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Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Breeding, caging, housing, bottle feeding, domestication, colors, in cage enrichment, etc.

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caninesrock
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby caninesrock » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:25 pm

Alynn wrote:SteenH.Moller@agrsci.dk is the publisher's email address I do believe. .dk means Denmark, and the book was published in Denmark. I can't say anything on whether or not Dave is the only distributor because I do not know.

The only other thing that I have to add is that Caninesrock, your first post directed towards Dave came off as very hostile and condescending, which was uncalled for.

I made this thread because I was really excited to get this book and I wanted to share what I had learned from it. I didn't want it to cause any disagreement.

As an artist myself I would prefer to respect copyright.

The only reason I responded that way was becuase Dave's post was rude and uncalled for, threatening to sue someone becuase they shared a few pictures from the book and acting like he owns the book. It's not exactly like its an easy book to find just laying on the shelf at any old book store and everyone has $50 dollars they can spend on a book. People here just want to learn. Should they be denied that opportunitey just because they're not rich enough to waste money on a rare book that probably cost $50 dollars or maybe more for a copy which to top it off, they might not be able to get a copy of anyway because from what I understand, there aren't very many English copies in exsistance? One thing about me is I'm pretty easy to get along with,but if someone else is rude to me, I have a bad habitat of being rude back.
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:39 pm

Okay but it would be easier just to link to the page they are on
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=8591&start=60
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby caninesrock » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:02 pm

TamanduaGirl wrote:Okay but it would be easier just to link to the page they are on
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=8591&start=60

Ok. There were some on this page too though:
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=8591&start=15
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby Alynn » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:48 pm

caninesrock wrote:
Alynn wrote:SteenH.Moller@agrsci.dk is the publisher's email address I do believe. .dk means Denmark, and the book was published in Denmark. I can't say anything on whether or not Dave is the only distributor because I do not know.

The only other thing that I have to add is that Caninesrock, your first post directed towards Dave came off as very hostile and condescending, which was uncalled for.

I made this thread because I was really excited to get this book and I wanted to share what I had learned from it. I didn't want it to cause any disagreement.

As an artist myself I would prefer to respect copyright.

The only reason I responded that way was becuase Dave's post was rude and uncalled for, threatening to sue someone becuase they shared a few pictures from the book and acting like he owns the book. It's not exactly like its an easy book to find just laying on the shelf at any old book store and everyone has $50 dollars they can spend on a book. People here just want to learn. Should they be denied that opportunitey just because they're not rich enough to waste money on a rare book that probably cost $50 dollars or maybe more for a copy which to top it off, they might not be able to get a copy of anyway because from what I understand, there aren't very many English copies in exsistance? One thing about me is I'm pretty easy to get along with,but if someone else is rude to me, I have a bad habitat of being rude back.


At no point did he threaten to sue anyone. He said simply that I could get in trouble for violating copyright, which is true whether or not he has a contract for the book. It's true for any book. Your response was unprovoked. Even if he was being rude, it doesn't justify being rude right back.

Whether or not it costs money is not the point. I'm not going to put up a download link for Photoshop because some people don't have $300 and just want to learn how to use it. A university is not going to open up free classes to people because some people just want to learn but they can't afford the classes or don't want to spend the extra money for it.

If you don't want the spend the money on the book, that doesn't mean that you're entitled to it just because you want the information in there but you're not willing to "waste the money on a rare book".

I'm willing to share some interesting information that pertains to some questions that people have asked before (temperament of species vs species, information about hybrids, information about how to get a certain color, etc.), but I'm not going to reproduce the book word for word or scan a picture, because it is a violation of copyright and disrespectful to the people who did pay the money to get it or even paid for the rights to use the pictures.

