unstable
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Re: Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

Postby the_unstable » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:29 pm

I thought the same thing that Amyers said. Besides, it's not CR's fault that the pictures don't have watermarks and she can't identify the photographer/owner of the photos because of where she found them (or at least most of them). She already stated that she does not own them so if someone runs across the page and thinks it's a free info site and that they can repost them, then they should have read the post! She doesn't own them so she cannot give those rights.

Also, random pictures get linked and posted on forums all over the place, it doesn't mean that they're just automatically available for someone to use to make a profit off of them. Everyone is responsible for themselves, so if someone comes here thinking they can use the images to make money then that is their own fault that they are stealing someone else's work. It's kind of obvious that the images are just randomly linked from somewhere else on the web. They're clearly not all by the same photographer. So yes, if someone just thinks that they're an irresponsible idiot.

/rant that wasn't meant to be a rant
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Ash
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Re: Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

Postby Ash » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:39 am

It is a violation of copyright, actually. Whether or not you're profiting, you are still using someone else's images without permission. Only if you find pictures that are explicitly labelled for non-commercial use, or if you find some in the public domain, then that's when it is okay. If you got the nod from the photographer, or whoever owns the rights to the photos, then it's okay too.

I have really strong opinions regarding copyright and copyright laws. I won't go into detail here though because I know many will disagree with me. Being an artist and trying to make a living off of it is hard when people don't respect copyright. Just as an aside: The aardwolf picture in my profile pic is not mine, but it is for non-commercial use; that's the only reason why I'm using it. :icon-wink:

I don't want to make an issue of it on here though, lol. It's a pretty touchy subject for everybody, so I try to avoid it. :icon-wink: I just wanted to clarify that it doesn't matter if you're making a profit or not. It's a common misconception.
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Neofelis
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Re: Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

Postby Neofelis » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:47 am

Isn't there a fair use clause, and a specification for educational use? I think this could fall under educational, in which case it's allowed. At least, I know it works like that for music.
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Ash
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Re: Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

Postby Ash » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:52 am

Many people try to stretch the educational clause too far. It applies to very specific situations.

If that were the case, PETA could take all the pictures of our pets and post them on their website saying how miserable-looking they are. It would still be considered educational according to them. Obviously, if that were to happen, I would be able to sue them for using my pictures without permission; that's why they aren't able to do that.

Also, for educational use, I think there is a certain amount of time that you can actually have the copied material. I think that if a professor handed you a copy of sheet music (legal because of educational use) you would need to destroy it after a year or so (I don't remember the exact time span).
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the_unstable
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Re: Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

Postby the_unstable » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:10 am

Wouldn't the photos actually have to be legally copyrighted rather than just "Hey, yo, I took these photos and they're MINE. If you use them, I can SUE YOU"? I'm not really sure how that stuff works.
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:59 pm

No soon as you create something or take a photo it is your property. Getting the official copyright or trade mark just makes it easier to prove.
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Ash
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Re: Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

Postby Ash » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:30 pm

Actually, even the "educational use" explanation I gave above is incorrect; I double-checked because I was a little rusty in that area of the law.

The laws are very vague on purpose, because it's almost impossible to draw a line. They simply state that it's okay to use copyrighted material for an educational purpose.

However, there is no place to draw the line, so anything is fair game in court. So if your music teacher is making copies of copyrighted music, he can indeed be taken to court by whoever owns the rights. He can argue that it's for educational use, but it's still usage of copyrighted material. It's up to the jury to decide if what he is doing is illegal or not in this case.

I've never seen any case where the "educational use" claim is enough to win a case (not saying it's never happened, I'm sure it has). It's almost always settled outside of court, so who knows what happens.

So, even the educational thing doesn't give you full protection. It may give you a fair argument, but it's up to the court to decide if the use is actually truly being "educational." So you could still be sued, even if you thought what you were doing was within the law.

In short, copyright law is this: Don't use something that does not belong to you without permission. Then the labels such as "non-commercial use, must credit the photographer, public domain, commercial-use, must ask permission first" comes into play on specific works labelled as such.
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caninesrock
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Re: Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

Postby caninesrock » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:16 pm

About half of my pictures are wikipedia photos. Therefore, they are free use. The others are being used for educational purposes like everyone said. I try to find non-copyrighted images first when wanting to show something,but sometimes there just aren't any noncopyrighted pictures of an animal out there. And sometimes I don't have a way of getting in contact with the photographer. For example, the ferret-mink hybrids pictures were from a blog that had been taken down so I couldn't see the blog or the person who wrote it's contanct info.
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Ash
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Re: Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

Postby Ash » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:36 am

I'm not condemning anybody who uses copyrighted material, because I know this topic is not the place for that discussion, and that this is a sensitive issue to many--whether you are strictly against it, or whether you don't think it's a big deal. There was just some common misconceptions being talked about regarding copyright (including one I had stated) and I felt that since I knew the real answers to them, I should post to inform people. ;)

But I do want to return this post back to hybrids. I was really excited to see the pictures and to discuss the different types of hybridized animals. A certain hybrid that I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to "make" would be a jackal/pharaoh dog hybrid. I know jackal/dog hybrids have been done before (you had mentioned it in a previous post somewhere :icon-wink: ) but I would love to see what the pharaoh dog cross would look like!

I personally like the idea of hybrids. I think it's really neat. If you are making sure to label it as a hybrid, that is. I don't like when people lie about what an animal is, and that's where I see a lot of the controversy.

I think it would also be neat to know what would happen if you crossed a serval or ALC with a sphynx cat.

I also am a fan of the python/boa hybrids out there. They can turn out really cool-looking. I haven't looked too much into them, but from what I've seen they can be quite pretty.

The ultimate hybrid I would love to see (but probably never will): Wolf/African wild dog. In my head, at least, it looks amazing, lol.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, 2 salamanders, 3 tarantulas
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Neofelis
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Re: Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

Postby Neofelis » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:05 pm

Ash wrote:II think it would also be neat to know what would happen if you crossed a serval or ALC with a sphynx cat.

I am DYING to see that! :bear: There was a breeder who was supposedly planning that very cross (calling them "sphynxannahs") but I could never find any info on actual kittens born. I think they would be soooo pretty.
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caninesrock
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Re: Interesting Hybrid(I did not take these pictures!)

Postby caninesrock » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:13 pm

Although I don't think it's possible because of genetic differences, I'd love to see what a dhole x a gray wolf, a dhole x a red wolf, a dhole x a golden jackal, and a dhole x a domestic dog would look like. I also wonder what a golden jackal x red wolf and golden jackal x gray wolf hybrid, as well as what a golden jackal x coyote, and golden jackal x eastern coyote hybrid would look like. I bet a Syrian Golden Jackal x a Mexican Gray Wolf would be gorgeous. Perhaps, one day when these animals are no-longer endangered and become common again, I can breed some together in captivity.
Exotic Wishlist: high content wolfdog or wolf,low to mid content wolfdog, Coyote, Coydog, Black-backed Jackal, New Guinea Singing Dog, Red Fox, Gray Fox, Mink, Raccoon, Coati,and Kinkajou.

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