Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Exotic legal issues, bans, laws, regulations, Animal Rights discussions etc.

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Onyx
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Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby Onyx » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:13 pm

I have been considering moving to a Nordic country for quite sometime now ( Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden ). I have been considering Switzerland and the Netherlands as well. No idea if or when I'd move to one, not anytime soon I know that as I am still young and just getting into the world, but I want to know... Which is best for exotics? Particularly the ones I am interested in. It is quite difficult for me to find information on it since it is all mostly in different languages, and I can't really learn a language overnight... and Google translate can be frustrating.
Some animals I am considering for sometime in the future that have a high chance to be banned or restricted include:

    - Caracal
    - Foxes
    - Genets
    - Sharks
    - Eels
    - Snakes (hots & giants)
    - Tarantulas
    - Crocodilians and monitors
    - Macaws and cockatoos
    - Raptors

Laws pertaining to domestics are good to know too. I heard that in Denmark, 13 dog breeds have been outright banned. Fortunately, none of the breeds I may ever want, except the kangal. I also know in Sweden, all birds of prey and any animal in the order Carnivora have been banned as well. So far I am thinking Denmark. Many animals are banned, but not many of the ones I am interested in. I only know some about Denmark and Sweden though. I know barely anything on the other countries. So help is appreciated! Which do you think is the best?
    Owner of a ball python, leopard gecko, two betta fish, and two cats.

    Dream Pets: Caracal, rusty-spotted genet, gray smooth hound shark, black tree
    monitor, dragon moray, doberman, Yakut laika, and Brazilian black tarantula.
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:04 pm

Not ony our list but we discussed Ireland here: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=7724&p=130751&hilit=ireland#p130751

Been a long time since I looked but Denmark was pretty good exotics wise but they have pretty strict immigration laws.
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Nìmwey
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby Nìmwey » Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:56 pm

Denmark is much better than Sweden, and Sweden is much better than Norway (in this regard only).

Denmark has a big market as far as I know, on "small" exotics, and exotic birds.
I don't have the exact laws, but I'm pretty sure they have more exotics allowed than Sweden.

Sweden is very simple - no carnivora (except for domestic dogs, cats, ferrets, and wild BADGERS), no wild birds, and no monkey and apes.
Slightly more complicated - it's said "primates" are banned, while the Ministry of Agriculture only specifies monkeys/apes (same word in Swedish - apa). Also, European native species of any animals I believe... as I'm sure you know, laws and regulations can be a maze.
But = no predatory mammals or birds, and no monkeys, unless you actually build a zoo.

In Norway, even zoos are banned, in theory, though some have special permission (dispens) to exist.
All reptiles and amphibians are banned, for decades, though 100 000 are kept illegally. The people in charge know this, but ignore it and keep the ban anyway. The ban is said to be "for animal welfare concerns", because "Norway's climate is not meant for reptiles". (It's brain-meltingly stupid, I know.)
It is definitely not an exotic-friendly country.

Iceland is an island of course, a very isolated one, and happy about it. No imported diseases or invasive animals, and they'd like to keep it that way, so importation laws even for domestic cats and dogs are extremely strict. I can't imagine them being happy about keeping even reptiles and parrots.

Edit: Now I read your full post, I'm very stressed today and just sped through the actual question before writing.
So you know a bit about Sweden, and yeah, I wouldn't recommend it. I've tried finding out about other European countries but it's hard (especially if you don't speak the language, and I'm only fluent in Swedish and English), me and hubby just want to go to the states. :p He asked if we should switch. :icon-wink:
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to acquire when we have land are camels, alpacas, wolves, coyotes or jackals, bobcat/lynx, striped hyena or aardwolf.
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Onyx
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby Onyx » Mon May 01, 2017 9:07 pm

Thank you for the information!!

I haven't considered Ireland before. I'll look more into it.

Norway and Iceland have been totally ripped off of my list and chunked outta my window (never really wanted to live in Iceland anyway). "Norway's climate is not meant for reptiles" Oh god, I can feel my brain cells die from reading that... How about the few reptiles native to Norway???

