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New Gizmo Diet

When to spay, food, treats, illnesses, grooming, parasites, odor, Teeth, other care as it pertains to health, etc.

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Ragtatter
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New Gizmo Diet

Postby Ragtatter » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:16 pm

Alright, let me say that as of this posting, this diet is still untested. I'll probably make my first test batch some time next week. It was designed to feed a 13-lb red fox for 8 days. A bigger fox will eat more in a day, and a smaller fox will eat less, but so long as the mixture is homogenous it will still be balanced for them.

Due to the number of reports I had of foxes having some digestive issues with my beef-based diet, this maintenance diet contains no beef.

Ingredients:
2 lbs raw ground chicken
2 lbs raw ground turkey
8 hardboiled eggs (shells powdered and included)
4 oz raw tilapia
1.5 cups rolled oats
1 (411g) can green beans
1/2 cup ground flaxseed
1 tbsp carrot juice
4 tsp wheat germ oil
1 tsp cod liver oil

Daily Values:
These values are based on the above mixture being broken into 8 portions, but will "scale" with a fox that eats more or less in a day. (Components marked with an asterisk mean that the minimum daily amount for a fox was unavailable, so I substituted the needed daily amount for a comparably sized dog.)

Energy breakdown:
39% from Protein
47% from Fat
14% from Carbohydrate

Nutrients:
Energy: 737 kcal
Protein: 63.89 g
Fat: 36.44 g
Ash: 4.91 g
Carbohydrate: 24.54 g
*Fiber: 5.78 g
*Sugar: 1.3 g

Minerals:
Calcium: 926.20 mg
*Iron: 5.67 mg
Magnesium: 149.00 mg
*Phosphorus: 830.52 mg
*Potassium: 1,257.20 mg
*Sodium: 274.72 mg
Zinc: 11.55 mg
Copper: 0.51 mg
*Manganese: 1.84 mg
*Selenium: 74.86 mcg

Vitamins:
Vitamin C: 1.91 mg
Thiamin: 0.62 mg
Riboflavin: 1.05 mg
Niacin: 15.01 mg
Pantothenic Acid: 4.28 mg
Vitamin B-6: 1.44 mg
Folic Acid: 88.00 mcg
*Vitamin B-12: 3.09 mcg
Vitamin A: 1674.63 IU
Vitamin E: 4.97 mg
Vitamin D: 176.75 IU
Vitamin K: 2.54 mcg
*Choline: 360.88 mg

Essential Fatty Acids:
Linoleic Acid: 7.26 g
Linolenic Acid: 2.05 g

Amino Acids:
*Tryptophan: 0.73 g
*Threonine: 2.81 g
*Isoleucine: 2.99 g
*Leucine: 5.15 g
*Lysine: 5.12 g
*Methionine: 1.75 g
*Cystine: 0.92 g
*Phenylalanine: 2.76 g
*Valine: 3.23 g
*Arginine: 4.32 g
*Histidine: 1.12 g

Calcium:Phosphorus Ratio: 1.12
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BlueBaby1023
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby BlueBaby1023 » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:27 pm

You do amazing work! I've had your maintenance diet bookmarked from the start, and I hope that this diet works well because it would be a better combination of ingredients for my animals as we will have far more chicken, turkey, and tilapia than beef and salmon. :)

I know that I, and many others, truly appreciate your hard work put into researching these ingredients and then measuring out how much a balanced diet needs. From my nutrition classes in college that balanced feeds with just a few ingredients in them, I know this is not an easy task. Thank you for everything you have done. :)
4 Fancy Rats
2 American Guinea Pigs
1 Holland Lop Rabbit
1 Rex Rabbit
2 Ferrets
1 Lutino Cockatiel
5 Mixed Breed Cats
1 PitxLab
1 Great Pyr
1 Greyhound
2 Great PyrxAnatolian Shepherds
2 Red Foxes
5 Goats
~100 chickens, ducks, and turkeys
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Ragtatter
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Ragtatter » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:54 pm

Thanks. :)

I'm still not COMPLETELY happy with this one. I'd love to find an alternative to the ground flaxseed, but so far I haven't found anything that really compares to it in linolenic acid content. I'd also prefer to reduce the % energy from fat by a few points, as right now it's on the very high end of the acceptable range.

