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benny is sick, any ideas?

Health, Medical or behavior problems with all animals.

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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby pat » Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:56 am

tg,
my neighbor has a horse trailer. but, we have not way of towing, they would have to.
it is pretty big, I think an overkill. I can see if I can rent something.
the problem is, getting him out.the way their enclosure is set up, the doors are not real wide, well wide enough to get benny thru easily. we have a double door gate we can get him thru, but, it is far away from benny's house.
I have to seperate sybil when if I need to transport benny.

the other issue, is the cost. there is no way I can afford to have this done. I might try the gofundme thing.
I hate to do this, but, my concern is benny right now. I have to wait and see what the cost is going to be.
on another note, if it is cancer, there is nothing that can be done. :icon-frown:


minervasden,
no benny did not get the aspiration yet. the vet messed up on the date :roll: it was suppose to be this wednesday,
but, he called and said, oops, I meant next wednesday (june 10) I just want to get this over with so I know whats wrong.

the tumor looks kind of weird, it almost looks like there are small veins running thru it, is this normal?
he has no fur on the tumor. :shrug:

benny has good and bad days. he usually stays in his house, he eats, but, not alot. I was happy and surprised to see him out in the enclosure for awhile though. first time he did that in awhile.
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:01 pm

Veins into it raise the chance it could be cancer but doesn't make it for sure. I had a couple benign tumors on my lip when younger. When I chewed on them I could feel the veins into it throbbing. But, I believe, usually benign tumors don't have as strong a blood supply as cancerous ones. But if it is benign then if you can find a way to remove it it would surely make him feel batter as it's robbing his body of blood and nutrients.
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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby pat » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:46 pm

TG,

I was concerned more when I seen the veins. I wondered if that is cancer.
however, as you mentioned, a non-cancer tumor would also make him sick.

as I said, he has good days and bad days. when larry had liver cancer,
he was the same way "good days and bad days" :cry:

this is torture for me waiting to get the results. I just want to know.
I am expecting the worse. but hoping for the better.
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby pat » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:10 pm

vet was here yesterday for benny. (what a fiasco)
prior to the vets visit, I was given 3 pills to sedate him.
(yea right) :roll: did nothing at all. it must of only gave him a different type of feeling.
which seem to upset him. when the vet got here, he end up trying to knock him out.
he gave a whole bottle and then some of penanol (sp) it slowed him down somewhat,
but, he never closed his eyes and was still too alert. I was really hoping the vet could have looked at benny more in depth. the vet managed to aspirate the tumor.
the vet is pretty sure it is a fatty tumor. which is good. but, there is still something wrong with him. benny has lost alot of weight, especially after he come out of hibernation.
he hardly eats. (which is not like him) he probably lost close to 200lbs since last year.

if the vet could have knocked him out, he may of been able to pull blood for test.

at first, I thought the tumor might of been pressing on his stomach that makes him feel full :shrug: but, being a fatty tumor, I doubt that.
I won't have the test results till the beginning of next week.

I am clueless what could be wrong. if the vet couldn't completely sedate him, I will not know what is wrong.

could it be diabetes? other type of cancer? blood pressure issues?
basically, what would cause him to lose his appetite?

I want to thank Ana and her friends again that donated to my vet. I so much appreciate that.
that money should cover most the farm visit and test.
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby Ana » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:27 pm

I am so relieved to hear that it was aspirated! Please let us know as soon as you get the
results. If it's going to be exorbitant (and it usually is), we should have as much time to
fundraise as possible. You hang in there, I know you've been under so much stress. :(

*hugs*
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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:46 pm

Unfortunately you need a blood test to even have a clue. With only weight loss and lethargy to go on it really could be anything. Of course the most common causes are definite possibilities, liver, kidney, cancer, diabetes. But it could just as easily be an infection or even something like he has arthritis and the pain makes him not want to move or eat much. I know I don't feel much like eating when in pain. Oh and of course test for worms, that's always a possibility.