Looks like I am sticking with Denmark. I'm still considering Sweden. I primarily focus on fish and reptiles anyway... but I REALLY would love a caracal or/and a genet one day. So yeah, unless I completely change my mind on were I want to live, or if Finland or the Netherlands are any better, I'll probably be going with Denmark.

Dude, I'd switch places with you if I could. I love the wildlife in Louisiana and I have lived my entire life here, but its just so HOT and HUMID and I HATE IT. Every summer we struggle with fleas and ticks, as insects thrive in our kind of weather... Not a fan of the politics here either. And it isn't the best state for exotics. If I were to stay in the US, I'd probably live in Wisconsin. Heard its quite an exotic-friendly state.
    Owner of a ball python, leopard gecko, two betta fish, and two cats.

    Dream Pets: Caracal, rusty-spotted genet, gray smooth hound shark, black tree
    monitor, dragon moray, doberman, Yakut laika, and Brazilian black tarantula.
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby naja-naja » Sat May 06, 2017 2:16 pm

Denmark, Switzerland and the netherlands would be best for exotics. Netherlands has a big exotics show every year. UK and Ireland are both options if you are interested in looking into either of those. As well as germany and many other EU countries.
1.5 burmese pythons
0.1 indian pythons
0.1 boa constrictors
1.1 macklott's pythons
1.3 reticulated pythons
0.1 blue tegu
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Onyx
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby Onyx » Tue May 09, 2017 2:30 am

Looking here on this post, it says that "all species, except domesticated dogs and cats, mongooses ( Herpestinae spp .), genette ( Genetta Genetta )... " are banned.

Genetta genetta is the common genet... So that means that other species of genets are banned? I'm more interested in the rusty-spotted genet... darn it.

Denmark is still looking like the best option. Apparently the Netherlands has a positive list?? It only lists mammals, and some genets and foxes aren't allowed. I can't seem to find a list of anything else.
    Owner of a ball python, leopard gecko, two betta fish, and two cats.

    Dream Pets: Caracal, rusty-spotted genet, gray smooth hound shark, black tree
    monitor, dragon moray, doberman, Yakut laika, and Brazilian black tarantula.
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue May 09, 2017 1:17 pm

Oh I forgot about Denmark making their rules more restrictive. So I guess no anteaters there either. Yeah that would mean other genets are banned.
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Onyx
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby Onyx » Tue May 09, 2017 3:39 pm

OH SHOOT I just realized caracals are banned there... Vipers are also banned, and I have been interested in pygmy rattlers and cottonmouths. Retics are banned, which is another that I have been interested in. Man, things were going somewhat okay with Denmark and then I see THIS.

As for the genets, I can learn to love the common genets. I don't know what makes it so different from the other genets to make it the only species that is legal though.

I also found out that crocodilians are illegal in Finland here. It gives a list of animals that are allowed, and explains which ones aren't. It doesn't mention caracals or genets, but they aren't in their little positive list anyway, so I'm sure they are illegal.

That leaves us with Switzerland... Foxes, exotic cats, raptors, large parrots (like macaws and cockatoos), caimans, among many other animals are banned here. The list I found is here.

My spirit has been crushed.

I looked into Belgium as well, and foxes and genets are banned (list here.)
    Owner of a ball python, leopard gecko, two betta fish, and two cats.

    Dream Pets: Caracal, rusty-spotted genet, gray smooth hound shark, black tree
    monitor, dragon moray, doberman, Yakut laika, and Brazilian black tarantula.
naja-naja
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby naja-naja » Mon May 15, 2017 2:20 pm

That leaves the UK and Ireland. The only animals banned are ones banned all over europe (coatimundi, raccoon, muntjac deer, sliders, mink, coypu etc) every other animal can be kept with no licence in ireland, or with a dwa in the UK, the main hassle would be importing them if they don't already exist within the country.
1.5 burmese pythons
0.1 indian pythons
0.1 boa constrictors
1.1 macklott's pythons
1.3 reticulated pythons
0.1 blue tegu
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Onyx
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Location: Louisiana, USA

Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby Onyx » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:40 am

The fact that practically no animals are banned in the UK, other than the ones banned across Europe, sounds great! I'll be looking into the UK and Ireland a bit more, as I haven't considered them much.

