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Invisible electric dog fences?

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FoxAdorer817
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Invisible electric dog fences?

Postby FoxAdorer817 » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:14 pm

Ok, I was wondering if anyone had ever tried this for a fox.
Because, to me, it seems like it could be an idea, but I see that something about it "obviously" wouldn't work, but I can't put my finger on exactly won't work about it.

So, I guess my question is: Do you think an electric fence could work for a fox?

Thanks.
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Postby Lasergrl » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:31 pm

electirified netting keeps them away from poultry, and would probably keep them in untill they figured out how to dig under...

The invisible fence probably wouldnt work because foxes like cats do not typically respect pain barriers and would bolt through and then be stuck on the other side. This is a problem with some of the more primitive dog breeds like husky.
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Postby FoxAdorer817 » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:36 pm

Well wouldn't they still get shocked if trying to dig under it?

Ah, alright, that would make sense - I guess that was probably what my friend was talking about when I was mentioning this like 7 months ago when she asked if it would actually work on one like it does on a dog...(and something more, but my memory isn't that great...).

But ok, thanks.
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Postby ruscithil » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:21 am

Please, don't try anything like this on foxes!

They are wild animals and have to be treated as such. How are they supposed to understand why they get an electric shock?
If you want an animal that can learn to stay where it is supposed to be, get a dog that can live up to your expectations (though personally, I would not put an electric collar on a dog, either). Don't make foxes who are such sensitive creatures and who, moreover, are so easily spooked suffer such "training" methods.



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edit: After re-reading Lasergrl's post, I am wondering what your question is. If you want to keep the fox out (of another animal's enclosure), it will work if done properly. But to keep a fox in some kind of invisible enclosure, no way!
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Postby FoxAdorer817 » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:08 pm

Oh, alright, I'm sorry.
See? I Thought there was something wrong with doing so, I just couldn't put my finger on it...
Thanks.

And now it sounds like I was trying to do this to a fox as a bad thing... But that's why I was asking - I am simply just seeking ways to try to give him more room to run around in, and because I know it just wouldn't be possible for me to get a fence with a top and bottom to surround my whole yard, this was the only thing I had come up to yet, so I was just seeing why it wouldn't work, so Now I understand that that just wouldn't be right to do it to a fox because it would just harm him more than help him in various ways...
Sorry.
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Postby ruscithil » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:45 pm

No offence intended, sorry for my harsh tone. The thought of a fox wearing a shock collar just upset me.


Depending on your property, you could put a harness on him and use a cable rope (? don't know if it is the correct term) leash. He wouldn't be able to chew through that and if there aren't too many objects in the area, he wouldn't get tangled up.

I can't do this on our property because there are so many trees and stuff, otherwise I would use that.
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Postby Ragtatter » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:06 pm

Many people seem to think that the jolt of an invisible fence is really quite painful--I've even heard an individual say it's like Nazi torture. This isn't even close to being true. Actually, the shock isn't painful at all. My dog uses an invisible fence, and before I put the collar on her, I put it on myself and walked up to the fence on all fours just to see how painful the shock was. It didn't hurt at all--it more startles you than anything else.

The purpose of the shock isn't to cause pain. It's to get the dogs attention. An aversive "redirect", if you will.

Also, a tone sounds when the dog gets near the fence--it's only if the dog continues to approach too closely that they get the minor jolt. With the proper training, the dog quickly learns to stop going when they hear the tone. Most dogs, once trained, rarely (if ever) get shocked.

Invisible fences aren't cruel or painful--so long as they are used properly and you give your dog the correct training instead of just throwing the collar on them and dumping them in the yard.

For foxes, however, the situation is a little different. Invisible fences are not, and should not be used as, an effective confinement system for a fox.

With dogs, we have thousands of years of experience with training them as a whole, and pretty much have it down to a science which techniques will work most of the time. With any decent invisible fence system, they will include a video showing you step-by-step how to train the dog to respond to it appropriately.

Foxes, on the other hand, are "wired" quite differently than dogs. They don't respond to stimuli and training in the same ways (in fact, I've found that using the techniques I trained my cats with for Gizmo is often more effective than the techniques I used to train my dog.)

