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Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

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Sparttan117
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Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

Postby Sparttan117 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:16 pm

I read somewhere that Raboral V-RG is an FDA Approved oral vaccine for rabies in raccoons and coyotes, but according to their website (http://www.raboral.com), it is only available to public health officials. It is said that these officials are supposed to distribute the Raboral packets where raccoons are going to come across them. However, I was wondering if it might be possible to request that these officials might buy some of the packets for me (with compensation if necessary). It would technically be a matter of public health because a pet raccoon would come into contact with people frequently, making it more important for the animal to not have rabies than for a wild raccoon. Does anyone think that this will work?

Note: I don't have a raccoon yet because my parents intend to sell the house that we live in within the next year and move into an apartment in Chicago, but they have agreed to allow me to have one once we live in an apartment that is okay with pets. The reason they don't want a raccoon in the house while trying to sell it is because they are worried that it might have a strong smell. Could anyone confirm or deny whether or not raccoons have a noticeable smell.
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Re: Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

Postby FrayWolf » Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:39 pm

I just wanted to pop in and say I'm in love with your username
He was only a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes.
But I have made him my friend, and now he is unique to all the world... ❤︎
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Re: Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

Postby Ash » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:46 pm

Their poo reeks. Definitely not the best idea to get one in the house you're trying to sell (they're also super destructive), but Chicago bans wild animals as pets and an apartment is no place for a raccoon. Moving into an apartment is a huge downside to owning any pet, let alone an exotic. Sorry, but if you do move there, you will not be able to own a raccoon. :( Maybe talk to your parents and see if you guys could move outside Chicago? I know it's a long shot, but worth trying.

Also, please be over 18 before you buy any exotic pet. If you are under 18, I guarantee your parents will 9/10 be unhappy with the animal except if they are pushing for it to (and by pushing for it, I mean they would get one whether your wanted one or not). There are SO MANY raccoons being rehomed I was told that if I applied for a permit as an educational facility here in Utah I'd get one. Remember, a raccoon, like any animal, is a pet for life and they can't be rehomed easily. Your goal should be to keep your raccoon until the day it dies.

I don't know your age since you didn't specify, but sadly I don't think you are in the right place for a raccoon at this point in time. Again, I don't know your situation like you do, but an apartment in an illegal city is no place for a raccoon...
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Re: Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:33 pm

I agree a person should not get a raccoon unless they own their own home. Landlords are not cool with this sort of thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DfGf4M3QZo
And it's cruel to crate a raccoon like you would a dog or something.

I found this on the first question though. http://www.raboral.com/SiteCollectionDo ... 6-13r2.pdf
In April 1997, the USDA granted license to RABORAL V-RG for oral rabies vaccination (ORV) in raccoons. Its utility for controlling rabies in European red foxes was well established.


This is different than FDA approval(which some sites claim but it does not have) which would mean it had been proven in a lab to prevent rabies in the species. The USDA license just allows them to use it in the wild for raccoons because they have seen anecdotally that it seems to help since rabies cases in the area go down when used. We tend to see that as proof but FDA does not. You need like 1,000 raccoons or some number I forget and give them the vaccine then inject them all with rabies and then only if none get it will it be approved. The vaccine has not had this testing and does not have the needed FDA approval for the species. The license from FDA does not cover pets only animals living in the wild. Anyone giving the vaccine to a pet raccoon would be breaking the law. The license only allows for special use in the specific situation despite not having proper FDA approval. Like it's illegal but this special license will protect you from punishment for spreading it on wild lands to lower rabies in the area. It's a special exemption in the form of a license for "public good" not actual FDA approval which would allow free use in the species.

TL/DR No it's illegal and not actually approved.
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Re: Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

Postby pat » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:39 pm

I agree with Ash, the last place you want to live is in an apartment with a raccoon. they will get destructive. they will dig in furniture,carpet, open cupboards, even fridges. they need an outdoor enclosure. however, they can be left inside, but not 24/7, especially as an adult.

as for the rabie cakes, then I doubt very much the state will sell them to you. you need a vet for rabies and distemper shots... also it is a must to have them fixed otherwise, expect aggression with most raccoons during breeding season.

