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Interesting Coyote Colors

Canines not listed on other forums: African Wild Dogs, Coyotes, Dingoes, Jackals, New Guinea Singing Dogs, Raccoon DOGS, ETC..

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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:22 pm

It's not albino at all it's leucistic. Separate genes than albino with a similar out come.
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby Lasergrl » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:20 pm

the black and tan could be pure. The red ones and blonde ones most certainly are because that is a very common mutation, they are probably the same gene just different expression (more red, less red in the agouti pattern). In that I mean there are many many trapped a year. the white mark is less common but is a mutation that comes about from time to time.
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby caninesrock » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:14 pm

@Lasergirl: I didn't know blonde and red were common colors. Thanks for the info. ^^
@TG: But it has a pink nose and lips and is pure white. Leucistic usually still have markings on them,but lighter colored and their noses and lips aren't pink from no pigmentation.
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby Lasergrl » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:23 pm

Here is an interesting color

Image
Image

a couple of others

Image

Image

heres one thats supposed to be a coydog

Image
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:42 pm

caninesrock wrote:@TG: But it has a pink nose and lips and is pure white. Leucistic usually still have markings on them,but lighter colored and their noses and lips aren't pink from no pigmentation.


I was replying to your last posts about doubting the blond color.
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby sarajeku » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:47 pm

caninesrock wrote:@TG: But it has a pink nose and lips and is pure white. Leucistic usually still have markings on them,but lighter colored and their noses and lips aren't pink from no pigmentation.


Leucistic doesn't ALWAYS have to have markings. In sugar gliders, leucistics look almost identical to albinos, except for their eyes. The only difference between leu and albino is the leu has black (or "normal") eyes and the albino has red eyes. Another variation (which has a darker color red eyes) shows the golden coat color, and another also different variant that shows a diluted, pale coat color, but that also isn't a leucistic.

I'm doing links instead of photos since this is a coyote thread and I don't want to hijack it with sugar glider pictures.
Leucistic
http://www.petsugargliders.com/images/colors/candace06240611.jpg
Albino
http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp146/SugarGlider-Please/Albino%20Sugars/DSC00150.jpg
Cremino (golden)
http://www.sugargliders.com.mx/fotos/ColorCreme-ino.jpg
Platinum (dilute)
http://i.oodleimg.com/item/2831209857u_2x424x360f_small_&_furry_animals_in_lino_lakes_mn/?1322886721
Image
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:01 pm

Hmm now (OT) I wonder if the albino Tamandua is maybe a stronger Leucistic tamandua. Pua is a Leucistic, normal vest is gone and a lighter golden coat than normal, almost white some seasons.

The albino tamandua has a very golden coat but pink skin, deep red eyes and white nails. I'm not sure if the golden is just from skin film staining it or maybe is like the golden Leucistic gliders, hmm. Pua's fur becomes much richer gold when she gets wet and her skin film stains it. So that complicates judging color on one that hasn't been kept in domestic comfort.

There's so much variety in Leucistic animals.
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby Lasergrl » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:14 pm

maybe its more like a creamino?
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:24 pm

Lasergrl wrote:maybe its more like a creamino?


Yeah that's what I was thinking once it was mentioned. The fur will for sure lighten up but I kind of doubt it would ever be white. The photos are big and good quality and I don't see signs of white. Would be a very light blond like Pua but with red eyes, pink skin, and white claws. Looks very pretty that way anyway.
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby Ash » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:20 am

TamanduaGirl wrote:
Lasergrl wrote:maybe its more like a creamino?


Yeah that's what I was thinking once it was mentioned. The fur will for sure lighten up but I kind of doubt it would ever be white. The photos are big and good quality and I don't see signs of white. Would be a very light blond like Pua but with red eyes, pink skin, and white claws. Looks very pretty that way anyway.


If it has the red/pink eyes though, wouldn't that automatically make it albino anyway?
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:30 am

Ash wrote:If it has the red/pink eyes though, wouldn't that automatically make it albino anyway?


Red eyes do not mean albinism even all white and red eyes does not always mean albinism. Sometimes things get called albino due to red eyes when they aren't

For example the first ball python is actually the leucistic one and the second albino. The albino still has yellow marking. Leucism effects all pigment.
http://www.burmesepythonforums.com/show ... p?tid=5187

It can get confusing but no a true albino would be totally devoid of any dark pigment(black brown gray). Red eyes just indicate a lack of pigment in the eyes. The creamino gliders have red eyes but have light brown markings. http://pics.hoobly.com/full/2N5CTU2H9TBV.jpg

Red-eyed leucistic cobra
http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-m ... cobra.aspx
Similar to the gliders it's got a spot of pigment on it's head.