Still, while I work on figuring out a way to do that, this one is far better than my others (on paper, at least). It still has to pass making the test batch, and get Gizmo's approval.

I just really wish that I had the resources to do official feeding trials. :/


:lol: You guys will back a Kickstarter for me to keep 20 foxes for 15 years, right? Right?
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Ash
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Ash » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:06 pm

Awesome. :) I was hoping you'd come up with it soon. I'm very interested to know how Gizmo does on it. I can't imagine the amount of study and research you've put into this.

Fable is 20 pounds, so if I was going to go with this diet, I'd have to use larger portions.

So does the calcium all come from the powdered egg shells only?
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, salamander, 3 tarantulas
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BlueBaby1023
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby BlueBaby1023 » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:16 pm

Ragtatter wrote: :lol: You guys will back a Kickstarter for me to keep 20 foxes for 15 years, right? Right?


Not a bad idea, but I think most of us spend all of our money on either maintaining or acquiring new animals. Which says something about us, doesn't it? :lol:

Hey, maybe in a few years (5ish?) you can do a feeding trial on my foxes. :lol:

I do want to breed in the near future, but it'll be a few years before I have more than 1 or 2 reds. Veterinary school and starting up a farm are the main projects for now. :mrgreen:
4 Fancy Rats
2 American Guinea Pigs
1 Holland Lop Rabbit
1 Rex Rabbit
2 Ferrets
1 Lutino Cockatiel
5 Mixed Breed Cats
1 PitxLab
1 Great Pyr
1 Greyhound
2 Great PyrxAnatolian Shepherds
2 Red Foxes
5 Goats
~100 chickens, ducks, and turkeys
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Ragtatter
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Ragtatter » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:44 pm

Ash wrote:Fable is 20 pounds, so if I was going to go with this diet, I'd have to use larger portions.


The amount of food made by this recipe should feed a 20 lb fox for about 5 days instead of 8. :) Keep in mind that the actual amount eaten will vary based on the temperature and the fox's activity level. As a general rule of thumb, feed your fox two or three times a day, and continue to give food at each feeding until the fox stops eating it and starts caching it.

Ash wrote:So does the calcium all come from the powdered egg shells only?


One powdered eggshell has about 800mg of calcium, so it makes up the bulk in this recipe. However, there's also a little bit of calcium in everything except the wheat germ oil, and the cod liver oil.
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:58 pm

Ragtatter wrote:Thanks. :)

I'd love to find an alternative to the ground flaxseed, but so far I haven't found anything that really compares to it in linolenic acid content.


Chia seeds have more and are full of minerals. Pua loves them.

They are a bit different to work with grind them then soak them before mixing them into the food or the will glob up. Or soak and don't grind but at least for Pua any unground seeds she has come out as seeds still.

I buy them in bulk off Amazon but I think some feed stores may be able to order it in actual big bulk. I just by like a 2 pound box.

Edit: the highest in linolic acid looks like sunflower seeds: http://thepaleodiet.com/seed-fatty-acid-composition/
Of course that links has some bad things to say about chia but it has helped lower Pua's blood sugar by adding them.
amandagm
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby amandagm » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:25 pm

Wow!! You are amazing! I can't wait to try it. Do you also provide a dish with dry kibble to help keep their teeth free from buildup?
I just have to figure out how to multiply it by 10 or so. :shrug:
Thank you for all the effort and time you put into making these recipes to keep our babies healthy and happy. icon-smile
Thank you!!
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Elina
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Elina » Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:03 pm

