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hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

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hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby H20 Sl » Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:55 pm

Hey, I realized recent that I haven't responded and thanked some of the people who have kindly awnsered my questions, and I'm sorry, I didn't realized that that was accually really rude, so tamudagirl and others, I'm sorry and thank you SO much for the advice and answering my questions, it means alot..

So, I recently put in some hay for Bo's enclosure.. (I have moved it to a blind spot from the road btw..also, whenever he is out, I am out).. but, im not sure if it's just him or what, he always coughs after he drinks and stuff, but he's been almost choking it sounds like.. do you think it's the hay caught in his throat?? I looked, theirs nothing in their, he's good, but is hay recommended in general?

Anyways.. I just wanted to mostly say that, I'm sorry for being rude, I will work on it.. and thank you, you don't know how much I aprecciate it..

Also, I wanted to say in general to people who will get a fox or are thinking about it.. my fox, he's a handful.. no matter how hard I tried, I can not keep him in the house.. I looked at loki the fox and thought, wow, I could keep him indoors.. to be honest, him being in the garage was making him stir crazy, aggressive, moody.. him, out in his enclosure, which, listen, mine was not a big investment, but he is not outdoors all the time either so.. but anyways, always make sure you can do that for thwm.. I thought, is this what I got him for? To keep him cooped up to see him once a day? No.. also.. never get a pet illegally.. you think.. he's just a kit, no one will find out, he's in the house.. but, im in fear everyday.. I've thought long and hard.. I'm not sure what to do.. he is not kept legally and I can not change that. He wI'll not be put down if he's caught, I know for curtain.. I have talked to animal control about it.. but, I know these people, and in the end, if I get a complaint, I will have to physically pick him up, put him in a carrier, and take him away.. I can't even imagine the stress the confusion, the loss he will have when I'm gone just out of the blue.. he needs people, he needs attention. But positive, he's an amazing pet.. I love him to peices, and he's very bonded to me.. he'll lay on my lap, he'll play wit my hair, he'll be goofy, he's SOOO smart, I would NEVER recommend a enclosed pen without a top.. ever, you need a lock, you need heavy duty because.. he is a smart cookie.. but, he's not a dog or a cat, but I will say, he's more like a puppy that does things like a cat. Not the fetch aspect or walks but he's ruff, he'll crouch and his pupils will widen if where playing and then pounce like a cat.. alot of people think he's a cat at first glance lol.. but, he's not independent to me.. I know he's still young, but I see no independence like a cat.. he wants to play lIke a dog, he wants to be arounD me, he wants others to be around him.. he lays by me, it's like a dog almost but no quite.. OH, and he's pee isn't too bad for him.. it's his poop, its like a dog, but with litter mixed in.. it's not bad, but the odor is STRONG STRONG STRONG.. almost ruined the carpets..

Also, are figs bad to give him? I gave him some figs off the fig tree and he loves them.. and avacados? Did not feed him some because I think they are not good for him.. but yeah..
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby H20 Sl » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:00 pm

This is in the wrong section.. oops I'm sorry..

Ah, one more thing.. he likes watee lmao.. I haven't tried the boat yet, but he's really brave and likes my pool, he'll lay their on his leash and stick his paws in and chill lmao.. but smere almost over, I'll maybe try and do the boat this weekend, haven't thought about it recently, but he might like it, he likes the car.. I know he won't like it at first, but he's a brave boy
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:30 pm

You're welcome :)

What kind of hay? It's possible he is having a reaction to the type of hay. But it's more likely to be a reaction to mold. If it ever got wet in the past, sometimes the truckers delivering it don't put tarps on even before you ever got it, it can get mold. It's not normally as obvious as big black spots just maybe a bit darker and powdery than the noneffected parts.