The only other thing that might help find what is going on(besides blood test) and not be as hard to do it a pee sample. There are testing strips they can dip in the pee to check for thinks like keynotes and glucose from diabetes and some things that can give a clue about liver and kidney but it's not near as accurate as a blood test and some are time sensitive. I have glucose/keytone ones for Pua. It needs to be dipped in the pee within a short time of the pee coming out and you need to read it at a specific time from dippage as it's based on color and that can keep changing. The vet may have a better way of testing it though. Worth discussing.

Otherwise he's going to have to read up on how to properly sedate a bear so that he can get blood. That's still the best way but the pee might give you a bit of a clue in the mean time.
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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby pat » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:23 am

ana,

thank you so much for your support, really means a lot to me.
I called the vet this morning. told them I want to see this bill.
they told me it was over 500.00 :shock:
I got so mad, I told her I want to talk the vet. which to my surprise, he was there.
he got on the phone and I told him how upset I was over this bill.
only to do part of an aspiration. he tried telling me he charged me what he would an employee :roll: he basically said, he could not charge me any less, and couldn't eat
the charges. I told him, it was not my fault, benny didn't go under like he should have.
also told him, if gary was to do something not correct on a motorcycle, he would wave the bill or at least some of it.

the fact that benny was under a lot of stress from this whole ordeal, really upset me and gary. benny's blood pressure dropped badly during this ordeal and he was trying to throw up and sounded like he was choking.

vet now says to wait for the test results and see if there anything on that.
well, I personally don't see what it will show.
vet also said, because of his age, he was afraid to give him too much.
anyway, there is more to the conversation, will try and mention later. right now, I have tons of other things to do. thank you again for your support and funding.

TG,

thank you for the info you provided. the pee test will be hard to do. I guess the only way to know for sure is a blood test and an examine. but, since the vet couldnt get him to go under, I don't see that happening. I am going to call my local zoo and see who their vet is now. also going to call the game commission and try and get some info on what they used to put the wild bears under. as I told my vet, the GC does this all the time. vet told me,
he was concerned about his age (13 years old) but, the GC don't know how old a wild bear is until they trap and put them under. my game officer told me they can tell the age by the
tooth behind their left canine. (I found that interesting)

again, I so much appreciate your help with this.
actually, I am always bragging about you. I will never forget when you took your time to research raccoons proper blood level and posted the correct blood levels.. my vet obviously didn't know what they were. thank again for that and your help with all my animals that I had problems with.
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:39 pm

I'm glad I can help in some way. With domestics vets will normally run blood work on elderly pets to check that sedation is going to be safe before doing it so his discomfort is understood. You often don't get that luxury with exotics though since many need sedated to get blood. It does raise the risks especially since you know there's a problem but the only other choice is to do nothing. Hopefully you can get the help of a zoo or wildlife vet. Zoo vets normally can't or wont work outside the zoo but I've heard of some exceptions so maybe you'll get lucky or they can refer you or at the very least share info with your vet.
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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby pat » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:13 pm

TG,

I was going to make some calls today about benny's situation. but, got side tracked with a bunch of other stuff. (more drama in my life icon_confused.gif )

will call around and see what I can find. I thought of antibotics, but, not knowing what is wrong will make it hard to know which to give him. he could still have cancer :shrug:

not sure what all a aspiration will tell. I am not very hopeful on that.

thank again for your help and support..
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:44 pm

The aspiration will just say what type of tumor/mass it is. Cancer or not and the type. The lab techs are trained to look at the cells and know the type. It would also say if it were an infected lump like an abscess. It wont tell anything about what's going on in his body, just what's going on with the lump.
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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby pat » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:09 am

TG,

I figured the tumor aspiration is limited to what it will show.
according to the vet, he speculated a fatty tumor.

actually, benny seems to be doing a little better the last couple days.
he has been coming out of his house more. I know the heat don't help.
but, his appetite has still decreased. gary got him some fish the other day,
and he devoured that. I tried giving him some chicken, but, didn't seem to want much of it.