Look what I just made:
image.jpg
New gizmos


Shall let you know how everyone likes it. They better like it though, I have 20lbs of it lol.
So this is about to be taste tested on the following:

5 adult fennecs
4 adult corsacs
2 adult arctics
And
4 adult v.vulpes

And potentially Dilly the AKK. Dogs are meant to have a % organ meat but Dilly won't touch organ. I really don't blame her, it stinks! Interestingly the foxes won't either. They will eat heart till they burst but that is a muscle so no surprise there.
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http://theflashmans.blogspot.com/ - Online home of Elspeth and Harry Flashman the Corsac foxes.
http://flashmanfoxes.webs.com - Photos and videos of my foxlings!
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Alynn
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Alynn » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:32 pm

Thanks for sharing the new diet with us. Looks great!
I didn't realized you had 4 reds - Secret, Ranger, Callie and ?
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Ragtatter
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Ragtatter » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:55 pm

TamanduaGirl wrote:Chia seeds have more and are full of minerals. Pua loves them.


I eat chia seeds every morning for breakfast, and they hadn't occurred to me at all to try in Gizmo's food. I'll have to work up a version that uses them instead of flaxseed.

amandagm wrote:Wow!! You are amazing! I can't wait to try it. Do you also provide a dish with dry kibble to help keep their teeth free from buildup?

"Kibble cleans teeth" is a myth. Kibble has no proven benefit for the dental health of dogs or cats--in fact there is some reason to believe that it might actually contribute to tartar and plaque build up. It has also been linked to diabetes and urinary tract issues in cats, and obesity and allergies in both dogs AND cats, so I avoid it like the plague.


Elina, please let me know what your skulk thinks of the food! :)
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the_unstable
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby the_unstable » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:12 am

Is it just me, or does wheat germ oil smell extremely foul? I had bought some in the past (ordered online) and I the smell was just so strong, like it had gone off or something. Is that how it's supposed to smell?
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Elina
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Elina » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:24 pm

Alynn wrote: I didn't realized you had 4 reds - Secret, Ranger, Callie and ?


Ranger & Callie, Secret and Whisper ;-).

Elina, please let me know what your skulk thinks of the food! :)
1

So far thumbs up from all foxes but my picky klee kai was upset that the fish had changed lol.
Ranger was caching it last night before he ate it like it needed marinading in wood chips but this morning he ate it right away.

I love how you can change what raw food you feed and have no ill effect with regards to loose stools or at least this was not the case this time. :icon-wink: I will let you know if that changes because obviously for breakfast yesterday they had the recovery diet so yesterday was not 100% the new food.

amandagm wrote:Do you also provide a dish with dry kibble to help keep their teeth free from buildup?


Raw bones Amanda. Honestly a chicken wing/lamb rib/chicken carcass before bed time works wonders on the teeth of any canid. Also the raw diet leaves them with wonderful breath and their poop is small, firm, not too smelly pellets so feeding raw is good for you as well as good for your foxes. :icon-wink: Mine have been on Rags diets for 4 years I think it is now and we have never looked back.
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http://theflashmans.blogspot.com/ - Online home of Elspeth and Harry Flashman the Corsac foxes.
http://flashmanfoxes.webs.com - Photos and videos of my foxlings!
dragonking
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby dragonking » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:26 pm

Was wondering something, figured put it in here before trying to make a full thread in the diet forum.

Are crustaceans good for foxes? Either as a treat or common in the diet. Shrimp, crayfish, lobster, crab and other such stuff.

Further note, what about muscles? Clams and oysters as treats.
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Alynn
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Alynn » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:11 pm

As mentioned in this (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12212) thread here, any fish that contains thiamine can be unsafe for foxes to eat. A treat can be fine but as being common in the diet (10% or more) it can start being a possible danger to the foxes' health.
A number of clams, mussels, shrimp and other aquatic invertebrates have also been reported to contain thiaminase.


So just be careful about what you feed.

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