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Terrible 2s

Coatimundis, Kinkajous, Raccoons, Ringtails, Cacomistles, Olingos

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Kinkajou1987
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Terrible 2s

Postby Kinkajou1987 » Fri May 05, 2017 5:52 am

Greetings! I hope this finds you well! I need your expertise and/or for you to point me in the direction of people to talk to.

Recently I've had some medical hardships which caused me to be away from home for just about 2 months. Monday I returned and was reunited with my sweet man. Ark is coming up on 2 years in September. Not neutered. Living with my female, unspayed, Gotham. I was hoping to breed my kids, but at this point it may not be an option.

Last night Arkham viciously attacked me. He has gone after other people before, but never his mommy. I am emotionally shocked. He was relentless - injured both my feet, my arm, hands, and knee. He was crazed. It was not my kinkajou son. I got him into his cage. He settled and was fine. I was able to pet him and say goodnight.

This afternoon I cleaned the kink cage and got kisses from Arkham. Tonight I brought him out for a brief period of time, which ended because he latched into my wrist. I scruffed him and wrapped him in a towel. I held him to try to calm him down, but nothing. Not until he was physically behind bars. Then he took marshmallows from my hands and that was that.

So I am heartbroken and terrified. I'm leaning towards hormones and the "terrible 2s". I'm willing to neuter ASAP however I have literally no funds at the moment. I am just getting back on my feet. Do you know of any exotic vets that work with nonprofits in Florida? I work with BROWARD avian and exotic typically, but they are very expensive. Next idea, any natural remedies I could offer Ark to lower his testosterone until I can afford to neuter him?

He's recently grown bigger. He's been fed a steady diet of blueberries, apples, and bananas. Drinking plenty of water. He's been obsessively marking everything with his scent glands and squirting bits of pee as well. No aggression towards Gotham, to my knowledge. And the only major stress has been me going away for a couple months.

Any ideas and guidance are so appreciated. I need to find a temporary solution until I can neuter.

Thank you!

Please no judgements. I am a loving, distraught owner looking for answers and experience.
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Kagney
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby Kagney » Fri May 05, 2017 9:06 am

Sorry to hear about your situation. :(
It sounds like breeding aggression to me, and the fact that you had to be away from them for so long didn't help.
How big is their cage? Too small of an enclosure (especially for two) can cause problems with aggression also. Did you have someone actually handling them while you were away, or just feeding/cleaning up after them? Two months is a LONG time with no human contact, especially if there had been signs of aggression before and neither have been sterilized.
I have no experience with kinks, but its always a solid bet to try to take hormones out of the equation... get them BOTH spayed/neutered as soon as you can. I have no ideas for you as far as a temporary solution. Even neutering will take a good long while to calm him down, and may not eliminate aggression all together.
For now, I'd try to spend as much time with them as possible, and regain their trust. Not necessarily even handling them, just being in the same room with them and talking to them is a good start. Don't expect them to be just the same as before you left, that may be why you were attacked. Just go slow and be patient, try to rebuild that bond... and save, save, save for their medical expenses.
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri May 05, 2017 4:07 pm

Unfortunately aggression like that is common in unfixed kinks. So you can have pets or breeders but not both. No contact for 2 months is also a big deal for them and you may never get back to where you were but with work, and fixing, could tone down the aggression and can maybe win their trust again too.

You will probably get better advice from kink owners though I can only share what I've gleaned from others.

Here's a kink group https://www.facebook.com/groups/695014430642325/

But we'd love for you to continue to share with us and then your info can help others too.
Kinkajou1987
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby Kinkajou1987 » Sat May 06, 2017 1:36 am

Thank you for the replies! All valid information. I didn't trust the kinks to be handled by anyone else while I was gone. They were fed and cleaned. Their cage is 8x6x3. Not ideal; however they primarily used it for sleep and roamed at night. My time away was unplanned so I feel super guilty.

I've added enrichment activities. This weekend my BF and I are finished their playroom. Our sunroom has been refinished and we are going to build a jungle gym for them. So they will have their cage for sleep and playroom for night. I plan to interact with my male as little as possible to get him inside and allow him out of their cage.