None of the animals that are banned in the EU I have really considered, but since the UK may end up leaving the EU, would they really be banned anymore? Do you think the UK will continue to enforce the ban, or will keepers be allowed to have coati, raccoons, etc? I know there is no definite answer to that right now, but it is something I have been thinking about lately.
    Owner of a ball python, leopard gecko, two betta fish, and two cats.

    Dream Pets: Caracal, rusty-spotted genet, gray smooth hound shark, black tree
    monitor, dragon moray, doberman, Yakut laika, and Brazilian black tarantula.
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Nìmwey
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby Nìmwey » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:13 am

Europe really is quite crap with its exotics laws. Only the UK has a DWA (dangerous wild animal) license instead, Ireland is very unrestricted, and also Croatia and Turkey, as I understand, but that's central Europe and barely-eastern Europe.

I'm either moving to the US, to Ireland, or even to my hubby's country (former Soviet state).

Anyway, moving to a country that is very unrestricted like Ireland (or any more "lenient" state in the US), we'll still have to fight for our animals all our lives, as the ARA's are constantly trying to ban them and make more laws.
My main interest is in parrots, dogs, toothed whales and snakes.
Future animals I want to acquire when we have land are camels, alpacas, wolves, coyotes or jackals, bobcat/lynx, striped hyena or aardwolf.
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Onyx
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby Onyx » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:02 am

Yeah, I can see that. I just want to leave the US and go to a decent country where I can still live out my dreams... but I guess that's too much to ask for in this world. Liking the looks of Ireland though. But of course, ARs will always be a problem that we'll need to keep fighting.
    Owner of a ball python, leopard gecko, two betta fish, and two cats.

    Dream Pets: Caracal, rusty-spotted genet, gray smooth hound shark, black tree
    monitor, dragon moray, doberman, Yakut laika, and Brazilian black tarantula.
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby exoticcats » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:10 pm

Regarding Switzerland: The "list" you posted isn't a ban list. It's a list distributed by a Swiss "animal protection organization" of animals that according to them, don't make suitable (house) pets and shouldn't be advertised in classifieds. You do need a permit for some animals, including caracals, and it might be a pain in the a** to get. But AFAIK they aren't banned. There certainly is at least one caracal breeder in Switzerland.
Some other European countries to consider:

- Germany: Can be quite strict on granting permits (depends on local agency) for wild cats and some German states have ban laws for non-commercial facilities (i. e. exotic pet owners). But as far as I know, in principle you can own almost anything, given the right facilities and experience
- Czech Republic: Very lenient on wild cats - tons of people have them and the requirements are very low. You can even leash-walk them in inner cities (happened with a puma in Prague) and won't get in trouble.
- Slovakia: Not sure about the exact laws and permit requirements, but I know that a lot of big cat owners live there.
- Poland: Allows small cats with a permit, big cats are banned for anyone except zoos and circuses. No idea about other animals. The authorities became quite AR-minded in general lately, so not a prime choice.
- Spain: No idea about the laws, but there is at least one cheetah and caracal breeder there and some more cat owners.

Countries NOT to consider:
- France: Carnivores over 6kg (so pretty much all wild cats) allowed only for breeders and zoos/educators, I believe, and has insane permit requirements in regards to qualification for these facilities. No idea about other animals, but I've heard it's just as strict for some.
- Austria: Only zoos can have wild cats and same goes for some other animals (no idea about those on your "wish list").
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:08 pm

I know someone who has a lot of exotics in Portugal. Right next to Spain so worth mentioning.
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Re: Which Nordic country you think is the most exotic friendly?

Postby Onyx » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:05 am

That's great to hear! I'll definitely be looking into Switzerland again. Thanks guys! Thought I was only restricted to Ireland and UK if I wanted to live in Europe. Good to know there are still more options.
    Owner of a ball python, leopard gecko, two betta fish, and two cats.

    Dream Pets: Caracal, rusty-spotted genet, gray smooth hound shark, black tree
    monitor, dragon moray, doberman, Yakut laika, and Brazilian black tarantula.

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