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Aardwolf

Anteaters, Armadillos, Aardvarks, Tenrec, Aardwolf, ect

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Re: Aardwolf

Postby Ash » Wed May 22, 2013 3:44 pm

I actually found out that you can order termites online! I'm so excited!

I also found this guy:
Termite Farmer

With one of his old ads:
Spring has sprung and the shipping is easy. Starting today (Sunday) through Easter Sunday we are selling termites for "order 4000 receive 5000".
This includes a Tip\Care sheet to maximize their use, shipping, live arrival and over count.
If desired we will split the order as requested and ship to 2 addresses for the additional postage of $6.
Our termites are $18.95 per 1000 with free shipping on orders over 2000, shipping usually runs $6 dollars.
Simply send requirements to termite.farmer@comcast.net and payment to Paypal same address and we will ship them out early next week.
If you would like a copy of out Tip\Care sheet to see how these feeders work shoot me an e-mail and I will return the attachment.
Thanks for considering our feeders.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?177006-Termites-Spring-Sale
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed May 22, 2013 8:19 pm

That's expensive but cheaper than I've seen termites in the past. I order my ants on aliexpress. They have black ants and red&black ants(these are most favored and and don't sting, they are dried but I swear the black ones still sting somehow). They also sell ant eggs which Pua loves best, from a fresh nest anyway, but are twice as expensive. She will often just eat the eggs and babies from a nest then move on. It's safe to assume they have less calcium in them than adults, though less fiber too.

The insect I've found with the most similar nutritional content to ants and termites is silkworms. I used to buy silkworm pupae pellets online in 2 pound packages. Sometimes koi places may have it but make sure it's pure and not a food mix. Can still buy it in smaller packages from England but it's more that way than it was from my old source. They do sell silkworm pupae and pellets on alibaba but you literally need to buy in bulk. Might work out okay for feeding to a larger animal. I am considering doing that later this year maybe then can sell some of it online like my old source used to so other exotics can benefit. I have trouble imagining how much space that will take up. I can ask the seller though.

Crickets should be okay if you don't gut load them. I found a study on them before comparing their calium content and ratio changes based on how much gut feeding they got. They are nice and high in iron. It's been awhile since I've looked at all my research but tamandua diet is very high in iron. I think mostly from the ants though rather than termites.

I would think it better to give them some insects than not even if it's not perfect. Just look up the nutritional values of the insects and you can help figure it into the diet. You may be able to cut back in Ca somewhere else to allow for a little more in the insects. I do think some variety helps long as you don't go too far. In the wild the content of the insects they eat will vary based on environmental factors, like what the termites are eating and what kind of stressors they are under. So feeding some varriety of insects can be good. Since I haven't been able to get silkworm for awhile I've varied some to try and make up for it this time was mealworms and thinking shrimp next time.

Dried river shrimp and dried fresh water shrimp can be good as they are basically the insects of the water, nice and high in protein with a similar exoskeleton to insects. Not sure on Calcium content. It can be hard to find that kind of info.

Actually I just drifted off and found some reasonable silkworm pupae on aliexpress both powder and whole, they didn't used to have any. Now I'm gonna go order some in ace it goes away.
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu May 23, 2013 3:28 pm

Oh I forgot before but you should raise cockroaches! They are super expensive to buy so I haven't done it yet but the idea is you buy a few then raise them and it's free food and easier to raise than other insects. I have been too chicken to try also It would probably take a lot of space to raise enough and I don't have a space warm enough ATM where the anteaters couldn't get to them and break it, lol.

But here's why. Termites and cockroaches are basically the same critters. Roaches are basically just a different species of termite they are that close. Pua even found and ate some wood roaches once, cockroaches that eat rotten wood. There are several species of roach you can buy to raise. I would go for a smaller softer bodied species myself and one that doesn't climb to avoid escapes, some climb some don't. By feeding roaches you are basically feeding termites and will be real cheap since you will be raising them yourself.
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu May 23, 2013 4:20 pm

I just wrote this email to someone about tamandua diet and think it could be helpful here too.

