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Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breeders?

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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby RabbleFox » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:54 pm

Coming from someone who really enjoys pure bred dogs (and by that I mean me, haha) I find the idea of not breeding a lab or golden just because they are a lot them a little bit silly. A lot of those dogs who were bought from responsible breeders are sitting at home neutered and happy. As a buyer/adopter of dogs, you should NEVER buy from a backyard breeder or puppy mill. If you don't buy the pups, they run out of business.

As to breeding your dog because he is the most perfect animal ever, Pepper was neutered at 6 months. No regrets. We love him to death but just because you love your dog doesn't mean he gets to be a daddy. If I want "another Pepper" I will go back to the breeder and ask to be put on the puppy wait list.

The reason we chose to go pure bred as opposed to mix/rescue was because my sister was 14 moths when we were getting a puppy/dog. We wanted reliable traits and trainability. Unfortunately, we couldn't risk bringing home a dog that wasn't good with children. This is also why we went with puppy instead of dog. The breeder we went with had two pups for us to pick from and a 1 year old dog. Dogs already have "bad habits" formed. Puppies will form the habits you teach them. Even now that my family has all grown older, we are considering another pure bred Australian Shepherd (standard or mini, we haven't decided). We are all old enough to know not to pull on doggies' ears and tail but we still want reliability and trainability. Eventually, my parents will be too old to want to deal with the puppy stage and will want a older dog. Perhaps then they will go to a rescue.

If you are looking to rescue, you shouldn't expect to find a golden/husky mix in my shelter if you went there right now. Sometimes its a waiting game if you want a specific mix.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby caninesrock » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:54 pm

@Juska:
Then what do you think of stem cell research? What about producing clones to use as a control in testing situations?

I don't know becuase I don't know what stem cell research is for.

So Poodles and Labradors should cease to exist because there's "too many of them" or they "have no purpose", but a mix of the two is perfectly fine?

I never said that they should cease to exsist. I only said that if people suddenly stopped breeding them, that they'd still exsist for a long time. I also never said that they have no purpose. Labradors are good retrievers like they're name suggests as well as good guide dogs for blind people that aren't allergic to dogs. Poodles, I forgot the original purpose of,but the I believe the standard sized ones were also bred as dogs to help with hunting game in water as well. My point was not that poodles or labs should cease to exsist,but that labradoodles have a right to exsist as well as unlike most desinger dogs, they were bred for a purpose just like how pure labs and pure poodles were bred for a purpose. They are not just kept as cute designer pets. They are used as working dogs just like purebreds are.

Also, no dog is "hypoallergenic". People are allergic to dogs for more reasons than just their hair. They're also a complete horror to groom. People think "hypoallergenic" and "non-shedding" means "never have to brush or groom".

Hypoallergenic doesn't mean that people won't be allergic to them at all,just that people have less of a chance of being allergic to the dog because it produces less dander than the other breeds. I said poodles and labradoodles are good for people that are mildly allergic to dogs. There is no dog that someone who is severely allergic to dogs can have though obviously.

I don't get how they have more "purpose" than either of the two breeds they are a mix of. Both those breeds can do both of those jobs, and I have seen them do it. In my experience, Doodles are high-energy, stubborn and not at all aesthetically pleasing (read: I think they're ugly).

While in some designer dogs, it is about being cute, in labradoodles that's not the point. They were started to be working dogs just like any purebred. Labs can do the job,but people are more likely to be allergic to labs than to poodles because labs produce more dander. Labs are certainly not a stubborn breed. They are very obedient and easily trainable. So,then,where do you think the stubborn-ness in the labradoodle comes from? It must come from the poodle side. Right? Poodles may be intelligent,but what good does that do if they are stubborn? A stubborn dog is disastrous for a blind person. I've rarely heard of purebred poodles being used as seeing eye dogs. It's typically purebred labs,but sometimes labradoodles are used as well.

How come Doodles are "hypoallergenic" and can be trained as service dogs, but regular Poodles can't? Because they're just made to be a fashion accessory, right? They're one of the smartest breeds in existence. They are certainly more trainable than Labs, I'll tell you that.

I never said they were fashion accessories. Toy poodles maybe,but standard poodles were bred for hunting water game if I remember correctly. I said most of the toy breeds were bred as fashion accessories. If they are more trainable than labs, then how come 90% of seeing eye dogs are labs and there are little to no poodles in that job? There's a difference between intelligence and trainablity. A dog can be intelligent,but if it's stubborn, it'll be hard to train.

You do know that people bred dogs initially just to have a friend, right? They picked certain traits and looks that they liked.

Exactly. That's the same reason why people want to bred their mixed breed dogs as well. They want a friend that has the traits and looks that they like of their dog. A mixed breed dog or mutt can be just as good of a friend as a purebred.

Not all dogs need to be rescue or service dogs to have merit. People want pure breed dogs because they have traits that can be relied on to be there in that breed.

