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Dog breed help

All Breed of Dogs

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Nevlaar
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Dog breed help

Postby Nevlaar » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:40 pm

I need some help finding a dog breed, because I don't know much about breeds. :shrug: If it fits these qualifications, please tell me:
Intelligent (I'll be teaching it chores.)
Loyal (Won't sell me for a cookie)
Big
Won't run off every chance it gets
Not flat or droopy faced

If you manage to find a dog that fits the bill, A: You're really good at this; and B: Thanks!
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caninesrock
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby caninesrock » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:52 pm

German Shepherd maybe? I'm not sure about the running off thing, but they are intelligent, loyal, big, and don't have flat or droopy-faces.

My boxer that I used to own was also intelligent and loyal, but she had a smushed face so I don't think a boxers what your looking for as far as looks. She was also more medium than big.
Last edited by caninesrock on Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby Nevlaar » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:59 pm

Yeah, looks aren't that much of a problem. Boxers are good as are german shepherds.
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby caninesrock » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:01 pm

Also, forgot to ask. What are you planning on getting the dog for? Like for example, livestock protection, herding, agility work, guard dog, etc., or just as a pet? All these factors are things to consider as well with a breed.

Also, what other kinds of animals do you have if any? Some breeds of dog are better with small animals than others.

For example, generally, though, there may be a few exceptions, huskies are not a good breed to get if you have small animals, cats, etc. Then, I wouldn't exactly consider huskies a breed that fit your obedience quality anyway though. They can be trained, but its harder because they are very independent.
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby Nevlaar » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:29 am

Herd protection. I wouldn't even consider huskies, they run off too much.
And I have various animals, i.e. chickens, rabbits, stuff like that.
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby Nevlaar » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:30 am

And maybe a fox, just in case she escapes her incosure.
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby caninesrock » Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:46 pm

In that case, I'm inclined to say never mind on the Boxer. I don't know if its the norm for the breed or not, but my Boxer was not good with small animals. She was really good and gentle with people and got along alright with medium and large dogs, but she had a couple of incidents where she almost mauled small dogs (though all were broken up in time before anyone got seriously hurt) and one time she tried to bring a dead bird into the house that I'm still not entirely sure if she found it already dead or killed it. Then, not a live animal, but I had one of those "breathing" puppy stuffed animals that had a motor of some sort in it that made it look like it was breathing and she tore it to shreds.
Also, as mentioned, she was more on the medium-sized end in size than the large size, so I don't think she would be able to take larger predators. She might have been able to stand up to fox or coyotes, but probably not things like wolves or cougars. There's also the matter that Boxers weren't bred to be livestock protection dogs. They're guard dogs for humans, but not for animals.

German Shepherds MIGHT work, but today they mostly do police and military work despite originating from herding dog stock such as the Old German Herding Dogs(which are landraces more than true breeds). You might want to look into lines of German Shepherd that are specifically still bred for the herding rather than current working lines which are mostly bred for police and military work though. My aunt's German Shepherd gets along ok with all her cats and her dachshund, so I wouldn't think prey drive would be much of a problem, but individual dogs can be all different, so it depends. They are also quite large dogs that can take on large predators. As a plus, they can also herd. And they rank number 3 on dog breed intelligence tests, behind only Border Collies (which are number 1) and Poodles(which are number 2).

German Shepherds were bred specifically for their intelligence,[14] a trait for which they are now famous.[6] In the book The Intelligence of Dogs, author Stanley Coren ranked the breed third for intelligence, behind Border Collies and Poodles.[15][16] He found that they had the ability to learn simple tasks after only five repetitions and obeyed the first command given 95% of the time.[6] Coupled with their strength, this trait makes the breed desirable as police, guard and search and rescue dogs, as they are able to quickly learn various tasks and interpret instructions better than other large breeds.[17]



