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Struggling to understand my mistake

Information on Breeders, brokers, and other dealers

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Danie
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Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:08 am
Location: Scotland

Struggling to understand my mistake

Postby Danie » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:52 am

Hello!

My name is Dannie...

I've tried other forums, classifieds, preloved ect...
I've only come across two fox breeders in the whole of the UK who were willing to give me the time of day till I started asking them questions about the foxes and their care before handing over any money, after which they both turned very nasty and unwilling to speak with me.

I was wondering if you would be able to tell me if any of the following questions are bad?
I'v been a follower of Sybils Den for a while now but I still don't understand if it was possibly something I've said to offend them.

The questions I asked were...
What was the date of birth?
Have they had any jags yet?
Have they been chipped?
Are they registered at a vets surgery already?
What are they being weened onto?
What are the parents fed?
Have they been pulled or otherwise socialised with humans during their upbringing?
How long have you been breeding?
Can I see the papers of the parents?
Were the parents screened/hipscored ect before breeding?

I didn't just bombard either of them with all of these questions but it did seem the more I asked of the parent foxes especially the more hostile they became, and this was the case of two completely separate breeders :(

It's my dream to one day have a Silver fox, but that dream seems so far away with recent events.
I'm unsure what to do or how to proceed, I don't understand what it is I've done wrong.

Hoping someone can help me understand my mistake(s),
Dannie
3 cats, 1 parrotlet, 2 bearded dragons, 1 frog eyed gecko, 1 brookes king snake, a marine tank and some big dreams!
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pat
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Re: Struggling to understand my mistake

Postby pat » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:31 am

Dannie,

I can understand your frustration. I think some or all sometimes gets bombarded with questions.
it can be frustrating for them, especially when there are a lot of people asking questions or pretending they are
going to buy a fox. This time of year, many breeders get pretty busy with their foxes, and the last thing they want is
curious people asking questions without any intentions of buying from them.

I personally don't see much wrong with your questions, but, look at their side :shrug:

elina lives in the UK and sells foxes. I know she takes excellent care of them.

I will try and answer some of your questions.


What was the date of birth?
most foxes are generally born march-april

Have they had any jags yet?
don't understand that question.

Have they been chipped?
as far as I know, most breeders don't have them chipped.

Are they registered at a vets surgery already?
doubtful, in the U.S, most don't if any. not sure about the U.K

What are they being weened onto?
probably a kitten formula.

What are the parents fed?
everyone has their own preference. some will be dog food, some might be cooked or raw meat.

Have they been pulled or otherwise socialised with humans during their upbringing?
this is a very important question. most do. you want one that has been socialized.

How long have you been breeding?
good question, but, some might see that as being too personal.
however, some can just tell you what you want to hear.

Can I see the papers of the parents?
many breeders don't let the buyer see the parents. depending on their set up.
they don''t want curious people just to see their foxes.
they also have to be careful of AR people.

Were the parents screened/hipscored ect before breed
not sure what you mean..


my answers were only based on a guess. I am sure other members here can
help with your questions.

the only thing I ask, is to make sure you completely understand the proper care and what to expect
of a fox. it sounds like you are thinking ahead, which is good. also, make sure a fox is legal in your area.
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

http://sybilsden.com Sybils Den
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: Struggling to understand my mistake

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:49 pm

Danie wrote:Can I see the papers of the parents?
Were the parents screened/hipscored ect before breeding?


These are dog questions. You are not buying a dog. These questions do not apply to foxes. I would stop talking to you too though I'd try to be nice about it. You should know a lot about foxes before buying one and this shows that you don't. Some of your other questions are really dog questions too but these are more exclusively so.
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Ash
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Re: Struggling to understand my mistake

Postby Ash » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:29 pm

I typed out a long response, but my computer decided to turn off! So I'll answer again, but my answers won't be as good this time. ;)

As has been said by others, most of these questions are dog questions. Not fox questions. It makes it sound like you think foxes are like dogs. I don't know how much research you've done, but from the questions you ask, it would sound like not enough.

I'll go through your questions and hopefully let you know why this may have turned off a fox breeder.

What was the date of birth?

This is obvious. Foxes are only born in the springtime, once per year. If you were asking what age the parents were bred, that is a dog question. When a fox is ready, it's ready. No need to wait several years if it can get pregnant in its first year.

Have they had any jags yet?

Are "jags" shots? Most people with exotics really limit the vet care their animals receive--this is best. Vet visits stress out an exotic. If you're asking about the parents, I can see why this might offend a breeder. They might think, "of course they've had their shots; what kind of a breeder do you think I am?" That being said, they may wait much longer in between shots so that the fox has minimal vet care--which is what is preferred with exotics.

Have they been chipped?

This is a dog question. There is almost no reason to chip a fox unless state or province mandates it.

Are they registered at a vets surgery already?

I don't know why this question is important. Maybe things are different in the UK, but when you bring your kit home in the US, you choose your vet.

What are they being weened onto?

Good question.

What are the parents fed?

This may lead them to believe you don't know what to feed a fox. You should have diet already planned and ready before you bring your fox home.

Have they been pulled or otherwise socialised with humans during their upbringing?

If this is a question about the parents, then there is no need to ask it. Breeder foxes lots of times are mother-raised and hands-off, which makes them better breeders. If you're asking about the kits, then this is a great, important question. HOWEVER, I'd like to note that while this question is not offensive in the US at all, it is pretty taboo to ask about bottle-feeding in the UK. Many people are highly against it, which is stupid, because it's necessary. Many breeders in the UK don't tell their buyers that the animal they're buying is bottle-raised because it offends many people. This is dumb, of course. Elina bottle-feeds; she's smart like that. ;)

How long have you been breeding?

Fair question.

Can I see the papers of the parents?

This is strictly a dog question.

Were the parents screened/hipscored ect before breeding?

This is strictly a dog question.

I hope that helps. :)

The overall impression I would receive if I were the breeder in this situation and someone were asking me these questions, was that you are not ready for a fox. It would seem to me that you would not have done nearly enough research. HOWEVER, I think it's silly and pointless for someone to get nasty or mean just because someone is asking questions. I think either a polite "I think you need to do more research before I sell you a kit, contact me next year" would have sufficed.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, salamander, 3 tarantulas
Nicophorus
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Re: Struggling to understand my mistake

Postby Nicophorus » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:02 pm

There is a problem in this community (the animal community) of curious people taking up a bit too much of breeders time. I myself had a situation just last week, a nice lady called me about buying some of my goats. She wanted to talk and talk and talk about all things goat. Eventually I had to find a excuse to get off the phone. She called back another day saying she was coming over at a specific date and was being a specific number of kids, oh and she wanted to talk more about goats.

Then the night before she was supposed to come over, she calls with this story of a life change/etc and could not get the goats now.

Afterwards I was saying to myself "stop being so nice, try to keep people on track and specific to the transaction at hand".

And I don't get many calls, I can imagine a big time exotic breeder gets TONS of these kinds of calls and I'm sure it gets old fast, or even if not "old fast" it takes up a bigger portion of their day then is practical.

Moral of the story: chat about foxes at great length here on sybils, and be focused and specific with a breeders time.
hhix
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Re: Struggling to understand my mistake

Postby hhix » Thu May 22, 2014 4:03 pm

When people email me about my dog's litters, these questions would be totally understandable but if someone sent me a list of questions that don't apple to dogs (which, I have gotten!) I don't even reply to the email or take it seriously whatsoever. Best try and do your research, and if others have purchased pups from the breeder your are contacting (or just find on here they're legit) keep it to the simple stuff that apply to foxes ;) But I understand you want to be thorough.

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