One problem I can see is the response to the shock. A dog gets the mild shock, and thinks "Huh? Whazzat? I didn't like that." due to heavy domestication. A fox gets a mild shock and thinks "OH MY GOD SOMETHING JUST HAPPENED AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS!" Although tame, they've still got quite a bit of wildness left in them, and they instinctively are more likely to respond to something novel with fear. I could very easily see a fox responding to the mild zap with panic and running as far and as hard as they can to get away from the "bad thing". Training them to respond to the fence and the tone would be exceedingly difficult.

Not to mention the fact that very clever dogs can figure out ways past the system, and I think that just about any given fox is as smart as a very clever dog. For example, a friend's doberman figured out that if he laid down where he could hear the tone, but not feel the shock, that the collar's battery would wear out and he could escape without being zapped.

I'm not suggesting he reasoned this out. I'm certain it was an accidental discovery. Still, once he had figured out that if he laid there long enough, the "Don't Go Any Farther" tone would stop, and he could escape, it was very difficult to break him of it. And if foxes are masters of anything, it's trial and error, so there's no doubt in my mind that a fox could learn this trick very quickly.

In summary: Save the invisible fencing for your dog; use actual, physical fencing (buried deep to prevent digging and have some means of preventing scaling the top) for your fox.
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Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:16 pm

In most areas you also want a physical fence to keep humans away from your fox, in other areas you will want a physical fence to keep wild animals away.
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Postby ruscithil » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:26 am

So we agree that it is not helpful on foxes :mrgreen:



Ragtatter wrote:The purpose of the shock isn't to cause pain. It's to get the dogs attention. An aversive "redirect", if you will.


Our dog accidentially walked into an electric fence (for sheep) twice. Both times, she didn't go another step but sat there completely confused and terrified and the first time she had to be carried home. In both instances, she was too afraid to continue the walk she usually loves so much.

Now, our dog may be special in that because she was born a stray dog and she experienced a lot of bad things in her youth. Or the shock from the sheep fence may have been stronger and more painful than that of an electric collar.

But I know a dog in my village which actually had burns from his electric collar. It's all a question of properly using such devices, I guess. And probably, not all dogs react the same way.
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Postby dragon_lady » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:38 am

The other side is, if the fox were to stay in, and I agree that it wouldn't, then it would be at the mercy of any dog that came in the yard NOT wearing s shock collar. Since it was ment to keep them in not others out. I would be concerned about its safety. Cindy
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Postby Ragtatter » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:22 am

ruscithil wrote:Now, our dog may be special in that because she was born a stray dog and she experienced a lot of bad things in her youth. Or the shock from the sheep fence may have been stronger and more painful than that of an electric collar.

But I know a dog in my village which actually had burns from his electric collar. It's all a question of properly using such devices, I guess. And probably, not all dogs react the same way.


Okay, first off, there is an enormous difference between invisible fencing, and the electrified fencing they use for livestock. They're not even close to being the same thing, and they don't even operate on the same training principles, so it's really not fair to use that as a comparison.

Livestock fencing operates on the idea of "Shock the animal painfully enough the first few times they brush up against the fence, and they'll avoid it."

Invisible fencing operates on the idea of teaching your dog to stop at a tone, and if they don't stop, the fencing gives a mildly aversive correction. If properly trained to the fencing, most dogs rarely, if ever, get shocked.

And yes, it's true that not all dogs react in the same way to invisible fencing; but if the fence was causing burns, the owners were either using the wrong sort of fencing, or had it turned up ridiculously too high. (Not to mention probably hadn't bothered training the dog how to avoid the shocks in the first place, leading to a "learned helplessness" situation.)

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I also agree with the others that the invisible fencing offers the fox no protection from the outside world at all.
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Re: Invisible electric dog fences?

Postby daiveel19 » Wed May 16, 2018 6:37 am

Hello!

Many people think an invisible underground wireless electric fence is the best way to keep their dog in their yard, but I have some queries about electric dog fence:
Are all invisible fence collars compatible..? How does an invisible dog fence work...?
Please suggest me answer to this question???
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Re: Invisible electric dog fences?

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed May 16, 2018 12:55 pm

Would not suggest using one with a dog and this is the fox forum so would out right say it's irresponsible to use one with a fox.

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