German Shepherds are moderately active dogs and are described in breed standards as self-assured.[11] The breed is marked by a willingness to learn and an eagerness to have a purpose. They are curious, which makes them excellent guard dogs and suitable for search missions. They can become over-protective of their family and territory, especially if not socialized correctly. They are not inclined to become immediate friends with strangers.[18] German Shepherds are highly intelligent and obedient.[19]



German Shepherds are still used for herding and tending sheep grazing in meadows next to gardens and crop fields. They are expected to patrol the boundaries to keep sheep from trespassing and damaging the crops. In Germany and other places these skills are tested in utility dog trials also known as HGH (Herdengebrauchshund) herding utility dog trials


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Shepherd




As far as dogs specifically bred for livestock protection and still used for it today, the first breed that comes to mind is a Great Pyrenees. They are huge dogs, bond with "their" animals so aren't likely to run off and leave them behind unless chasing a predator away, and can easily take on both small and large predators. Unlike some other breeds of livestock protection dogs, they can also be more friendly towards humans and less territorial, so less human-aggressive. They are more strictly protection dogs, though, so don't do much herding if you also want a dog capable of herding. They are also not ranked very high on the doggie intelligence list, so there's that. They ranked 64th for breed intelligence.

In nature, the Great Pyrenees is confident, gentle (especially with children), and affectionate. While territorial and protective of its flock or family when necessary, its general demeanor is of composure and patience and loyalty. It is a strong willed, independent and reserved breed. It is also attentive, quite fearless and loyal to its duties. The Great Pyrenees' size makes it an imposing guardian. A dog of this breed will patrol its perimeter and may wander away if left off its leash in an unenclosed space. The Great Pyrenees protects its flock by barking, and being nocturnal, tends to bark at night unless trained against such behavior.[8]

The Great Pyrenees can be slow to learn new commands, slow to obey, and somewhat stubborn to train. For this reason the breed is ranked #64 (out of 79 ranks covering 131 breeds) in Stanley Coren's The Intelligence of Dogs. Despite this relative stubbornness, it is quite unusual for the Great Pyrenees to become aggressive or turn on its master. It is wary of strangers if the person is not allowed in the house, but will settle down if the owner of the dog seems comfortable with the stranger. This dog was originally bred to be a livestock guard dog, and can still be found doing that job on farms and ranches.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyrenees

Here's a huge list of herding dogs from wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Herding_dogs


And here's a list of livestock protection dogs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... _guardians

Be warned that both lists contain breeds from various countries, so some rarer breeds may not be found in the United States, however.
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby Juska » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:52 am

Guardian breeds are for large animals mainly, like goats, sheep, etc. For breeds like the Sarplaninac it's not recommended to allow them near chickens or other really small animals. Like just about any other dog breed honestly. I'd never leave my dog alone with chickens or rabbits. A fence, coop or hutch would protect your small animals better than having a dog outside all the time. Is there any other reason you want a dog besides that?
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:16 pm

Anatolian shepherd. A neighbor had one briefly. Wonderful dogs. He kept getting out but treated my snarky chihuahuas like they were puppies and was great with their kids. That sort of behavior is typical of the breed.

PS my dogs were brats to big dogs because they had both been attacked by big dogs in the past. They started out fine with them.
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby pat » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:50 pm

TG,
never heard of Anatolian shepherd.

I was going to say "aussie dogs"

personally, I raised coonhounds over the years, they are good at protecting smaller animals, however, they need to be trained to not kill them.
was not really hard. mine are fine with the chickens. coonhounds will also keep any predator out off the property.

no matter what dog you get, they will need to be trained. the hard part is training them to stay on the property.
electric fence does the trick though. I have my property fenced in. I use to have electric fence prior to that, and that kept them in.
might even help keeping larger predators out. :shrug:
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:30 pm

Yeah killing small critters like chickens can be a common problem with dogs even the livestock guardian breeds, got to train that part.

I'd love an Anatolian shepherd but as shown with my neighbor small yards aren't ideal for them since they were bred to roam long distances with their flock. A really secure yard and lots of long walks could make it okay though. They are real smart but bred to be able to think for themselves so training can take some extra work as they can think they know better than you so choose not to listen.