I really just wanted to share what I learned and to rave because I was excited to get it, not get into a debate over copyright or tone of text in an discussion.
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby RabbleFox » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:25 pm

What would happen if you cited your source? I am not saying that you should upload all of the photos in the book but if there was something that you found really interesting in the text (or I suppose a certain photo) and wanted to post here, I think it would be legal if you cited your source MLA style. I am actually working on a research paper for a class and this is kind of relevant. I for one totally want to here more about how certain color morphs come about. I knew there were a lot of colors to pick from in a Red Fox gene pool but there are a lot I didn't know about!
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby caninesrock » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:45 pm

@Alynn: I wasn't saying you should scan the whole book, just a couple of pictures.
And believe me, if I had $50 dollars to waste on a book, I would buy it,but as it is I barely have money for food being off at college and that still doesn't help the fact that even if I or others did have money for the book and wanted it, that there are so few copies of it in English that they might not be able to get it anyway. The photoshop thing is different. That's putting up a whole program. But just scanning a couple of pictures from a book doesn't do any harm. It's not like you'd be putting up the whole book so people would still want to buy it when they have the money. In fact, it would actually be promoting the book, like giving a little taste or teaser to the contents if you will that will make people want to buy the book. I never said I'm entitled to the book. I don't except you to scan the whole book,but me and others are saying it wouldn't hurt if you scanned just a few pictures from it. Of course, we are not forcing you to scan the book. I apologize if I came off as rude. I tend to have anger management issues when I think someone is insulting me that I need really need to work on.

As for copyright, I might respect copyright more if it wasn't so strict in this country. Do I think people should be allowed to put up or download whole programs,books, or movies? No. But I think it's kind of harsh for them to get in trouble for uploading a couple of pictures or a music video with clips from a movie they like up on youtube as long as they give credit to the original source by saying what book and what photographer the photos or pictures came from and what movie the clips come from and what the song is,etc. The argument of losing money really isn't valid unless it involves putting up the whole book,movie, etc. In reality, I know first hand it actually helps the companies to make more money. I know there are a couple of manga/comics that once I saw pictures of them online, I became interested and went out and bought them and wouldn't have even known about them if it wasn't for the pictures those people scanned. Same with the music videos. I went and bought the songs and/or the movies I became intersted in by hearing or seeing them in the video. It's not disrespect. It's free advertising,but companies don't actually look into it enough to see it that way because they're too caught up in making money to realize that what they think is making them lose money is actually free publicity that is making them more money. Of course, using clips, music,pictures, photos, etc. without citing the source it came from is a whole different matter though.
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby Neofelis » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:25 pm

Woah. Why so argumentative, people? Lately there are arguments everywhere on this board!
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby Talys » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:26 pm

Well back to the original topic, Alynn, how far in depth does it talk about taming between the foxes? Does it get into specific methods, what works for different species? Or is it mainly delving into the mysteries of the fox pelt rainbow? (That sounds a lot more fruity outside my head than in xD)
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby Daisy » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:32 pm

Thank you Alyn for understanding and following the law . It amazes me sometimes that someone as young as you are can be more mature than someone 8-10 years older. I am glad you like the book and as an Artist you can appreciate the countless hours of work that went into putting all that information together. Feel free to tell what you have learned from the book and thank you for not scanning . Someday that college student might understand the lesson in this post in more than one way . By the way how is your little Polar doing I have not seen pictures of her for quite awhile
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby Alynn » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:35 pm

Caninesrock - Sorry you think it's a waste and I'm sorry for the situaton that you're in, but I think it's a slippery slope between a few pictures and a few pages that I'm really not willing to test. I think the copyright laws in this country are kind of rediculous too in some aspects, but I'm stilll going to abide by them. And I don't mind too much at all about that, you apologized and that's what matters. =)

Talys -- It doesn't mention taming a whole lot, but there are tons of pictures of fur farmers letting their foxes, from kits to adults playing with them, their dogs and their children. It really shows how much of a passion and love the farmers have for these creatures. Other than that, no, unfortunately not. :c

Dave - Thank you. I think it is understandable to be frustrated with the copyright laws though, so I wouldn't say that Caninesrock is being immature, just trying to make a case and does have some good points. I don't agree with her stance but that's all. :)

Miehiera is doing great, she's such a sweetheart. Last time she so much as growled was way back in September, but now she's fine. I couldn't wait for her winter coat to come in, but now I'm anxiously waiting on her summer coat. I'll send some pictures your way if I can get the chance, and I'm sure you're busy with all the foxes as breeding season rolls around. I wish I could come and see all the foxes on the farm!
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby caninesrock » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:48 pm

Daisy wrote:Thank you Alyn for understanding and following the law . It amazes me sometimes that someone as young as you are can be more mature than someone 8-10 years older. I am glad you like the book and as an Artist you can appreciate the countless hours of work that went into putting all that information together. Feel free to tell what you have learned from the book and thank you for not scanning . Someday that college student might understand the lesson in this post in more than one way . By the way how is your little Polar doing I have not seen pictures of her for quite awhile

......There's a million things I could say at that,but since I'm trying to work on controlling my anger, I'll just leave it at the fact that everyone whose ever posted on the interenet, whether they did it intentionally or not, has broken the copyright laws in this country with the way they are set up. Does that mean everyone on this forum is a criminal and should be arrested?