I never said they needed to be rescue or service dogs. Purebred dogs may have good traits,but they aren't so perfect either. Most purebred dogs have atleast some health problems that are less likely to be found in mutts. When I was growing up, we used to have a labrador that ended up getting a thyroid problem that made him lose all his hair and even skin and we had to put him on medicine and eventually put him to sleep when the medicine stopped working,so he wouldn't be living miserably. On the other hand, my dad has a lab mix that he adopted from a shelter when the dog was a puppy,but the dog is old now. The dog is extremely healthy other than old age things like arthritis and has always been extremely healthy. My dad used to have purebred beagle who was the meanest dog that would always snap at me when I was little. That dog passed away from old age. Anway, he has a beagle mix now that he found abandoned in a parking lot and she's the sweetest dog and very healthy as well. He has one purebred dog as well, a Japanese Chin. The Japanese Chin is very friendly and relatively healthy,but she has bad breathing problems from the sqaushed nose that was selectively bred into her breed. There are certainly health problems in purebreds that can't be bred out even by the most responsible breeders as long as the purebred can only be bred to the set standard. For example, we could find the most responsible English bulldog breeder and even then, their bulldogs would still not be able to give natural birth because they will still have to breed for the large head too big to fit through the birth canal in order to fit the English bulldog standard look. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that purebred dogs are bad,just that there are certain standard looks, that for the dogs sake, should be drastically changed so that they are more healthy. Today we have more knowledge of how certain looks in dogs make them unhealthy than people who first bred them did. The problem with purebreds is the AKC and even breeders are still concentrating on the signature looks of the breeds and refusing to get rid of any looks that may cause health problems. Who cares if a large head is a signature look of an English bulldog? If the English bulldog can't give birth naturally, then breed the large head out of them for health's sake. Same with Japanese Chins. Breed that squashed face out of them so they can breathe. Do I think English bulldogs should cease to exsist? Of course not because they have their purpose like most purebreds. However, I think English bulldogs' gigantic heads that cause them health problems when being bred should cease to exsist even if it is a trait that is relied on to be in the breed.


So no, I still don't think random, inexperienced people should just breed their family pet, with no medical or family history, just because they think their dog is so absolutely amazing that there needs to be more of them. If you really want to get into breeding as a hobby or business, you need to invest a lot of time, knowledge and more than likely a ton of money into it. And like Sarajeku said, you need to be responsible for every single dog you produce for its entire life.

Breeding a dog to get more dogs like that, then giving them all away, is not responsible. Why would you want to make more of them if you're just going to give them away to people whom you might have no idea of how they are going to treat that animal or what's going to happen in its life.

As long as the people the pups are given to are screened to be good homes for the dogs, then what's the problem with that? And who said everyone wanted to breed for money or as a business? As for why they'd give them away, one litter can have has many as 6 pups if not more. Even if they wanted a pup or two from their dog, it's unlikely that one person would want 6 or more dogs themselves and there's also city ordinances that restirct the number of dogs that one person can keep as well.

Those unrecognized breeds you mentioned were only obtained after generations of breeding. So wanting to have a breed that breeds true, that looks like your one favorite dog, is going to take running through possibly hundreds of other dogs. That's what bothers me most. There's selective breeding and then there's being an idiot.

How do you think the purebreds started? They had to go through hundreds of "imperfect" dogs as well when they were being developed before the breed finally got to where people wanted it. Even today, there are purebred dogs that are deemed not good enough such as white Boxers(though that atleast has to do with health issues) or German Shepherds where the ears never straighten up as they age, Malamutes that are piebald,etc.

And before I forget, purebred dogs do not end up in shelters nearly as much as mutts. Why? Because if they're really pure bred dogs, their owner probably paid a good amount for them, and even if it wasn't a good match, a good breeder will take the dog back. Pure dogs in shelters are often runaways or puppy mill dogs that were cheaper than a real breeder, bought for the wrong reasons, then grew up and weren't "fun" anymore, or developed problems due to lack of proper breeding.

There are other reasons why purebreds could end up there. Expensive health problems that the owners didn't know the dog would develop, handicaps the dog gets later in life that make it difficult for an owner to care for like if a dog suddenly goes blind or something, sudden breed bans going into a effect that weren't there before, the owner developing a handi-cap that's makes it diffcult for them to give the dog the proper care it needs, adopting a dog only to find out it doesn't get along with other dogs or animals they already have in their house,etc.

In fact they are several purebred dogs in my two local shelters right now:

http://www.houstonspca.org/site/PageNav ... _main_dogs

It wouldn't let me link directly to their pages,but there is a purebred Chichua(sp?) named Mr. Jingles on the first page, and a purebred Shih Tzu named Precious and a purebred English Springer Spaniel named Bruno on page 5,at the shelter right now. So,that's 3 purebred dogs at that shelter right now.

Here's another local shelter:
http://www.cap4pets.org/pet-adoptions/dog-adoption

Here they have:
a Purebred Australian Cattle Dog aka Blue Heeler named Sarah Palin, Ginger the purebred Miniature Poodle, Mercedes the purebred Standard Poodle, and Lucky the purebred long coat Chichua(sp?)

That's makes 4 purebred dogs in this shelter.

So, there are 7 purebred dogs in shelters in my area right now.

Also, is just me or does Patches the so called Dalmation/Pointer mix look like a pitbull type dog to anyone else?