going to try and get more fish for him.
I was also wondering if he could have an infection from a broken tooth.
(he has had that for awhile) I thought of giving him some antibiotics.
I can get some at the farm store. do you think it would hurt if I gave him some either way.
I understand there are different type of antibiotics, but, I was thinking of penicillin from the farm store. what are you thoughts on that? don't think it can hurt.
I will wait till I get the results of the tumor first though.

when I get a chance, I will scan and show you the vet bill.
I need to look up some of this stuff to see what it all is.
the vet did tell gary that the injections he had on the truck were for smaller animals :shrug:

thank you again for your help.
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:07 am

When my old dog Goldie got tooth infections she'd get a swelling under her eye from an abscess. A broken tooth if infected is likely to abscess thought it could be causing pain as it degrades before then. The best thing for dental infections is Amoxicillin. Can you look in his mouth and see if there's any redness or signs of infection and bad teeth? Sometimes if it's not an infections antibiotics can make it worse since they effect the digestion and can ruin appetite.
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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby pat » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:22 am

TG,
he don't look like he has swelling. hard to tell though.

updates: after over 500.00 Benny's tumor is a fatty tumor. but, it sure looks like it is growing.
however, he is getting worse icon-sad he is hardly eating and very inactive.

I figured I would try some antibotics, got some "amphcilian" from the vet.
I told him, I wanted to try that in case he has an infection. he gets 10 a day :roll:
we mix it in hot dog or fish, and he will eat that. only been a few days.
personally, I think it is something pretty major. maybe cancer :shrug:

the vet visit was a nightmare. first, I gave benny some sedatives to keep him calm for when the vet comes.
however, that put him in weird state of mind. (actually, his mood was something I never seen before)
(he was always very docile). then when the vet got here, he had some stuff on his truck to knock him out for awhile.
that made it even worse. he never went under after over a bottle of injections. benny was so distressed.
gary had to give him a couple of the injections because of benny's mood change. (which nothing worked)
vet gave him one, maybe two injections. finally, the vet was able to sneak up on benny and do the aspiration.
he couldn't do the second one. vet was afraid (don't blame him) benny's blood pressure dropped very low, so vet had to give benny a reversal (even though benny never went under)

what I am upset over, gary planned on giving benny the aspiration. at that time, vet said, no, there is a certain way it has to be done. then after I disputed the bill. vet told me, he was afraid gary would get bit. so which is it :roll:

the only thing the vet did was the aspiration, the reversal and maybe two injections. gary gave benny a couple injections.
the vet was here for a couple hours waiting for benny to go under (which never happened) vet used what was on his truck, which was mostly for smaller animals. one bottle was already opened.

I attached the bill. (thank God Ana and some of her friends donated for benny) but, the vet is still charging me more than
what the credit was there Benny.

I talked to my game officer the day before the vet was here. I asked him how they sedate the wild bears, he said with a dart gun and they go down quick. why didn't my vet call them. :roll:

Now, if Benny gets to the point where he will need put down, I have no idea what to do. icon-sad
Guess I can call the zoo (like you suggested) and the game commission and see if I can get some answers.
it's hard to find a vet who will treat black bears. icon-sad
I was really hoping the vet could have got benny under so he could have examined him icon-sad

anyway, I attached the bill, see what you and the other members think.

thank you again for your help and being here for me. that means a lot to me.
Attachments
vet-bill.pdf
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Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:01 pm

The only thing that seems high is the needle charge but maybe it's due to the size of the needle. You do have to pay even for him to just stand around as it's time he could be making money with other patents if he weren't. It would be nice if he gave a discount on the professional time though, since he wasn't very professional in not learning how to sedate a bear before hand. But if you rock the boat too much you could wind up with no vet if you can't find anyone else.
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Re: benny is sick, any ideas?

Postby minervasden » Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:14 pm

The needle cost may not be unreasonable http://www.shopmedvet.com/product/super-core-biopsy-needle-14g-x-9cm/jorgensen-products-syringes-and-needles

I've heard that the Cleveland Zoo here in Ohio is/was a good bear zoo. Perhaps you can speak with someone there.
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