(asked how I came up with the diet)
Science and a lot of work, mostly math. I started with the study that listed the nutritional analysis of the stomach contents of wild tamandua. I then combined ingredients on paper and added up their nutritional analysis till I got something closely matching. There is also another study documenting how detrimental too much retinol and calcium is in their diet, feeding the insectivore diet is actually unhealthy in the long run because of this. Spinal changes happen in as little as a month when getting too much retinol and the calcium to phos level being to high makes it worse. You wont see mobility problems at just a month but years down the line you may have to let them go early because of the spine fusing together. My diet is within the safe levels recommended by that study on both. Pua's blood levels that I had tested during a check up also match with healthy levels found in the study.

The beef diet has proven to be very healthy. Many a tamandua who had issues like going on and off food, up and down in weight and things like that have turned around once on it. A friend who has many tamandua never had a baby till she started using the beef diet, then she was having too many babies. They are capable of getting pregnant again very shortly after birth. So she had to start separating mothers to give them breaks.

Are you giving anything for vitamin K? Most people who use kibble use it mixed with leafeater biscuits for the K and extra fiber but you only mentioned the one. The natural K(in the beef diet from thyme or spinach) seems to be superior to getting it in supplement form.

I like the silkworm best because they are very nutritionally similar to ants. Adding them to the diet does not change the values at all because it's already at basically perfect values. Another great feeder if you have the space is feeder cockroaches. Roaches are so closely related to termites that they are really just different species of termites. There are even wood roaches that eat wood like termites. Pua loves roaches. Most you can buy will be pretty big for their little mouths so you may need to grind them up but they are great food. The thing is they are expensive so you need to buy some and raise them but if you have the space they are easy and cheap in the long run.

Crickets are good if you grind them up well. They have pretty tough exoskeletons otherwise. When you do not gut feed or just gut feed them a little but not much or for long then their cal to phos ratio is about right for tamandua. I would have to dig it up but there was a study comparing the cal to phos in crickets fed various diets for various lengths.

My guys are not real fond of meal worms but I got some dry to mix in there food sometimes. The cal phos levels are not as good but they are okay occasionally. They are actually lower in cal and higher in phos than tamandua wild diet. In their case if raising yourself gut loading for higher cal would help. The low cal worms would also help if feeding a diet too high in cal already.

Pua loves most any sort of soft bodied grubs or beetle larvae but most of those we find wild around here in the woods when we get lucky. For some reason she was not interested in wax worms though Ori liked them when she was here.

The ideal to be a main part of the diet is silkworm pupae or adult worms but pupae is cheapest unless you raise your own then you still need silkworm food and roaches are tied at first. Silkworm are close in value to ants with the cal phos and iron levels. Roaches are about the same as feeding termites. The tamandua diet should be 4:1 phos/cal roaches are about 2/5 phos/cal(based on american roaches) there's still not a whole lot of info on their nutritional content of various roaches. But 2/5 is still very close to ideal and there is actually a bit of wiggle room.

Then low-gut loaded crickets.

Variety of lots of different kinds of insects can help even out the cal/phos out since some are high and some low.

Here's a basic guide on insect levels but like I pointed out at the start with another study on how much cricket vary based on diet they all can for the same reason
http://nagonline.net/Technical%20Papers ... DIFIED.pdf

Fresh water or river shrimp can be good too for mixed in food but they wont likely want them as treats.
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby Ash » Thu May 23, 2013 4:28 pm

Ooh! That's so exciting! Roaches would be way cheaper than the termites and I'm not grossed out by them (I think they're cute). I never knew they were so similar to termites. That's very interesting, and I never would have guessed that. Thank-you so much for letting me know. I will definitely raise them. I'll have to look at the different species though and see which ones work best. I know lots of people raise the dubia cockroaches for their reptiles, but I don't know if they're hard or not. I'll definitely have to look into that. :)

Last night I was looking at some of the abstracts in the scientific articles you posted and I was so excited. I think you're only allowed to purchase the article for 24 hours though, so I don't want to do that until I have a lot of time to sit down and read. But there were some really good ones that I'm planning on looking at Sunday that went over the stomach contents and also analyzed their feces.

Thank-you! You've been so helpful. I've really been stressing about the diet, but I'm feeling very confident now and am even excited to sit down and come up with something.

It occurred to me that the wildlife committee will have no clue what aardwolves even are. So I should probably write a description with lots of facts and information and bring pictures with me. I'm really wanting to make it over to Ohio so that I can have an aardwolf encounter at the Cincinnati Zoo this summer, but I have no idea how I would take off work. We'll see though.
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu May 23, 2013 4:40 pm

Last night I was looking at some of the abstracts in the scientific articles you posted and I was so excited. I think you're only allowed to purchase the article for 24 hours though, so I don't want to do that until I have a lot of time to sit down and read. But there were some really good ones that I'm planning on looking at Sunday that went over the stomach contents and also analyzed their feces.