There are many more homeless purebred dogs that end up in breed specific rescues as well such as these which is probably why you don't see them as much in shelters because the rescues will try to adopt any they find at shelters:
http://www.ghgsdr.org/available-gsds.php


GHGSDR Shepherds mostly come from animal shelters where they are awaiting euthanasia. All of these Shepherd Dogs need loving, forever homes and families to call their own. We have several GSDs available for adoption and we regularly take more homeless German Shepherds under our wings and into our Rescue Program, increasing the numbers of German Shepherds available for adoption. Whenever we can, we also work with other dog rescue groups in Texas and nationwide to help ensure the safety and security of these wonderful animals.


http://www.gsdrtx.com/available_for_adoption.htm

This is young male Aries. He was rescued from "death row" where apparently nobody wanted him.


Trigger was scheduled to be put down by animal control. Apparently he has had a pretty rough life and needs a good, loving home to go to.


Bolt is a beautiful male German Shepherd Dog which we rescued from the pound.


Tovar is a pure bred male European type German Shepherd Dog. He is extremely sweet, knows basic commands, and walks like a gentleman on a leash. He was saved from death row.


Athena was rescued from animal control where she was scheduled to be put down. She is a very large, majestic, red sable European type German Shepherd Dog.


Charm is an adorable female black and white German Shepherd Dog. We estimate she is 5 to 7 months old. She was rescued from animal control where she was scheduled to be euthanized very soon.


Cassie is a wonderful young, adult, female German Shepherd Dog which we rescued from the animal control facility.


This beautiful boy was rescued from the city pound.


Larz was rescued from death row. He is a very handsome, mature German Shepherd Dog.


This adorable German Shepherd Dog was rescued from the pound.


This beautiful little girl is currently in the Kerr County Animial Control Facility, Kerrville, Texas. If she doesn't get adopted very, very soon, it will be necessary to euthanize her.


Autumn was rescued from the pound. She is a beautiful black and tan German Shepherd Dog.


Kolton is a very handsome boy. We don't know his exact age, but he's a young, black German Shepherd Dog which we rescued from animal control before he was scheduled to be put down.


And those are just the German Shepherd rescues we have here. We also have husky rescues,malamute rescues, pitbull rescues, Belgian Malinios rescues, and lots of others.

Reliable breeders care about the breed, their dogs, and all the offspring they produce. That's why GOOD breeders will require a neutering or spaying before selling a "companion" pet. So stupid crap like the_unstable mentioned can't happen, and more unwanted dogs fill up shelters. It's a vicious cycle, and could be impacted tremendously by not breeding dogs without cause.

Unstable's friend doesn't have a purebred dog,so it likely isn't from a breeder. Anyway, sometimes dogs or their humans develop unforsee-able circumstances or problems later in life when it's probably way too late for the breeder to take the dog back as they probably don't even remember they gave the dog to that person by then.

@TG:
Actually one theory is that dogs were first domesticated to be eaten and later proved their worth elsewhere, like hunting and friendship.

Yep. The pariah and primitive dogs. I love them. Those are how dogs are meant to be as nature intended. I don't quite like the idea of people eating them though. :lol:


@Sarajeku:
I never said they WERE special. Where did I say those words?

You didn't say that exactly,but you said something along the lines of HCs should be bred,but lows or mids shouldn't.

Mace is a responsible breeder. As was the breeders Cindy got her wolfdogs from. Chances are, if you find a nice HC, you will be buying from a REPUTABLE breeder.

True,but there are also irresponsible so-called "High Content" breeders that pass off husky, malamute,and german shepherds or mixes of those 3 as High Contents when they aren't.

And yes, you're right. There ARE plenty of highs in rescues.

This is the point I was getting at. Why sould mids and lows not be bred just because there are ones in rescues? High Contents are still bred even though they are in rescues as well.

Aside from you, how many people do you know are actively looking for a low? Everyone I know of that has owned a low has either rescued it

They rescued a low over a high so they must have wanted a low. Also, there are some topics on the wolfdog forum I'm on looking for lows and I think there are a couple of topics looking for lows on here as well (that are not by me).

There is one reputable mid breeder that I know of, and we've pointed you in her direction before. She's very good, and very thorough. Usually, I would just adopt a mid, but one of hers, I would buy.

What breeder is that? I don't recall that. I remember making a topic looking for malamute-wolf mixes and all I remember getting as responses is that are no reputable breeders of low or mid content wolfdogs.

Boston terriers, a toy breed, were bred for rat hunting.
Brussels griffon, ratting
Maltese, rodent control
Bichon Frise, sailor's dog

Terriers are in a seperate class from toy breeds according to the AKC. Terriers were bred for rodent hunting like you said. So,a Boston Terrier is not a toy breed,but a terrier breed. The Brussel Griffon is also in the Terrier group according to my dog breed books.The other two I'll give you but that's just some. What about Chichuas(sp?) among other toy breeds? Most of the toy breeds had their origins as lap dogs for royalty.


You realize dogs don't live forever, right? If everyone stopped breeding them altogether, then then those breeds would only be around as long as the existing animals survived. Then the breeds would die out.

Yes. Of course I realize they don't live forever. I realize they would eventually die out. But my point was that there are so many that it would take along time for all the exsisting ones to die out.
Last edited by caninesrock on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby RabbleFox » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:02 pm

If you signed a spay/neuter contract (or any other contract) with your breeder and later have to return your dog, your breeder will honor the contract. Whether they remember you or not, they HAVE To honor the contract unless they want to bring a lawyer in.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby Ash » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:44 pm

RabbleFox wrote:If you signed a spay/neuter contract (or any other contract) with your breeder and later have to return your dog, your breeder will honor the contract. Whether they remember you or not, they HAVE To honor the contract unless they want to bring a lawyer in.


