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Grapes

Coatimundis, Kinkajous, Raccoons, Ringtails, Cacomistles, Olingos

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catlover1019
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Grapes

Postby catlover1019 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:48 am

I don't currently have a raccoon or any other exotic pet. Getting a raccoon would involve moving out of state, or finding some sort of legal loophole (I live in Wasginton state.) I am very interested in raccoons, though. I'm wondering in there's been any known cases of grapes making raccoons or other procyonids sick. People tend to assume that they're toxic to raccoons, because they're toxic to dogs, but many people feed their raccoons, or wild raccoons that they feed, grapes, and I haven't heard of any problems relating to it. Does anybody know about any raccoon actually getting sick or dying because of grapes? I haven't even hears heresay of it, not to mention specific examples.
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pat
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Re: Grapes

Postby pat » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:32 am

grapes are fine for raccoons. just not a lot of them. I give mine a couple a day along with their food.
(cooked chicken with sweet potatoes, sugar free cereal, prunes (my oldest one love prunes)
a few marrow bones for treats. there is more foods that are OK.

I am sure the other members will chime in.

https://nagonline.net/wp-content/upload ... G-EDIT.pdf
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: Grapes

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:43 pm

Personally if I had one, I wouldn't feed it grapes just to be safe. There are tons of other things you can feed. I'm sure tons of raccoons are fed grapes and are fine but it's a weird thing. Tons of dogs were fed grapes and were fine too, even my own, prior to the news they were bad. It took the animal poison control to see a pattern of calls about kidney failure after eating grapes to recognize it. Doubt they get many raccoon calls about anything. Now it's been studied more but only in dogs and still not fully understood. It is the grapes fruit that causes it but they aren't sure why. And not every dog fed grapes will be effected, and one who has eaten grapes before and not been effected can be later. There is a dosage limit of how much eaten before causing problems but it's low. So even in dogs is sort of Russian roulette as many aren't effected but when an individual is it can be devastating.

So could it also be effecting the occasional raccoon but no one is keeping records to see the pattern, or even suspecting it because, hey everyone feeds grapes, so it must be some other reason? I do know of a skunk and fennec fox that died from kidney failure after eating grapes. Skunks are also omnivores.
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catlover1019
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Re: Grapes

Postby catlover1019 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:01 pm

Fennecs aren't very surprising because they are canids, being foxes. Skunks on the other hand are much more worrying, because they are far closer to raccoons, than they are to canids. Neither skunks nor fennecs seem to be as omnivorous as raccoons, but I don't really think that matters. If grapes were native fruit, raccoons could have evolved to be able to eat them, but they are not. I'll definitely think twice before feeding my raccoon grapes, if I ever have one, unless it conclusively is shown that they are safe.
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Re: Grapes

Postby pat » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:48 pm

based on info from different breeders and research. grapes were OK. but, I understand it is best to be safe than sorry.
I have spent a lot of time researching online last night. I did not see anything negative about grapes.

Mary, just curious, (not doubting you at all) but, where did you find that the info about the grapes?
also, lets assume a raccoon eats grapes everyday, how long does it take for grapes to be toxic for a raccoon?
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Re: Grapes

Postby catlover1019 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:59 pm

If I understand Mary's post correctly, she is not claiming there have been any documented cases of grape toxity in raccoons, she's reccomending caution because toxity has occured in related animals, such as dogs, fennecs, and skunks. As far as I know, grapes are acutely toxic, at least for dogs. Meaning that if it was going to hurt the animal, it would do so directly following exposure. With the caveat that somehow it may be toxic to them later on, without being toxic before.
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Re: Grapes

Postby DeweysMom » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:04 am

In our region, wild grapes ARE native to our area. Both wild fox and wild raccoons will indulge in them, along with all the other wild fruits in season.

From my research, it would appear that it's the grape SEED that is supposedly toxic, so ... I assume that any seedless type grape is OK. I feed my raccoons (seedless) grapes, but not in large quantities. They may get 6-8/day, but if I can find other fruits that are ripe and tasty, I offer them instead.
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2 Dogs - a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, & an Australian Shepherd; 3 Cats; 2 horses, 1 mule; One very spoiled raccoon and the love of my life, Dewey James, and the recently added but much adored, Bobby Lee, brother raccoon to Dewey
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Re: Grapes

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:52 pm

No, it's the fruit, that's one thing they do know. There was a study on that and seed and peel totally removed from the fruit was okay. Grape seed extract actually helped Hyzzie with her kidney issues, I looked into that before giving it.

It happens within hours to days if toxicity happens, it does not seem to be something that builds up. If I had to guess at what's going on, it would be that some individuals lack an enzyme to break down whatever it is in grapes that becomes toxic but normally wouldn't be as that enzyme would render it safe. Kind of like how some dog breeds can't have heart guard and some people can't digest lactose from milk. Only we haven't identified the chemical yet or a way to tell which dogs will be effected until they are.

Just looked it up again and thought it took less grapes than this. But 0.7 oz/kg of grapes and 0.11 oz/kg of raisins can cause toxicity. 1 grape came in between .18 to .2 ounces. So roughly 3 grapes for a 2.2 pound animal could be toxic. So I guess it would take quite a bit for a large raccoon.

Yeah, I was saying I wouldn't give them just to be safe because we don't know anything. All we have is the anecdotal info that everyone feeds grapes to raccoons, so the assumption it must be okay. But there's also the fact that everyone thought it was okay to feed grapes to their dogs at one time as well because only a few are actually effected so the pattern wasn't obvious. So we can't say for sure that it's not hurting some of them but based on the dosage above a grape or two as treats would probably be fine just due to a raccoon's size. That's probably why Quasi was okay before I'd heard about grapes being bad. I used to let him have a half grape or 3 when I was eating them but he was a 15 pound dog.

Things I wouldn't have any reservations giving grapes too: fruigivores, herbivores and primates. For anything else I'd avoid them to be safe or at the least keep the dosage amount in mind and limit them.
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Re: Grapes

Postby DeweysMom » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:19 pm

When in doubt, I often consult the AZA Diet Guidelines. Not saying they know everything, or can't make mistakes, but I feel a certain amount of confidence in their guidelines. Apparently, they are OK with grapes in a raccoon's diet.
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AZA Raccoon Diet.jpg
Dana

2 Dogs - a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, & an Australian Shepherd; 3 Cats; 2 horses, 1 mule; One very spoiled raccoon and the love of my life, Dewey James, and the recently added but much adored, Bobby Lee, brother raccoon to Dewey
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Re: Grapes

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:14 pm

They are apparently okay with grapes in a skunks diet too
Image

Some skunks have gotten sick or died from eating grapes or raisins - Skunk Haven
Grapes and raisins are known to be fatal to skunks- http://mephitisadvocate.com

But still it would take quite a few grapes for a large animal like a raccoon so if yours have been fine then no reason to stop just don't feed a lot of them at once. For a new owner I think it might be better to not start feeding them, but I know I'm in the minority.

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