Also, I will say that there are people who break copyright alot worse than I do. I buy all my computer software, manga/books as long as their in English and not like a needle in the haystack to find, music, anime, and movies. I have never downloaded movies, music, or computer software illegally for free which is more than some people can say. If you want to consider anyone a criminal based on copyright law, consider those people the criminals. Me scanning one photo or using one song in a video on the internet does not make me a criminal. That's like saying someone who makes a parody of a song on youtube is a criminal because they are using the song without permission and sadly, with the way copyright law is written, they probably would be. Heck,technically, even librarians are criminals based on copyright law because they make money off of books they have no rights to by letting people borrow the books to read for free,thus causing the publisher to lose money(hence the supposed point of copyright law) and them charging them late or lost fees for the book.
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby Ragtatter » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:56 pm

Caninesrock, I don't know where you're getting your information from regarding copyright law, but what you're saying could not be further from the truth. Take it from someone who has actually studed the subject in-depth. For example, parodies are protected under copyright law as a legal use of the material. However, using a song that you didn't create or license for use IS a violation of copyright law, whether you're making money off the stolen material or not.

Your misunderstanding of copyright law aside, Alynn's made it very clear that she is not going to break the law to show you a few pictures, so please be respectful of her decision (and the law) and please stop pestering her about it. No means no.
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby Alynn » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:07 pm

Somebody else breaking copyright law or even having done it myself doesn't justify breaking it myself. I'm not going to touch the argument you have there but I'm just going to leave it at there is a very, very blurry line between scanning a few pictures and scanning a few more, or using a one song and just a couple more.
I can see what your opinion on the matter is, I just personally don't want to test the law.
I understand your frustration, I do. I just don't want to debate copyright law here.
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby caninesrock » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:31 pm

Ragtatter wrote:Caninesrock, I don't know where you're getting your information from regarding copyright law, but what you're saying could not be further from the truth. Take it from someone who has actually studed the subject in-depth. For example, parodies are protected under copyright law as a legal use of the material. However, using a song that you didn't create or license for use IS a violation of copyright law, whether you're making money off the stolen material or not.

Your misunderstanding of copyright law aside, Alynn's made it very clear that she is not going to break the law to show you a few pictures, so please be respectful of her decision (and the law) and please stop pestering her about it. No means no.

I am not trying to pester her into anything. I'm just stating my point on copyright. Parodies aren't protected if they use the actual tune from the song. I've seen it happen that people get in trouble for that. They actually have to literally make up their own tune to go with the parody and have themselves or someone else play it on an instrument. I am respectful on her decision. My last post was mainly at Dave for accusing me of having done something worthy of being put in jail for a long with people who've actually done stuff much worse. I don't want her to put pictures up if she doesn't want to. I really just wanted to rant about how copyright law isn't fair in my opinion and make a point about why and how some copyright owners are too strict about the material they own in my opinion. Really, I never meant to bother or pester Aylnn at all. My posts were just meant to explain my post of view,not try and get Alyyn to post any pictures.

But,regardless, this is the last I'll say on the subject because Alynn said she doesn't want her topic to be turned into a copyright debate so I'm going to respect her wishes and drop it now and just agree to disagree with others' opinons on copyright so I'll stop spamming her topic.

If need be, we could always start another topic about debating copyright.

@Alyynn:Sorry I kind of hijacked your topic and if it seemed like I was trying to pressure you to put up pictures. I didn't mean to.
Congrats on getting the book.
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Re: Beautiful Fur Animals and their colour genetics

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:48 pm

If you want to keep debating to copyright laws please do so in the controversial section, though not directly animal related it belongs there more than here.

Any more posts about the subject here will be deleted and the user will get an official warning.

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