Actually, this is not true. Contracts like these do not hold up in court.

If someone signged a spay/neuter contract and then chose to bred their dog, nothing legally can be done. A contract is just a deterrent and a trust thing.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby Juska » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:26 pm

caninesrock wrote:I don't know becuase I don't know what stem cell research is for.


Then don't badmouth it if you don't know what it is.

Also, you did literally say:
caninesrock wrote:Not all breeds have a purpose.

caninesrock wrote:As long as the people the pups are given to are screened to be good homes for the dogs, then what's the problem with that? As for why they'd give them away, one litter can have has many as 6 pups if not more. Even if they wanted a pup or two from their dog, it's unlikely that one person would want 6 or more dogs themselves and there's also city ordinances that restirct the number of dogs that one person can keep as well.


City ordinances about dog limits are there SO PEOPLE DON'T CARELESSLY BREED THEIR DOGS. If you can't handle 6 dogs from that litter and face the fact that there's a chance people change their minds and you could be stuck with them all, DON'T BREED ANY.

There is a problem with that, because it's needlessly bringing more lives into this world that don't need to be there.

Also, what's with your obsession with allergies and hypoallergenic dogs? Being less prone to making people's sinuses swell up isn't an important trait. Not all handicapped people suffer from allergies. Some breeds do it without even trying, so I see no need to make up another breed with that as a defining trait. It's not that important and I don't get why people play it off as some amazing trait.

caninesrock wrote:My dad used to have purebred beagle who was the meanest dog that would always snap at me when I was little. That dog passed away from old age. Anway, he has a beagle mix now that he found abandoned in a parking lot and she's the sweetest dog and very healthy as well.

Sounds like you simply have a vendetta against purebreds to me. It also seems you've been bitten many, many times as a child. Both dogs were obviously healthy. Breeders don't breed dogs with known health problems. All dogs can contract diseases. You're just a bit more likely to know exactly what's expected in a purebred, at least.

caninesrock wrote:Expensive health problems that the owners didn't know the dog would develop, handicaps the dog gets later in life that make it difficult for an owner to care for like if a dog suddenly goes blind or something, sudden breed bans going into a effect that weren't there before, the owner developing a handi-cap that's makes it diffcult for them to give the dog the proper care it needs, adopting a dog only to find out it doesn't get along with other dogs or animals they already have in their house,etc.


None of those reasons are valid reasons to dump your pet at a shelter. If it's sick and it's just going to suffer, euthanize it. Breed bans require you to find a new home for the dog within a certain period of time outside the affected area, or they will take it and kill it. They don't dump them in shelters, because it would be ILLEGAL for anyone to adopt them. And if you want to adopt or buy a dog, you should do a home visit to see if it's going to get along with everyone, not just bring it home and hope for the best and then return it if it doesn't "work out".

Your wall of text proves nothing. Out of how many dogs there are at a given shelter, purebreds are only a small fraction. It would be incredibly strange to see a shelter with mostly purebreds in it. And there's reasons for that which I already explained.

caninesrock wrote:Do I think English bulldogs should cease to exsist? Of course not because they have their purpose like most purebreds.


They were selectively bred to lose their "purpose". They're companion animals now.

caninesrock wrote:The other two I'll give you but that's just some. What about Chichuas(sp?) among other toy breeds? Most of the toy breeds had their origins as lap dogs for royalty.


COMPANIONSHIP. IT IS A PURPOSE. Also, it's Chihuahuas. Your dog book should have that in it.

caninesrock wrote:I realize they would eventually die out. But my point was that there are so many that it would take along time for all the exsisting ones to die out.


If we stopped breeding them altogether right this second, it would only take approximately 8 years for the youngest generation to no longer be able to breed. Then they would be extinct. It doesn't matter how many they are because they're all within the same age range. Saying it would take a long time for them to die out if we stopped breeding them to "thin their numbers" would eventually result in us having one entire generation of senior dogs who wouldn't be able to breed anymore. Their generations don't last as long as ours do.

Also, why should we stop breeding them? Because they're not as good as mutts, which there are millions more of than pures? How about we stop breeding mutts for no reason instead?

caninesrock wrote:If they are more trainable than labs, then how come 90% of seeing eye dogs are labs and there are little to no poodles in that job?


Maybe because a Lab puppy is cheaper than a Standard Poodle puppy? They produce larger litters? They're easier to groom and therefore easier to care for as a person who can't easily do those things themselves?

caninesrock wrote:labradoodles have a right to exsist as well as unlike most desinger dogs, they were bred for a purpose just like how pure labs and pure poodles were bred for a purpose. They are not just kept as cute designer pets.


This is actually the exact reason I dislike all Doodle breeds. People DO get them because they're cute. Then when they're called "hypoallergenic" and "easy going" by the breeders (who apparently never tell their buyers that these dogs need brushed thoroughly every day), people think they don't need to be groomed or trained for anything. Then they come to my grooming salon, with a severely matted undercoat EVERY TIME, and with no training to speak of, they go completely BERSERK when we try to groom them. We have multiple Doodles that come to our salon, and they're all a complete pain to groom. I've never seen one used as a service dog. And I used to train service dogs.