Avocado is actually fine just no peels or pit. Figs are a bit sugary but as a treat now and then that's okay.
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby H20 Sl » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:50 am

Ah, I see.. I did get it as wet hay when the truck came, so maybe I should take that out as its still wet.. Awesome, thanks! I think avacadoes are poisonos to dogs, so i wanted to make sure. oh, and im not sure what kind of hay.. I'll find out
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:15 pm

Just the pit and skin. Is even for dogs. That's why there's that dog food avoderm, full of avocados but they just keep the skin and pit out.
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby H20 Sl » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:29 pm

Ah, I checked up on bo today.. he has a REALLY bad cough his breath was raspy, but that could be me over exasperating.. mmm, so, he's really calm today.. I don't know, I'm propally looking into it WAY too much, but I'm not sure.. I have a pool in his enclosure too.. it's a bit dirty rn, and he's DRINKING AGh, I'm gonna have to clean that.. but he once went in it when it was 60 or so out.. don't know If he's maybe got a cold? Idk, the cough frraked me out..
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:25 pm

I'd get the vet to give his lungs a listen then. It could be a respiratory infection.
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby Ash » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:32 pm

Thank you for honest pet review when it comes to foxes. It gave me a great idea for a new informative post. :) I really hope more people read this post, because it can be an eye opener for many. I am glad you are doing everything you can for your little man and are dedicated to his well-being. Made me feel really happy for you.

I noticed coughing when I first put hay in with my foxes. I think it's because of the dust it throws up in the air. If you soak it once or let it get rained on, you may notice him not coughing as much. When I work around the hay, I always get a cough afterwards, but it's from the dust. That being said, it's important to note that he may have an allergy to the hay, so keep an eye on it and see how he does once the hay is all tramped and wet down. I think that is the problem since it sounds similar to what started happening with my two, but obviously it may not be the case for your guy.

As TG mentioned, could be a respiratory infection. Since you're there and you're his owner, it's up to ya to keep an eye on it and determine what's best. :)

If you're worried about the pool, you can take it out or just not fill it. It's getting colder now, so a fox getting his paws wet in the pool now isn't the same as it would be in the summer time. I took out the pool thing my foxes have a few weeks ago since it stopped being so hot. Now they have their water in bowls like usual. If you have a problem with him getting his water dirty, elevate the bowls. This will make it more level with his mouth and he can't pee in it as easily (a friend down the road with a fox though has a fox that soils their water EVERY TIME despite what she does with the bowls; I think she had to put a cover over the top eventually!).

I'm glad things are working out well for you and Bo. :)))
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby Vata Raven » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:37 pm

Ash wrote:If you have a problem with him getting his water dirty, elevate the bowls. This will make it more level with his mouth and he can't pee in it as easily (a friend down the road with a fox though has a fox that soils their water EVERY TIME despite what she does with the bowls; I think she had to put a cover over the top eventually!).

There might be a work around for this issue. I have been doing the research on it, but have yet to find one I would use yet (just due to looking up other things). There are these watering systems for animals, the system is connected to a water output source; turn them one and the water flows out into the water bowl. There might also be systems that allow you to drain them, like you can with a sink or tub.

I also did see a water nipples that are meant to lager animals, that would be something to consider as well.
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:46 pm

Okay good hay and straw is not dusty. You get small bits of straw flying around but not dust and actual hay aside from alfalfa since leafy and not a gras is never dusty. What happens is if it gets wet during travel or if they bailed it while damp then it molds. You likely wont see any mold just maybe a bit darker spots(brown or light grayish instead of yellow), it's kind of like dry rot, but the mold eats the hay and breaks it down and so "dust" is created from the hay. You can notice this when spreading as you will find spots that break apart and are dusty and more clumpy than the rest of the straw that falls and pulls apart into nice individual pieces of straw that don't crumble.

This is my experience from years working with hay and straw in the petting zoo.

Even if you don't believe the dust to be mold, like maybe it was dirt clumps from the field due to bad bailing or just tons of little bits of straw, dusty hay is known to cause respiratory issues and should not be used with animals.