Maybe that depends on the site but when I bought one I just downloaded it and could keep the file maybe the download link just works for one day? I have a contact now that works in a lab so has access to all the research articles and I just let her know what I want and most of the time she can get it to me for free instead. She just gets it under her company's subscription :) So I tend to forget about that pay part sometimes. It's still the best way to find info.

One thing to try is copy the study's title and authors and google it regular and on a rare occasion if you look deep enough a site somewhere will have it for free.
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby Ash » Fri May 31, 2013 11:33 pm

Okay, so I went ahead and paid for some articles. I'm super excited to read them and start coming up with a diet. I couldn't find an article on the nutritional content of trinervitermes bettonianus (the primary termite they eat) so I looked up one that talked about the nutritional contents of termites and ants in a general sense. Perhaps in my next search I'll be able to find one that's more specific to the species.

Wish me luck! :mrgreen:
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby veralidaine » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:01 am

Hey Ash, sorry I've missed those last few articles but if you want to give me your email in a pm as well as some articles you want, I can get them for you for free
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby Ash » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:48 pm

veralidaine wrote:Hey Ash, sorry I've missed those last few articles but if you want to give me your email in a pm as well as some articles you want, I can get them for you for free


Thank-you for the offer, that's very sweet of you. I really, really appreciate that.

But I do have to admit I'm a stickler for the rules, lol. So even though people probably think it's crazy, I'd prefer to pay the 35 dollars for each article than break the rules and get them for free. I know it sounds dumb, but when it comes to copyright and things like that, I really try to stick to the rules.

I'll admit I am keeping the articles longer than the 24-hour time limit, but my excuse for that is for educational purposes. If I get taken to court, that's the argument I'll have. I legitimately think that this is a good argument for educational purposes, despite it not being an official college/school setting.

But thank-you anyway. That was a very nice offer. *hug*
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:09 pm

I still think you are misinterpreting something. Generally they have it set up so that you can download it for 24hrs. That means the link will no longer be good to download it after 24 hours but you can still keep it to read anytime you want since you paid for it but sharing it technically against the rules.

Personally I have a contact that can get me articles too and don't mind using it. Her company pays for the subscriptions and she helps me to help expand tamandua knowledge to help others. I do not share the articles again however as I do not know if they can trace that and maybe get her into trouble. I understand your not wanting to though.
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby Ash » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:25 pm

Actually, I just reread the terms and conditions, and you're right. Once I pay for it, I can keep it. The 24-hour access part was just how long it would be available on the site. Thanks for clearing that up. ;) I'm glad that's the case.
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby Ash » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:29 pm

I'm working on the diet, and it definitely seems like all of the dirt that aardwolves ingest does just pass right through--so they don't get any nutritional content from it. From what I have read, it sounds like they have adapted to push large amounts of dust, dirt, etc. through their systems pretty fast. And when they go, I guess it is a LOT and a decent percentage of their body weight. One aardwolf that was observed, the researches estimated, lost 8% of its body weight in one defecation. I don't know how accurate that could be, especially since it was purely an estimate based on the average weight of female (so the actually female aardwolf observed was not actually weighed). But it sounds like all of the extra stuff they lick up definitely just goes right on through.

Info from "The Aardwolf (proteles cristatus Sparrman) as Predator of Termites" conducted by H. Kruuk and W. A. Sands.
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby Ash » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:12 pm

What is ash content? Is that referring to minerals, like calcium, phosphorous, etc.?
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:41 pm

Ash is everything left behind after burning, so literally ash but before burning it's not. It is mostly mineral content since most everything else does burn away.
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Re: Aardwolf

Postby Ash » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Thank-you. I'll have to see if I can figure out more about termite nutritional values. There isn't any study done on the termite aardwolves eat. I saw the one study with the South American termites and tamanduas, but the nutritional levels in those termites were all so varied; it makes me wonder if it would even help to try to base an aardwolf diet off of those termites.

You've talked about that study before, about the termites and tamandua stomach contents. How did you decide which termite species to help base your diet off of since they're all so different? Or did you take averages?
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