Please make sure you have done a lot of research on raccoons, and have a very clear understanding of their behavior.
They can make nice pets, but, again, as long as the owner understands their proper needs and handling them.
and of course in the proper environment.

please don't get one living in an apartment, you will regret it later.
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Re: Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

Postby pat » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:46 pm

Mary,

I seen that video before, made me laugh, but, I doubt the owner found it funny.
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Re: Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:24 pm

Yeah like the time I came back from a quick shower and found Stewie clawing at the wall with Pua sitting by his shoulder cheering him on. He'd made a 2/3 foot hole in the dry wall! Funny, yeah, but I had to fix that mess.
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Re: Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

Postby pat » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:15 pm

TamanduaGirl wrote:Yeah like the time I came back from a quick shower and found Stewie clawing at the wall with Pua sitting by his shoulder cheering him on. He'd made a 2/3 foot hole in the dry wall! Funny, yeah, but I had to fix that mess.


ahh, too bad you didnt get a video of it :lol: maybe Pua was trying to get Stewie in trouble. :lol:
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Re: Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

Postby Sparttan117 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Ash wrote:Chicago bans wild animals as pets

In terms of wild animals being illegal in Chicago, I could easily make the argument that it was hand raised and not wild. Illinois law (especially Chicago) is full of loopholes. I've found the permit that is legally required to own a raccoon in Illinois. The required permit is called the Furbearing Mammal Breeder permit (even if breeding is not the intent of owning the animal), which is just a yearly fee of $25.50. In addition to this, I intend to register the animal as an Emotional Support Animal. Breed/species ordinances do not apply to emotional support animals according to the FHEO Notice: FHEO-2013-01 (Federal Law in US).

Ash wrote:Also, please be over 18 before you buy any exotic pet. If you are under 18, I guarantee your parents will 9/10 be unhappy with the animal except if they are pushing for it to (and by pushing for it, I mean they would get one whether your wanted one or not).

By the time that I plan on getting the animal, it will be a couple months past my 18th (December birthday in senior year of high-school). In addition, my parents are already on board with the idea of me getting a raccoon.

TamanduaGirl wrote:And it's cruel to crate a raccoon like you would a dog or something.

As for leaving the raccoon alone in the apartment or crating it, I don't intend to do either. I've done a good bit of research on emotional support animals, and as long as it doesn't have a history of attacking anyone unprovoked, any animal can be registered to go anywhere.

TamanduaGirl wrote:Anyone giving the vaccine to a pet raccoon would be breaking the law.

I've read through the article provided, and although I agree that you are correct in saying that it is not FDA approved for vaccination in raccoons, I found nothing in the article mentioning regulation of Raboral. I understand that the company policy is to only sell their product to officials who work to ensure public health, but I feel that I could make a strong case to such officials that a pet raccoon would come into far more contact with people than a wild raccoon, making it far more important to vaccinate it than it would be to vaccinate a wild raccoon. From what I've read, public health officials wouldn't be breaking any laws by giving the vaccine bait to a pet raccoon.

pat wrote:Please make sure you have done a lot of research on raccoons, and have a very clear understanding of their behavior.
They can make nice pets, but, again, as long as the owner understands their proper needs and handling them.

I have researched their behavior and care on many websites and I also have experience with animals through a selective volunteer program at the zoo near where I live. I've been told by many sources that I'm surprisingly good at handling and working with animals. As for learning about raccoon specific behavior, I'm looking into contacting someone who owned raccoons themselves who lives in the same town that I do so that I can get advice from someone who personally has experience on the topic.

FrayWolf wrote:I just wanted to pop in and say I'm in love with your username

Thanks! It's actually kind of old, and the reason that it has two Ts in it is because the original account I named Sparttan117 I had to tweak the name on because Spartan with one T was already taken :lol:

Non response info:
According to https://www.animallaw.info/article/faqs ... animals#s4 , “‘[w]hile dogs are the most common type of assistance animal, other animals can also be assistance animals.’ (FHEO Notice: FHEO-2013-01 at page 2). Again, the assistance animal will undergo an individualized assessment to determine whether the assistance animal in question poses a direct threat to the health and safety of others.”

In addition, “A housing provider may only determine if the specific assistance animal in question poses a direct threat to the health and safety of others. This determination of a ‘direct threat’ must be based on ‘individualized assessment that relies on objective evidence about the specific animal's actual conduct.’ (FHEO Notice: FHEO-2013-01 at page 3).” With regards to the individual assessment, for a denial of housing, the burden of proof would be on the accuser. A landlord would have to dig up some sort of proof from an animal's personal history to deny housing.