He bit my wrist last night and went after me again today. My heart aches, but I pray this is a temporary situation.
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pat
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby pat » Sat May 06, 2017 12:06 pm

I don't have much more to add, I agree with mary and kagney.

the pen size for that time period will bring out aggression in most exotic animals.
however not having time with people will add to it, along with breeding season.

you can still get them fixed at that age, however, don't expect a big change.
it will help, but, not to the degree for your expectations.

for now, sit more at their level, and try and hand feed them some treats.
however, you might want to wait till they get use to you again.

Please keep us updated.
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

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Kinkajou1987
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby Kinkajou1987 » Sat May 06, 2017 9:05 pm

Good advice. I will certainly try my best. My kinks are my heart. More to come in the next couple of days as we get them settled into more play space.

Thanks for the support everyone!
Kinkajou1987
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby Kinkajou1987 » Mon May 08, 2017 12:21 am

Today we set up the playroom and launched the first night of play! Arkham (my terrible 2 male) begged to come out into the main room with his sweet face. So frusterating! But then he got it and my female joined him to explore. They climbed and ran around for hours. After play hours I am loading their enclosure up with foraging toys and activities.

ASAP we'll be adding a jungle gym from the ceiling and also an addition onto their enclosure. I will continue to work with Ark and add items to make sure they have the best life possible. Neutering is a must. I am searching for work to tackle all these goals. My medical issues were a set back, but we can only move forward.

He does still try to bite me. I use gloves and a towel to get him back into his cage.
Trefoil
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby Trefoil » Thu May 11, 2017 1:00 pm

I faced a problem like that with my coons,and I was only gone a week. Kinks have a reputation of being unstable. If there is any way you can do it, I would try getting him fitted for a muzzle and handling him extensively while muzzled,correcting him at any signs of aggression but don't harass him. I don't know how much change you'll see after getting him neutered but it won't get worse. You need to get your female neutered not just for her but because it will help calm him down, or should. My male coon is intact and seasonally unpredictably aggressive. Its super dangerous.98% of the time he is my sweetheart and so far when he decides to be nasty its out of the blue, but has always been on first contact,i.e. if he approaches me as friendly he doesn't change to aggressive. Every time we have an episode I realize that I have to do something, but I love him and let it go after its over, I guess that makes me an enabler.
My female coon is neutered and every once in a while will viciously attack, fortunately her idea of viciously attacking is growling loudly while gumming my toes as I wiggle them for her while I'm in bed.
She's a lot older than my male and I've had her since she was a baby.
Sparttan117
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby Sparttan117 » Thu May 11, 2017 9:21 pm

Trefoil wrote:My female coon is neutered and every once in a while will viciously attack, fortunately her idea of viciously attacking is growling loudly while gumming my toes as I wiggle them for her while I'm in bed.
She's a lot older than my male and I've had her since she was a baby.

I hate to be that guy (that's a lie, I enjoy being that guy immensely), but for females it's a spay and for males its a neuter. While they see very similar in concept, they're very different procedures because the vet has to go into the body cavity to spay but can just cut things off in a neuter (oversimplification, but that's the major difference).

Edit: wording
Trefoil
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby Trefoil » Fri May 12, 2017 12:09 am

Since you started it. Your above must be specific to dogs. While spay refers to the neutering of a female animal neuter refers to the lack or removal of sexual organs. Since we are not talking about dogs,neuter, while not as specific as spay, is correct.i.e. A spayed coon has been neutered.
neu·ter
ˈn(y)o͞odər/
adjective
adjective: neuter

1.
of or denoting a gender of nouns in some languages, typically contrasting with masculine and feminine or common.
"it is a neuter word in Greek"
2.
(of an animal) lacking developed sexual organs, or having had them removed.
(of a plant or flower) having neither functional pistils nor functional stamens.
(of a person) apparently having no sexual characteristics; asexual.
synonyms: asexual, sexless, unsexed; More
androgynous, epicene
"the traumatic abuses of his childhood left him feeling more neuter than masculine"

noun
noun: neuter; plural noun: neuters

1.
Grammar
a neuter word.
the neuter gender.
noun: the neuter
2.
a nonfertile caste of social insect, especially a worker bee or ant.
a castrated or spayed domestic animal.
a person who appears to lack sexual characteristics.

verb
verb: neuter; 3rd person present: neuters; past tense: neutered; past participle: neutered; gerund or present participle: neutering