Also wetting hay vastly increases the risk it will mold and can also cause it to smoulder and even catch fire. The moisture allows bacteria and mold to grow, this "composting" causes heat. The only time we ever wet any hay or straw was the alfalfa hay for the wallabies as they ate it better and it was safer since less pokey(they are prone to gum infections).

You will have less issue with "dust" if you buy actual hay, like grass hay. Or shop around for good quality straw even if more expensive.

Anyway the fact it is getting worse concerns me. So for sure remove the straw/hay for now and if it were me I'd have the vet listen to his lungs to check if the issue is more serious than just nose, throat irritation.
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:46 pm

"Thank you for honest pet review when it comes to foxes. It gave me a great idea for a new informative post."

PS was thinking the same thing when I read it but then just got focused on the problem part.
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby Ash » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:24 pm

That's actually great to know and would explain a lot like why I got sick from it and thought it was allergies. So the bales I got last year must not have been good bales. The farmer did tell me it wasn't grade A hay, but I didn't think it mattered since my animals wouldn't be eating it. I will keep an eye on that for the future and search for better quality ones. Thank you for bringing it up. I'm glad I mentioned it and you corrected. That wouldn't have even crossed my mind as being an issue. Will be buying bales from someplace else this fall.

Since the issue you're having sounds like what happened with mine except WORSE, then I would agree about the visit to the vet's.
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby H20 Sl » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:16 pm

Ah, I'm glad that you found it informational... I really wish I knew this before I got him,, I love him so much so it's hard to think about never getting him.. I don't regret it to an extent, I just REALLY wish it was a different situation..

But yes, I'm gonna set up an appointment today.. the new vet knows of my situation, but she is a regular vet and wants a muzzle on him, which, yeah, that would be great if i could get one on him.. Do you think I could give him a supplement to eat so he'll fall asleep or make him drowsy? He's SO bad at the vet.. I can practice with the muzzle but I know he'll be a spaz.. what do you and your vet do Ash? Or anyone with exotic vet "troubles".. This vet has OFFERED to treat him.. I just don't think she knows what she got herself into..

Hmm, what kind of "flooring" should i do then? Specifically, like you said, some high quality hay? What about it getting wet.. Should I put a full cover on the enclosure? I have stone under the enclosure, and I got the hay because he loves to dive into it, bury stuff, etc.. I can put the enclosure in the grass.. Ill just have to put fencing down and dirt over it.. or dig and bury fencing.. or do stone plates and put dirt. I really like it's location currently, it's close to the house, convenient and safe with my "eye view".
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby Vata Raven » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:50 pm

H20 Sl wrote:Specifically, like you said, some high quality hay? What about it getting wet.. Should I put a full cover on the enclosure?

What I would suggest, craft or buy a pet house and put the hay in there. If you think about it, hay is normally spread out inside a barn for the animals to sleep in, or used for them to eat. Regardless, you do need to change the hay out regularly if it is used for bedding.
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Re: hay in enclosure, enclosure expirience, my fox expirience so far and a bit of a apology

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:22 pm

We never used straw or hay bedding without a cover or being inside and it was changed every day in the petting zoo and very frequently on the farm. In the zoo we used wood chips under it. Make sure they are kiln dried.

Or could do sand. Or maybe you could move sod where it is instead of moving the cage? If it's concrete maybe build a box for the sand or soil.

If he enjoys the hay you could just cover part of his enclosure and use it under there for enrichment and not substrate for the whole thing. Or as vata said just in a house or an inside portion of the enclosure.

I knew someone that swore by granite sand, she could get it cheap, as it helped keep odors down.

Tried to find a list of zoo used substrates but didn't find much.
"The dirt floor consists of a variety of substrates including sand, soil and wood mulch. These allow natural digging behaviours and are non-abrasive to their feet." from a zoo on Komodo dragon exhibit but it's one idea.

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