TL;DR for the non response stuff, if I get a raccoon registered as an emotional support animal, it cannot legally be regarded as a raccoon and would legally have to be regarded as a support animal.
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Re: Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:48 pm

Well good luck then getting the forest ranger to give a dose to your vet off label and against the law. It is against the laws. Was decades ago but remember a rabies clinic getting busted for giving the oral. Since it's off label it wont provide any better protection than a shot, as neither are recognized so wont save the pet for a reported bite or scratch, so why not just get the same shot all other raccoon owners get? There is nothing showing the oral is any more effective than a shot for a raccoon it is just allowed to be used off label for control because it makes a lot more sense and costs a heck of a lot less than catching millions of wild raccoons and injecting them by hand. There is literally zero benefit to getting someone to break the law and give you a dose.


As for housing the issue is "reasonable"
An individual with a disability may have the right to have an animal other than a dog in his or her home if the animal qualifies as a 'reasonable accommodation' that is necessary to afford the individual equal opportunity to use and enjoy a dwelling


A raccoon wont be seen as reasonable when you can get emotional support from a dog instead. None of the laws involved negate local laws either, they just say what the landlord must permit not what the city must. If the city or county bans it the FHA laws do not mean the city/county must let you have it and it would be unreasonable for the landlord to let you have an illegal animal. But even if legal it's still unreasonable to be asked to allow a raccoon.

Even if you somehow did get it to work with housing laws, that is just housing. ADA no longer recognizes anything but dogs and seeing eye horses as service animals because of people claiming all kinds of things as service animals that weren't. The housing authority could very well follow suit if a lot of people start using it to keep raccoons and foxes in apartments claiming "emotional support" and it will be ruined for people who really were benefited by a ferret or something. Housing laws will not make it okay to take them in public. ADA does not recognize exotics as service animals so there is nothing preventing businesses from saying no raccoon in their stores/restaurants ect. They are not housing and housing rules do not apply.

And again none of them force a state/county/city to allow for someone to keep an illegal species just because it emotionally supports them, they don't even when it physically supports them like helping hand monkeys. Those are no longer protected by ADA because of people claiming service wallabies and chickens, pigs and armadillos. But even when exotics were still covered as service animals it never negated any local laws that banned the species. It just regulates what businesses/housing need to accept. It does not magically change the illegal to legal.

I believe the Chicago codes actually say wild or non-domesticated and codes usually have definitions of what they mean as well but I think it's buried in the zoning ordinances. Wont matter much how you interpret it when they show up and confiscate it as they have that power given to them in the codes. Even if you have tons of money and manage to win you probably wont get the animal back. I've seen a few cases won but the animals are never returned for whatever reasons the shelter etc involved chose to come up with, which is sometimes just that they put it down while the challenge was pending.


Are you planning to go to collage and have a career? Because it may not be the best time to get an exotic that will control what you do with the rest of your life and where you can live. At least it will if you care about being legal so you pet isn't seized and killed. I know you really really want one but why not wait till it's actually a good time. A raccoon will not be a good little puppy that lies quietly on the bed all night. It will want to keep you up and play and it will bother you while you are studying/working. And if you work out of the home, no they do not need to let you bring him no matter what you call him or get him registered as.
Sparttan117
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Re: Any thoughts on obtaining Rabora V-RG?

Postby Sparttan117 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:41 pm

[quote="TamanduaGirlAs for housing the issue is "reasonable"
An individual with a disability may have the right to have an animal other than a dog in his or her home if the animal qualifies as a 'reasonable accommodation' that is necessary to afford the individual equal opportunity to use and enjoy a dwelling

A raccoon wont be seen as reasonable when you can get emotional support from a dog instead.[/quote]
Reasonable is defined legally as not taking away the ability of others to enjoy their housing and not causing undue financial stress on a landlord.
As for Chicago banning "wild animals", according to https://www.animallaw.info/article/faqs ... animals#s4:
While HUD does not specifically state anything about local breed bans, it does provide in its notice to housing providers that breed limitations cannot be applied to assistance animals. (FHEO Notice: FHEO-2013-01 at page 3)

and
One court has found that "if the County ordinance were enforced it would violate the FHA by permitting a discriminatory housing practice." See Warren v. Delvista Towers Condo. ass'n, Inc., 49 F. Supp. 3d 1082, 1089 (S.D. Fla. 2014).

Therefore, an emotional support animal isn't subject to local ordinances.
However, I do admit I was wrong about raboral. Thank you for explaining my misunderstanding in terms of its government approval. It seems that obtaining it would be more of a hassle than it would be worth and it wouldn't do more than other options that are far simpler and less legally debatable.

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