1.
castrate or spay (a domestic animal).
"a neutered tomcat"
synonyms: sterilize, castrate, spay, geld, fix, desex, alter, doctor; archaicemasculate
"have your pets neutered"
render ineffective; deprive of vigor or force.
"disarmament negotiations that will neuter their military power"

Origin
late Middle English: via Old French from Latin neuter ‘neither,’ from ne- ‘not’ + uter ‘either.’
Translate neuter to
Use over time for: neuter
Translations, word origin, and more definitions
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri May 12, 2017 12:15 am

Yeah Neuter and spay is pretty much American slang and it's Neuter for all elsewhere or castrate and spay. It's probably all Bob Barker's Fault for his "have your pets spayed or neutered" sign off. Maybe they thought castrated was too harsh for morning TV :)
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pat
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby pat » Fri May 12, 2017 7:24 am

Kinkajou1987 wrote:Today we set up the playroom and launched the first night of play! Arkham (my terrible 2 male) begged to come out into the main room with his sweet face. So frusterating! But then he got it and my female joined him to explore. They climbed and ran around for hours. After play hours I am loading their enclosure up with foraging toys and activities.

ASAP we'll be adding a jungle gym from the ceiling and also an addition onto their enclosure. I will continue to work with Ark and add items to make sure they have the best life possible. Neutering is a must. I am searching for work to tackle all these goals. My medical issues were a set back, but we can only move forward.

He does still try to bite me. I use gloves and a towel to get him back into his cage.


hopefully, they will get better. sounds like you are really trying hard to make the happy.
I don't know alot about kinks, but, from what I have read, kinks are a little harder to raise than raccoons.

Hopefully, your kinks will get better as they get older. but, I still believe the small cage is not helping. how long do they stay in their cage?
are they learning words yet? my coons understand some words. (especially the word NO :lol: ) when they attempt to play bite with me, I tell them "no bite". however, that don't happen too often. only my youngest one tries sometimes) the other don't

I hope to see pictures, I am sure others would love to see them too. I am always looking for new ideas, and of course see your kinks.
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

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pat
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby pat » Fri May 12, 2017 7:27 am

Trefoil and Mary,

geez, I didn't know that. very interesting. guess we just got use to hearing neuter and spay for dogs.

thank you both for the great info.
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Kinkajou1987
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby Kinkajou1987 » Mon May 15, 2017 11:57 pm

Hi all! Sorry for the delay and thanks for keeping up! Trefoil the muzzle idea is great! I have been handling him with a pair of leather gloves and he doesn't attempt to harshly bit them. I have to be cautious of course and I'm doing this in small doses.

Each night Arkham and Gotham get at least 8 hour of playtime. They are out in the sunroom which has been reenforced for animal play. We used to keep our foxes indoors in the same area, so safe to say it's more than enough space and security.

I am using food as a positive reinforcement so I can safely maneuver them in and out of their enclosure. They are getting used to the routine.

It was suggested that I try aromatherapy, which has helped someone with their kink in the past. I am putting my worn clothes in Arkham's nest to reacclimate him to my scent. I am also going to try to spend time with him during the day. I'll nap with him or let him lay with me while I do something. He tends to get aggressive at night so I'm going to attempt more exposure during that time.

I have worked with coons and coatis, as well as a laundry list of other captive wildlife. Pat, thank you for validating my efforts. I am trying so hard. And it's true, kinks are more comparable to coatis when it comes to raising them; tougher than coons. Right now they are only sleeping in the cage. They are spending at lest 8 hours a night out. If anything they are awake for an hour eating before they go to sleep for the day. I am using enrichment activities and as soon as I am financially able we'll be enlarging the cage and adding more enrichment to their playroom.

Words! Ark has always been super smart. He and I share a special connection. I bottle fed him from 4 weeks old. Gotham came to me later in her life and unfortunately, she was wild caught. I learned that after I took her in. She has special needs and is super introverted, but I wouldn't change her for the world. They both definitely understand tones and basic words; and react accordingly.

Can you post photos to this feed?

Thanks again everyone! More to come!!
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Re: Terrible 2s

Postby Trefoil » Tue May 16, 2017 12:59 am

Please. I love seeing everyone's babies.

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