One more thing.

caninesrock wrote:Labs are certainly not a stubborn breed.


I work with dogs. Every single day. Labs are by far the worst breed I have ever worked with in the grooming salon. The bite the most, they're the most commonly neurotic, and they're the most stubborn dog breed that I have ever encountered. Once they're set in their ways there is no changing their mind. Yes they're trainable and can be desensitized to scary things. But they also have free will. A trained service dog screaming, jumping around and trying to bite someone just because they don't like their feet touched is a choice.

You really need to learn more before coming to a thread and pretending like you know everything.

I don't get why you're defending people wanting to breed mutts just to make more dogs now. You initially said that you didn't think that guy breeding his dog was a good idea. Then you just turned around and started defending it in the same post. The guy's dog is still alive, so "coping" with the loss of his dog is not what he was doing it for. He wanted to breed it just because. If everyone started breeding look-alike dogs because they loved their dog so much, we would be overrun with strays and abandonments.

It's not helping anyone. It's actually hurting all homeless dogs around the world by making more competition for finding a good home. Even if all the puppies in a litter are given to a home, those people could have simply gone to a shelter and gotten a puppy, or if they wanted a specific breed, bought a puppy that they had to wait for on a waiting list, and consequentially not get one if there aren't enough in the litter. If you buy a purebred dog there's slim chance you're going to dump it. People also tend to do much more research in preparation of bringing a dog into their home before purchasing a purebred.

If people were more responsible, spayed and neutered their pets and stopped needlessly breeding them, this wouldn't be an argument.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:36 pm

Standard poodles are not stubborn and are very smart level headed dogs. Maybe it's a matter of bad breeding but most labs I have met are hyper and stubborn. Also I've had several labs run up and attack one of my dogs, or try to. Never poodles. Standard poodles have always been sweet calm dogs. Labs being seeing eye dogs is really just because that is what was used, seeing eyes is a company. They have a special breeding program for those dogs as well. The first seeing eye dogs were German shepherds but many breeds are used by other programs or individuals training.

"Early on, trainers began to recognize which breeds produced dogs most appropriate for guide work; today, Golden Retrievers, Labradors, and German Shepherds are most likely to be chosen by guide dog facilities, although other breeds, such as Yorkshire Terriers, Standard Poodles, Collies, Border Collies, Australian Shepherds, Vizslas, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Boxers, and Airedale Terriers, may also be selected. Guide dog breeds are chosen in relation to height at the shoulder measured against harness length and an individual's height."
Image

The contracts are iffy. Yeah the breeder will take them back but it's iffy if they can do anything if you choose to give it away or sell it instead. It's kind of weird to sell someone some property then tell them what they can and can't do with it. If the contracts were written more clearly to express that you as the seller still retain some rights and so partial ownership then it would be more enforceable but even then you can only claim a penalty for breach of contract not get the dog back. Also if it was made more clear that the seller retains partial ownership less people would agree to the contracts as they don't want to pay full price to only partly own a dog.

And yeah as for spay/neuter they can't make the dog go back if you don't, again maybe if written right a small fee for breach of contract but that's it and highly unlikely.

It's actually a myth about pure breeds having more health problems, especially when bred well. It's just you know which health problems those breeds are prone to because someone kept track. If someone kept track of the mutts lines they would also find certain illnesses that line is prone to. I could easily come up with just as many or more mutts who had major health issues as you do pures as well as plenty of long lived pure breeds. I know breeder of chihuahuas who regularly live into their 20's.

Speaking of chihuahuas they are a very ancient breed or at least have their origins there, back to the dogs of mayans and other natives of the time. Their purpose was religious.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby caninesrock » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Then don't badmouth it if you don't know what it is.

I never badmouthed it. I never even mentioned it because I've never heard of it before. What are you talking about?


Also, what's with your obsession with allergies and hypoallergenic dogs? Being less prone to making people's sinuses swell up isn't an important trait. Not all handicapped people suffer from allergies. Some breeds do it without even trying, so I see no need to make up another breed with that as a defining trait. It's not that important and I don't get why people play it off as some amazing trait.

I know not all handi-cap people have allergies,but the ones that have allergies would be unable to have a service dog if there weren't hypo-allergic breeds. It doesn't seem important to you because you are not allergic to dogs,but for people who are allergic to dogs but still like and want a dog, it is an extremely important trait.

Sounds like you simply have a vendetta against purebreds to me.

Where did I say that? It's not the purebreds themselves I have a problem with,but the health problems they have and the elistist attitude many purebred breeders and owners have thinking that their dog is better than mutts or mixed breeds just because it's a purebred. I owned a purebred boxer and she was the most amazing perfect dog in the world to me. But I didn't think she was worth anymore than a mutt or mixed breed just because she was purebred or that a mutt or mixed breed didn't deserve to exsist just because they weren't a purebred. I would think you would understand my frustation on the issue since you have owned 2 mutts. If people hadn't bred mutts, you wouldn't have been able to spend your life with Max or Emo. Are you saying you'd rather them to never have exsisted because they are/were mutts?



It also seems you've been bitten many, many times as a child.