This is interesting for me really as I'd like to upgrade in size for my next dog but am not set on a breed yet but similar things wanted. Good with my exotics and offer some protection but I'm getting some of the things I wanted in small form now from Beaker, long walks, exploring the woods and wading in the river and creeks, a more doggy dog :) So I'm in no rush to add a second.

I really really love the vizslas but they may be too much energy for me in reality :( For sure not a fit for Nevlaar's requirements.

Anatolian with a fawn
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby caninesrock » Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:18 pm

Seconding TG on the fact that Anatolian Shepherds are also good. They have some at the zoo here. They used them to raise the cheetah cubs (which are now full-grown cheetahs) because Anatolians help with cheetah conservation in Africa by providing a non-lethal form of livestock protection from cheetahs.

Image

Also, apparently, they can be trained to guard chickens. Like others have said, you can't trust them with chickens without training them first though. It'd probably be best to get a pup and raise him/her up with the chickens, so he/she learns that the chickens are family and not food.

Image

Image

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And here's a really helpful article on how to train them to protect chickens:
Anatolian Shepherds have been used as guardians for a wide range of hoofstock and birds, including (but not limited to) sheep, goats, horses, cattle, llamas, ostriches, chickens, ducks, pheasants, and turkeys. The bonding process of pup or adult dog to the stock is important with all species; however, some of the smaller types of fowls are at a disadvantage due to their smaller size and relative fragility. While pups are often penned with or near some of the larger animals while they learn appropriate behavior, even a very young puppy can damage or kill a chicken in the mildest of play interactions. That is why it is important to set the parameters of behavior quickly and firmly in dogs intended as poultry guardians. The limits of appropriate and inappropriate behavior should be set under close supervision, so that you can train your dog to be the flock guardian you want him to be.
I have used Anatolian Shepherds to guard my flock of poultry for 13 years, and am now on my second generation of guards. My first six dogs were all raised from puppyhood directly with my flock and can serve as guards if need be, but as we have since relocated to a property where the fowls are no longer kept near the house, only a pair of dogs live with the flock full-time. My newest stock guard was not kept full-time with birds until she was 18 months old. The following is a description of the circumstances in which my dogs are used.


More info at this link:
http://www.anatoliandog.org/poultry.htm

Also, I just looked up German Shepherds and chickens. There have been cases where they've got along ok with chickens, but also cases where they've killed chickens. The general opinion seems to be that it depends on the individual dog and its prey drive rather than the breed.

Here's some links that talk about people's different experiences with their German Shepherds and Chickens:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ge ... ckens.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ge ... ckens.html

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/82717 ... compatible

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/45544 ... hickens/20
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby Juska » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:26 pm

German Shepherds are a herding breed which means they have prey drive. They move the herd, they don't guard it.

Guardian breeds are protectors, not herders, and though they usually do not have an innate prey drive like a herding dog would (chasing after animals and killing them if they run, etc.), they are also not easily trained. Not for a beginner or casual dog owner. Yes, you may encounter ones that seem calm and collected but they are very hard headed and their instincts to bark and guard things they consider "theirs" are not easily broken. Especially females, they are typically incessant barkers and are not good for any sort of urban area with lots of neighbors, definitely not to be left alone outside in that environment. The males are more laid back typically but they will still bark and protect their things. And just about any breeder you speak to will not sell you a puppy without a large, high-fenced yard.
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby Nevlaar » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:42 pm

Thanks guys for the suggestions. I wouldn't have a problem with training, but leaving the property could be a problem. Iv'e developed a system with a dog called a "Kooikerhondje" to help keep the animals in, but they LOVE to wander off, and once they get out, they don't listen to a word you say. They also wouldn't protect the animals, and would run away from danger.
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Re: Dog breed help

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:23 pm

Probably the best for not wandering would be a clingy breed and raise it very hands on so they wont want to go far from home due to not wanting to be far from you.

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