Non-Native Foxes Legal in NC

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Vata Raven
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Re: Non-Native Foxes Legal in NC

Postby Vata Raven » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:45 am

They have the terms and definitions listed
http://www.ncwildlife.org/Licensing/Reg ... n-of-Terms

#14 wild animals (term used with Captivity License and Importation/Exportation); #4 game animals; #2 fur bearing animals; #9 non-game animals

Looking at the perspective as a hunter (I'm not) the state license only pertain to native-wild animals.
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Re: Non-Native Foxes Legal in NC

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:20 pm

Thanks. I couldn't find that the other day.

That's a crap definition. According to that even your dog is wildlife as any they didn't put in the other two is non-game animals. Also it reads as fox are only game or fur animals if take with traps so if not taken with traps are non-game animals and those are wildlife too.

But it does clear up 02 NCAC 52B .0212 since it basically says you can't import this wildlife then lists fox and the way that's written it would mean all foxes since the way it's written wild animal includes everything that's considered an animal.

So they do really need to change that if they mean for it to just be native.
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Re: Non-Native Foxes Legal in NC

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:16 pm

uh though actually that's a definition of wild animal and not wildlife. The section saying you can't have foxes has Wildlife as part of the title but with no definition for that anyone in charge can view that as they want. I mean we could assume they mean the same but you can't do that with law. Everyone assumed the fur bearer law in TX would only apply to natives since that's how it normally works and how it looked like it was meant to work then someone in charge decided it meant all foxes.

This needs a definition saying what wildlife is and or what fox species they mean.

Still a crap definition for wild animal but we need specifically a definition for wildlife. But no matter how one looks at it it still bans all fox species as written even if that's not what they want it to do.
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Re: Non-Native Foxes Legal in NC

Postby Vata Raven » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:36 pm

This is how I see it as, which may be why I don't see too much confusion.

The gaming commission is aimed mainly towards hunters, fur traders, and other people of the sort. The commissions effort is making sure those types of people get their licenses so they can legally do what they do, and making sure their customers inform them of the animals they caught/killed.

You get a license for the state you live in so you can hunt the native-wild life.
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Re: Non-Native Foxes Legal in NC

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:31 am

GC is just a different name for the fish and wildlife office, different states have different names. Yeah they do that but they normally also enforce any exotic laws, and land and plants, fishing and such though in some states the Ag may do that or both.

The issue is the STATE LAW(which covers tons of things even things the GC has nothing to do with), says no foxes. Maybe GC is saying that because of their perspective but that doesn't change the actual law.

It's really not as simple as doing as the GC says here, since they say you can as long as exotic. Again TX has the exact same issue with the law saying no foxes under the fur bearer rule. By all logic that should allow exotic foxes, who aren't typically used for fur since it's obviously meant to cover native fur bearers, and did for a long time, BUT later the department decided it meant ALL foxes and confiscated fennecs suddenly and it's been illegal to have exotic foxes sense.

Common sense does not matter here. The law does. Until it is clear getting one because the current GC say it's okay is a huge risk because the future GC could say otherwise and then you get a case like TX where animals are seized and die.
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Peacefulward
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Re: Non-Native Foxes Legal in NC

Postby Peacefulward » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:05 pm

Yep, I messaged them requesting an edit to clarify what "wildlife" and "foxes" are. Still waiting on a reply.... icon-sad
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Exotic "wishlist": red fox, mink, bat eared fox, jerboa, lemur (brown or white ruffed), egyptian fruit bat.
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Re: Non-Native Foxes Legal in NC

Postby Peacefulward » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:09 pm

Alrighty, here's the repsonse I just got.

Palamar Maria, State Veterinarian:

Hello,
I asked our policy analyst to tell me where exactly was wildlife defined and her response is below:


Carrie Ruhlman, Policy Analyst:

"Hey Maria,

Sorry it took me a while to get back to you about this!

The definitions of “wild animal” and “wildlife” can be found in 113-129. However, if you’re talking about an endangered, threatened or special concern spp, the definition of “wild animal” in 113-331 would apply.

Let me know if you have any questions."



Palamar Maria, State Veterinarian:
I know the way our statues and rules are laid out can be very confusing, they are confusing for me as well, that is why I have to rely on our policy analyst and our attorney. I am not sure I can request any changes, but I will forward your request to them so that they are aware of the need.



Thank you for your interest and let me know if I can be of any further help.



So the definitions are here: http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation ... 13-129.pdf

And here's their definition for wildlife.
(16) Wildlife. – Wild animals; wild birds; all fish found in inland fishing waters; and inland game fish. Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions of wildlife, wildlife resources, wild animals, wild birds, fish, and the like are deemed to include species normally wild, or indistinguishable from wild species, which are raised or kept in captivity. Nothing in this definition is intended to abrogate the exclusive authority given the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services to regulate the
production and sale of pen-raised quail for food purposes."



Does this help at all? It's a bit confusing for me. icon_confused.gif
5 Dogs, 2 cats, 1 leopard gecko, 1 guinea pig, 1 axolotl, and a coatimundi currently in my family. :)

Exotic "wishlist": red fox, mink, bat eared fox, jerboa, lemur (brown or white ruffed), egyptian fruit bat.
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Re: Non-Native Foxes Legal in NC

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:43 pm

Wildlife "and the like are deemed to include species normally wild, or indistinguishable from wild species, which are raised or kept in captivity."

Yeah wild animals are wild animals doesn't help.

It needs to say "and the like are deemed to include species normally found wild in North Carolina, or indistinguishable from wild species, which are raised or kept in captivity."

The last part seems to allow non wild colored specimens so would allow marble colored fox, it would seem.
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Re: Non-Native Foxes Legal in NC

Postby Peacefulward » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:05 am

Here's another reply a friend of mine got. It doesn't really addresss any issues or resolve anything, but I figured I'd share it anyways.

The NC Wildlife Resources Commission (WRC) has regulatory authority of native wildlife species. Native wildlife species are species that have historically occurred and currently occur in the wild in NC. Native foxes are red foxes, grey foxes and their color morphs (i.e. silver foxes etc.). The WRC does not currently hold the authority to regulate the possession of exotic species of foxes, however, County and Municipalities do have the authority to regulate the possession of exotic animals within their jurisdiction. The NC Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services may also have restrictions and/or requirements on the importation of foxes.

Sincerely,

-------------------------------------

Daron Barnes
Section Manager - RAPS

NC Wildlife Resources Commission
Mailing Address: 1707 Mail Service Center
Raleigh, North Carolina 27699-1700
RAPS Line: 919-707-0061 // fax: 919-707-0292


... Yeah, it annoys me that the current laws fail to define what native wildlife is. The definition given in this response is perfect, now if only they'd work on editing the laws to add this definition. :roll:

Only new info here is that color morphs of red foxes are illegal too.
5 Dogs, 2 cats, 1 leopard gecko, 1 guinea pig, 1 axolotl, and a coatimundi currently in my family. :)

Exotic "wishlist": red fox, mink, bat eared fox, jerboa, lemur (brown or white ruffed), egyptian fruit bat.
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Re: Non-Native Foxes Legal in NC

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:47 pm

At least the answers are consistent but they sure don't match the current laws. The section on not allowing foxes is about wildlife and the definition for wildlife would exclude colors not seen in the wild but unless a person has a bunch of money and willing to fight about it in court I'd listen to them and not get one.

And that current definition of wildlife includes everything else no matter if native or not but I guess if no agency has the authority to uphold the law then it's a useless law.

They really need the law rewritten or at least the definition of wildlife changed to reflect their native only policy but that might require a bill to change it.
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