What are you talking about? I've only been bitten twice and even then never hard. Once by my uncle's friends golden retriever who was fine with me until he freaked out at the large crowd from the party at their house and once by the beagle my dad used to own that bit everyone,not just me. Twice is not many,many times. Also, I was really young when I was bit both times, like 6 or younger. I haven't been biten by another dog since.

Both dogs were obviously healthy. Breeders don't breed dogs with known health problems. All dogs can contract diseases. You're just a bit more likely to know exactly what's expected in a purebred, at least.

He died of old age,but in his old age, he had stomach cancer. That was admittedly my dad's fault though for giving him too much table food. I didn't live with my dad because my mom and dad were divorced and I only saw him every other weekend so there wasn't much I could do about that. It depends on the breeder. The lab my mom and dad got to surpise my sister and I with for Christmas when I was around 4 I think was from a breeder and he ended up developing a severe thyroid problem that the medicine stopped working on and that made my mom eventually have to put him to sleep(my mom and dad were already divorced by this time. It was only a couple of years after we got the dog that they divorced. I was pretty young when it happened.)



None of those reasons are valid reasons to dump your pet at a shelter. If it's sick and it's just going to suffer, euthanize it.

Some people don't believe in euthanasia though.We euthanized our lab,but there are other people that would have tried to give him to a shelter.

Breed bans require you to find a new home for the dog within a certain period of time outside the affected area, or they will take it and kill it. They don't dump them in shelters, because it would be ILLEGAL for anyone to adopt them.

At the sanctuary I used to volunteer at, we had two wolfdogs that this guy had moved over and over again with them into unaffected areas only for a ban to later be enacted in that area. He really loved the dogs and wanted to keep them,but the bans were just so un-predictable that he decided to give them to the sanctuary where he knew they'd be exempted from bans. Of course, that was wolfdogs,but the same thing could happen with normal domestic breeds like pitbulls as well and they aren't really sanctuaries for domestic dogs.

And if you want to adopt or buy a dog, you should do a home visit to see if it's going to get along with everyone, not just bring it home and hope for the best and then return it if it doesn't "work out".

An animal shelter or pet store isn't going to let you take their dog home with you to test it out. A breeder maybe,but even then,it's not likely as you could steal the puppy and never bring it back or pay them.

COMPANIONSHIP. IT IS A PURPOSE. Also, it's Chihuahuas. Your dog book should have that in it.

You just said earlier that Bulldogs lost their purpose because they were bred to be companion dogs,but now you are saying companionship is a purpose? Anyway, companionship isn't something that has to be specifically bred for. Any dog, mutt or purebred, can make a good companion. And yes all 5 of my dog breed books have Chichuas in them,but I'm sitting at the computer and can't look up how to spell the word everytime I want to type it as my dog books are too big and bulky to fit on my computer desk and Chichua isn't exactly the easiest word to remember how to spell with all those "h" s in it.


If we stopped breeding them altogether right this second, it would only take approximately 8 years for the youngest generation to no longer be able to breed. Then they would be extinct. It doesn't matter how many they are because they're all within the same age range. Saying it would take a long time for them to die out if we stopped breeding them to "thin their numbers" would eventually result in us having one entire generation of senior dogs who wouldn't be able to breed anymore. Their generations don't last as long as ours do.

8 years is a pretty long time for an animal to be around if none are bred.

Also, why should we stop breeding them? Because they're not as good as mutts, which there are millions more of than pures? How about we stop breeding mutts for no reason instead?

I never said that we should stop breeding purebreds. My point was why is it ok to breed purebreds,but mutts aren't allowed to be bred? How about we keep breeding both as long as the people who breed them are responsible? There are responsible and irresponsible breeders of both purebreds and designers dogs aka mutts.

Maybe because a Lab puppy is cheaper than a Standard Poodle puppy? They produce larger litters? Thee y're easier to groom and therefore easier to care for as a person who can't easily do those things themselves?

The grooming makes sense.I wasn't aware of the price differences or larger litter thing though.

This is actually the exact reason I dislike all Doodle breeds. People DO get them because they're cute. Then when they're called "hypoallergenic" and "easy going" by the breeders (who apparently never tell their buyers that these dogs need brushed thoroughly every day), people think they don't need to be groomed or trained for anything. Then they come to my grooming salon, with a severely matted undercoat EVERY TIME, and with no training to speak of, they go completely BERSERK when we try to groom them. We have multiple Doodles that come to our salon, and they're all a complete pain to groom. I've never seen one used as a service dog. And I used to train service dogs.

That's true with most doodle breeds,but you are comparing the labradoodles to things like yorkypoos. That's like comparing apple and oranges. Yes, most poodle cross dogs are just created to be cute,but the larger breed designer dogs like labradoodles were often created with a purpose. They were founded in Australia to be seeing eye dogs there.

I work with dogs. Every single day. Labs are by far the worst breed I have ever worked with in the grooming salon. The bite the most, they're the most commonly neurotic, and they're the most stubborn dog breed that I have ever encountered. Once they're set in their ways there is no changing their mind. Yes they're trainable and can be desensitized to scary things. But they also have free will. A trained service dog screaming, jumping around and trying to bite someone just because they don't like their feet touched is a choice.

You really need to learn more before coming to a thread and pretending like you know everything.

