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SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

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Jen Jen
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby Jen Jen » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:11 am

Hm. I figured way back when I decided I wanted one of these that I'd be spending a lot of money, so while very disappointing this isn't a deal breaker. Who knows, maybe between now and then, they will realize their sales for these have gone way down and drop the price? :/
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby zebrafox » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:27 am

Still not giving up

This is some new info I have.
--------------

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:30 AM

Dear XXXXX-
Our question is about two tame red foxes sent to Dallas from Novosibirsk,
Russia.
We have received information from Dmitry V. Ovcharenko (person, who waits of
foxes in Dallas):
"two live foxes rejected by US Fish and Wildlife" - without explaining of
any reasons of rejection.

Could you please, confirm this decision and clarify what is the main reason
for re-importing of foxes. All veterinary, custom etc. documents were
enclosed. These documents were checked and found eligible by Dallas FWS
Office before delivering of foxes (as we know from cargo agency). Is it
possible to fix this problem?
Or please, let us know, with whom we must contact on this question?

Sincerely, XXXXX

29.10.2011 2:26
Hello All,

This was rejected by the Texas Department of Wildlife, due to state regulations, Nevada has a similar ruling.
This was not rejected by US Fish and Wildlife. Due to the State regulations we are being directed to send them back to DME. They will be re-exported on BA192/29OCT under new master awb 125-8090 6910. Please advise ok to forward asap. The prohibition to ownership of foxes in both Texas and Nevada was a surprise to all but unfortunately there is no possibility of obtaining a waiver and thus the animals MUST be returned.
XXX
Operations Supervisor-DFW Airport TX

29.10.2011 3:40

The state of Texas where the foxes arrived and also the state of Nevada said to be their final destination both require permits to import foxes and these permits are issued for limited purposes. The importer did not have permits from either state and has been offered the opportunity to return the foxes as violating the state laws would also be a violation of federal law under the Lacey Act.

XXXX
Wildlife Inspector
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Office of Law Enforcement

01.11.2011 1:14
The foxes have been transferred to a zoo. I think the one fox may need further medical care but the zoo is providing.
XXXX
Wildlife Inspector
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Office of Law Enforcement
---------
I think the "master awb" means Air Waybill ("or air consignment note refers to a receipt issued by an international airline for goods and an evidence of the contract of carriage, but it is not a document of title to the goods. Hence, the AWB is non-negotiable.") Ive called the office of law enforcement USFWS and that particular inspector is on vacation until next week, so I talked to someone else, and she basically told me I can get no information and no one is going to help me. Im not sure what to do at this point. Ive left a message with my helpful contact at the USFWS about this and maybe she will know what to do.
Any ideas on what zoo they might have gone to? Even if I did locate him, is it legal/possible for zoos to transfer/sell an animal to a private individual?
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:51 pm

Interesting. Well, it would be legal for the zoo to sell you the fox but they are most likely AZA and AZA has guidelines that prohibit selling to non-aza(or strongly discourage it at least). So it will likely be a dead end even if you do find them but I doubt any one will ever tell you which zoo. It's a privacy issue. You would have to file an official request under the freedom of information act then might get the info if there is a ruling in your favor(you show what they consider a legit reason for needing that info). No one will just tell you because you asked though.
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zebrafox
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby zebrafox » Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:03 pm

at least now I know hes in good hands I guess... though maybe not as good as a home with a loving family, it sure beats a wire cage.
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby caninesrock » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:39 pm

Even if you did find the zoo and the zoo was allowed to sell to you, I doubt they'd be willing to especially if its the only fox the zoo has and they have a lot of visits that go and look at the new fox enclosure.
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Jen Jen
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby Jen Jen » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:21 pm

You've come this far. I wouldn't lose total hope.
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby Juska » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:45 pm

ZebraFox, I don't know if I missed it, but did you get your money refunded?
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zebrafox
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby zebrafox » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:23 pm

Yeah I got my money back Juska.

Found a guy who specializes in animal import/export cases and hiring him to help me try and locate the foxes.
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby trish_clare » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:26 pm

So it seems Sibfox wasn't entirely a scam? They're just a poorly run company.

What exactly was the problem? The foxes were exported to an illegal state?
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zebrafox
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby zebrafox » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:53 pm

yeah, sibfox tried to bring them into the country though texas, and apparently texas has a ban on importing/keeping foxes. They didnt want to pay for the foxes' return flight to russia so they signed them over to the government.

So no, Sibfox was NOT a scam, just poorly run. They dont seem to be doing business anymore so it doesnt really matter anyway
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby Ash » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:55 pm

Sibfox was not properly licensed to import as well. So they didn't have any power to import anything into the country. Trying to without a license is illegal--but I don't think there was any bad intent there, it seems it was due to ignorance.
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby TobiasAmaranth » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:23 pm

I personally don't like the thought of the domesticated foxes in a Zoo. That's like keeping someone's pet dog in a Zoo. Weird.

I say continue this, and if you can find them and document their behavior at their new enclosure, you could then provide that information to the Texas Fish and Wildlife and work on getting exemptions for that type of animal in Texas, possibly other states. The more exposure that these guys get around here, the more likely things can be changed to allow more flexibility (and less retardation lol)

Oi, it sucks living in Texas and having a fox interest. X_x;
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zebrafox
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby zebrafox » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:25 pm

I dont think he'd be happier in a zoo than with me either. I still havent given up. I really have a hard time just "letting go" the fact that my baby was essentially taken from me.
The guy I have hired to help me cant get any information from the Officer who dealt with this case for the same reason i coukdnt. The officer is withholding information because the fox was imported under Sibfox guy's name and not mine, so im a third party. Filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) document today with the following:
Seeking the name of the zoo or facility holding two domestic red foxes (vulpes vulpes) that were imported by Dmitry V. Ovcharenko from novosibirsk into Dallas (DFW Airport) on 10/27/11.
Foxes were rejected by the Texas Department of Wildlife, due to state regulations. Dmitry signed USWF form 3-2096 transferring foxes to be a government property. Foxes were then transferred to a zoo. Ricky Brooks
Wildlife Inspector U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Office of Law Enforcement DFW Airport, TX 75261(972)574-3254 has the whereabouts information of the foxes.
------
Knowing the government there will be some loophole in FOIA or reason why they cant release the information. But we will see what happens....

In the meantime if you can just keep an eye on the zoos you know of and let me know if you hear or see anything about foxes popping up at any zoo.
best case scenario:Because Viktor was shipped with his brother, if i locate them, and the zoo accepts my offer to buy them back, I might buy his brother too just to get him out of the zoo, and try to place him with another fox person. Id need to be repaid the amount spent to buy him. right now I dont know how much that would be. But Id love him to go to someone on the boards...
Thank you
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby Alynn » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:17 pm

Good luck Zebra. I'll start looking at zoo websites. It's a big state, but there's only so many accredited zoos, and I'll let you know if I find anything. If they got the new foxes I'm sure they'll be pretty excited to mention they now have them especially after the publication in National Geographic... which is worrisome that they might not let them go.

But don't lose hope!
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zebrafox
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Re: SIBFOX SCAM and domestic fox discussion

Postby zebrafox » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:44 pm

Im not sure theyd say anything publically or plan to display them yet, apparently at least one of the foxes wasnt in good health upon arrival. Dont know exactly what was wrong with them though

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