A yellow/orange/light color is often associated with leucism but you can have albino and still have yellow or orange pigment as it's not effected by albinism. So I've been thinking wrong about her myself. To get an all white tamandua you may need a fully leucistic one(no pigments instead of lessened pigments) or a leucistic and albino in one critter. So yeah the anteater could still be albino and have gold fur. Without a closer look it's hard to say for sure. She is currently a very dark gold so could have some tan making it a darker gold(so would be leucistic) or it may be just stained and it would wash/wear out eventually and be a lighter blond like Pua(then be albino, yellow fur no dark pigments). Pua was very dark at first too, with her wild stained hair.

So yeah could be either. It doesn't help that she's wet in the photos.

Edit: after very close inspection she is very leucistic. She has a few light freckles on her snout. It's hard to tell since she is dirty and wet but they are in the skin and not on the skin. The freckles shine from being wet like the rest of the skin. So there is a chance her fur could be white clean but could also stay a golden too. Can't be 100% but I'm pretty positive they are freckles she appears to have some on her tail but it's much less clear so could just be dirt there.
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby Ash » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:01 pm

That's interesting. I always thought the red eyes meant it had to be albino--regardless of what other colors it had on its body. I didn't know that something could have red eyes and NOT be albino.

So how can you tell if something is albino or if it just has red eyes?

Thanks. I learn something new every day on here.
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:37 pm

It can be hard to tell. If you know the species it helps. Does the species normally have any yellow or orange pigment? If so and it's white/red eye and no yellow or orange than it's not albino. Albino would leave behind the yellow and orange. That can be tricky unless they have been bred a lot. You wouldn't really think yellow when looking at normal python colors but once you breed an albino one you see lots of yellow.

Tamandua seem to all carry yellow tones in their fur so it's clear to me after thinking it over to get white you'd need leucism.

Now the cremino gliders have to be leucistic since the spots they do have left appear to be brown, and albino would remove the dark tones like brown, same with the cobra and the brown spot on it's head.

This guide on fish leucistic vs albino is interest but confuses things a bit more at the end
http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home/o ... tinos.html
Xanthochromism (abnormal/extra yellow) people almost never use that word the opposite being Erythrism(extra red). Xanthochromism can easily be confused with leucism without knowing the species colors well.
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby Ash » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:09 pm

That link was very interesting.

So in short I'll use some extreme examples to clarify what I understand:

A black animal with red eyes would NOT be albino since the melanin would need to be absent in order for it to be albino. So this would just be an example of an animal with unnaturally-colored eyes.

A white animal with red eyes may or may not be albino:

a) If the animal typically has yellow or orange colors, and it retains the yellow or orange with the red eyes it is albino.

b) If the animal typically has yellow or orange colors, but it does NOT retain the yellow or orange (and it may or may not have red eyes) it is leucistic.

So since the "albino" tamandua does not retain any yellows or oranges (which are typical colors in the species) it is actually a leucistic that happens to have red eyes?
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Re: Interesting Coyote Colors

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:21 pm

Yep that's right.

A white furred tamandua would be leucistic.

The one for sale, she does have yellow/gold fur, though somewhat up in the air as their skin film can stain fur yellow/orangy/gold. If it washes out white later she would be leucistic.

There are so many sources that list white with patches of pigments as leucistic it's hard to shake that thinking but it's not right. Still trying to completely force the old thinking from my head of the "common knowledge" that if it's got pigments it's leucistic and only all white is albino.

I was using the old thinking that anything with dark pigments wasn't albino but it's actually possible to be partly albino(patches lacking melanin). So she would be albino(with the golden fur) but not 100% albino because she appears to have some freckles of darker pigment though still not as dark as normal but hardly any so she is near total.

Albino is "characterized by the complete or partial absence of pigment in the skin, hair and eyes due to absence or defect of an enzyme involved in the production of melanin." Wiki but it's right this time ;)

So peibald could be either partly albino or partly leucistic depending on the status of the yellow pigments.

So redoing that the Cremino is most likely albino but not fully due to the dark pigment. The cobra pictured would be leucistic as it shows no orange or yellow and other albino photos of cobra do have. It's hard to say if the species do not normally have yellow/orange pigments to be left behind when albino if albino or leucistic but I guess if they naturally lack yellow then they could legitimately be called either..

Edit: I guess you could say the black with red eyes has albino eyes and the rest normal but since they would only be like 1% or less albino you'd probably just stick with your weird description.

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