Did you miss in my post before where I said I used to own a purebred lab as well as the fact my dad owns a lab mix? I grew up with both of these dogs,so I'm pretty sure I know what labs are like. Dogs will react differenly to strangers than their owners,especially in scary settings of something they don't like or have never experienced before. So, you can't really compared how a dog acts at the groomers to how they act at home anymore than you can compare how a dog acts at the vet to how well-behaved they are at home. Also,the everyday labrador is not necessarily service dog quality. The pups have be picked from the litter to see if they have the right traits naturally and then they have to be trained and desensitized to things.

I don't get it. I go in a thread with stuff I read from reference books and people tell me to shut up because that's not real experience, so I can't know what I'm talking about. But then I go in and I have actually owned an animal or worked with one before and people still tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and to shut up. What? Do I have to be a biologist who studies animal behavior for a living now to know what I'm talking about? I've owned various dogs growing up all my life and known people who owned dogs all my life that I've interacted with and even helped them look after as well. Just because I haven't specifically worked in a job setting with dogs like at a groomers or as a service dog trainer doesn't mean that I don't know anything about dogs. There's such a thing as experience that doesn't have to do with work.

I don't get why you're defending people wanting to breed mutts just to make more dogs now. You initially said that you didn't think that guy breeding his dog was a good idea. Then you just turned around and started defending it in the same post. The guy's dog is still alive, so "coping" with the loss of his dog is not what he was doing it for. He wanted to breed it just because. If everyone started breeding look-alike dogs because they loved their dog so much, we would be overrun with strays and abandonments.

It's not helping anyone. It's actually hurting all homeless dogs around the world by making more competition for finding a good home. Even if all the puppies in a litter are given to a home, those people could have simply gone to a shelter and gotten a puppy, or if they wanted a specific breed, bought a puppy that they had to wait for on a waiting list, and consequentially not get one if there aren't enough in the litter. If you buy a purebred dog there's slim chance you're going to dump it. People also tend to do much more research in preparation of bringing a dog into their home before purchasing a purebred.

If people were more responsible, spayed and neutered their pets and stopped needlessly breeding them, this wouldn't be an argument.

I was just playing devil's advocate,trying to get you to see it from the point of view of this guy and other people like him and to explain what they might be thinking. People don't always do research on purebred dogs. That's why breed specific rescues exsist.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:34 pm

Pet limits are supposedly due to wanting to stop hoarders, not breeders. They actually almost always allow for the limit only on animals past a certain age to allow for breeders. In reality it limits the number of homes because some people can properly care for more than the limit and not neglect them. It prohibits a lot of rescues and fostering from those areas due to limits too.

I've never been to or known of a city shelter that would let you just take a dog for a day to try it out for a visit. Though when I adopted Quasi he had been bought by a lady before and returned an hour later, so you could adopt and return after a day "trying them out".

A seeing eye dog has to behave well everywhere, not just at home but no matter the breed they work with them from the day they were born to be good in all situations and many are flunked out for issues like the feet thing if it pops up and they can't get past it.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby Juska » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:01 pm

If you really were playing "Devil's Advocate", you would have said so, and not be defending it to the death, and you wouldn't feel offended when we give our opinions in return.

You seem to act like a know-it-all sometimes. That's why people chastise you for your replies. You've done it in several threads. You also change your story or blame your misconceptions on "I didn't notice that", "I forgot" or "I wasn't thinking" when people correct you. It doesn't seem that you don't do as much research as you say you do. Also, no one has ever called you stupid or told you to shut up. You're not a victim. Mods will step in if things get personal on this board, and they haven't. If you think what you're about to post is going to create sparks with other members, try to re-think your wording before posting it.

If you're sitting in front of a computer, there's no excuse for you not to spell something correctly. Your computer has spell check in it, yes? If you misspell "Chihuahua" you should at least be able to right click on it and correct it. Or use Google. Simple critical thinking skills.

I have met a number of dogs of specific breed, and I can make an educated observation of that breed's general temperament based on it. Labs are typically strong-willed. From personal experience, with at least a year's worth of working in a grooming salon with a large number of Labs, I can say that with a degree of knowledge. I am aware every dog is an individual and not all are that way. But they can't escape their inner workings.

I've worked with, trained (since I was 7 years old) and groomed more dogs than you've probably met in your entire life. I know and recognize behavior patterns. I just have more experience than you do with dogs. My job title is literally "Pet Care Specialist", though I don't consider myself an expert on anything. I'm not bragging. But just because you've watched lots of documentaries and simply owned a few dogs doesn't make you an expert either. Part of the learning process and perfecting an art or school of knowledge is being humble.

To be clear, I don't dislike you. You obviously think that canines rock ;), you like anime and are very passionate about animals in general. I'm just trying to give you some advice on making your posts more tactful and try and help you express your feelings better. I hope this comes off as helpful and not like I'm trying to be mean or scold you.

I think everything that's able to be said about this topic has been said, so I'm going to discontinue. We could argue both sides all day and probably not come to an agreement.

To TG: A lot of the shelters in my area encourage bringing your other pets to visit at the shelter when choosing a pet. The PSPCA where I got Emo from typically only has 15-20 dogs at a time, so there's room and time for things like that. They really want the dogs to stay in their new homes, especially since most of them are pitties.

When I mentioned home visits I was referring to buying a puppy from a breeder or adopting from a breed-specific or a smaller, well-funded rescue (like the ones that want a background check and to inspect your home before you can adopt anything)...though I don't particularly like how those places are run most of the time icon_confused.gif

Those pet limit rules are supposedly in effect for the trailer court across the road from me, because they don't own the land they live on...but we know they have many animals that they should not have. They stole a rooster from a neighboring farm when one got loose in the flood, and they keep it caged on their property. Cops don't do much about animal crimes out here.

I also don't know what happened to the service dog that freaked out for his nails. We haven't seen him come in since, and that was a couple months ago. They didn't say if he was fully certified or not.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:20 pm

I also don't know what happened to the service dog that freaked out for his nails. We haven't seen him come in since, and that was a couple months ago. They didn't say if he was fully certified or not.


That's the thing with service dogs. Legally they don't need certified. So people can train them at home. This can be both good and bad. The store owners can refuse a "service animal" if it is disruptive, badly behaved, or any accommodations for it would be unreasonable(a full sized seeing eye horse in a small store or something).

Generally though the guide dogs are trained through well established programs like "seeing eye" that raise them just for that purpose and then do get certification. Some states also do offer certification, which makes things easier but is not allowed to be legally required by the federal law.

So it's possible that one was a not so well home trained service dog.

On the shelters, bringing your pets in sounds good, kinda, but mine having come from shelters would be terrified the whole time there. A really nice one with a living room like waiting room to visit or something might go better. The shelters in CA didn't even care though. They were literally first come first serve and you could sign a waiting list for a dog a couple hours before opening on the day it comes up to prove you were first. The paper work I signed just had me declare I had permission from the home owner to have the pet if renting.

I can see doing home visits with rescues. There have also been some places that had rent a pet for a day. So you could see if that species/breed would be good for your family but they didn't catch on.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby Juska » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:27 pm

It's awful how shelters, big and small, are run sometimes. The big ones don't care enough, and the small ones care a little too much...and both prevent dogs from being adopted like they should.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby RabbleFox » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:44 pm

Huh. I always thought the breeder contracts were binding. :shrug: But then again I am pretty trusting of people and those documents look pretty official. So what of the contract you have to sign when adopting a puppy to say you will neuter him? Are those basically the same thing? In my area it is more common to have a discount or refund of some amount of money once you neuter the pup. However, I have also read on a few rescue sites that you need to sign a contract. You learn something new everyday!
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby Juska » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:54 pm

When I adopted Emo, they gave me a $75 voucher to get her spayed at our vet if we got it done within two weeks of adopting her. A good, positive reinforcement of spaying and neutering. The voucher simply expires after two weeks and you can't have it done. She also came with a micro chip.
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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby sarajeku » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:29 pm

RabbleFox wrote: However, I have also read on a few rescue sites that you need to sign a contract. You learn something new everyday!


When I rescued Echo, I signed a contract saying I would bring him back to the refuge if I didn't want him or otherwise couldn't keep him, and I would have him neutered by the time he was 6 months old. Not that it really mattered. I planned to have him neutered anyway.

We do home visits for regular adopters, but since all of his brothers and sisters were adopted by long time volunteers (as in, we've been around for years) none of us needed home visits, or those lengthy questionnaires because:
1) a few of us work the actual rescue, so we actually decide who gets a puppy, so we'd be deciding against each other. And if we turned each other down, it'd be unprofessional. Unless there's good reason.
and 2) everyone who has been around for ages knows each other and has been to each other's homes before. Questionnaire and home check void.

Those of us working in rescue already have strong opinions on neutering, so there was really no need to sign the spay/neuter contract.
But I didn't want the new volunteers who HAVEN'T seen so many animals need to be pulled from terrible home situations or filthy, overcrowded shelters because the workers are afraid of the "full wolf" (AKA the husky).. the ones who would have wanted to breed a pup like Echo because they want a dog "just like him".. to get all butthurt and whine "but you got special treatment because you adopted THAT puppy with no neuter contract!" So I signed the contract, whether it was useful or not. Even though I already planned to neuter him this month.

/end rambling.

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Re: Goberain ( Siberian Husky + Golden retriever mix) breede

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:37 pm

Yeah same thing the most they could do is breach of contract but if no penalty is stated for what happens if you don't follow through and neuter they can't really do anything. If the contract has a penalty for not following through then the judge could award them that amount from you, if the penalty is supposed to be the dog back the judge doesn't actually order property to change hands but instead could have you pay the amount. But they rarely ever go to court and even then rarely ever enforced. So they really are just a good intimidation tool as most people will do what they agreed to in the contract.

The Ellen case was highly publicized. She signed to only give the dog back to the rescue but gave it to a friend instead. They showed up and took the dog from her friend but they didn't have any legal right to do so. If the friend had said no it would have gone to court instead, but it never did, and the most the judge could have done was money not force the dog to be given back though they could have chosen to give back rather than pay the fee and settle it if a fee for breach was awarded, there's no forcing property to change hands though.

So in short usually not written to be enforceable
They can't just take the dog back against your will no matter what you signed, it was sold to you.
If it does go to court the worst that can happen is fees.

Edit: even so I don;t advise signing something you don't plan to abide by, it's just not right, but that's the facts.

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