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New Gizmo Diet

When to spay, food, treats, illnesses, grooming, parasites, odor, Teeth, other care as it pertains to health, etc.

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dragonking
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby dragonking » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:49 pm

Ahh, okay. Plus giving them a live crayfish would probably not work. Depending on how they react to being pinched.
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Ragtatter
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Ragtatter » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:11 pm

Alynn wrote:As mentioned in this (http://www.raskbb.com/sybilsden/viewtop ... =6&t=12212) thread here, any fish that contains thiamine can be unsafe for foxes to eat. A treat can be fine but as being common in the diet (10% or more) it can start being a possible danger to the foxes' health.
A number of clams, mussels, shrimp and other aquatic invertebrates have also been reported to contain thiaminase.


So just be careful about what you feed.



Just pointing out, "Thiamine" and "Thiaminase" are not the same thing. Fish containing thiamine are perfectly safe for foxes to eat--they actually require thiamine in their diet.

Thiaminase needs to be avoided, as it breaks down the necessary thiamine in the diet, causing a deficiency.
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Alynn » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:33 pm

Thanks for catching that!
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby dragonking » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:00 am

Looking in that, as well as finding a list that had stuff other than fish on it, Clams aren't good, but oysters probably are. Shrimp are a no-no but Crayfish, Crabs, and other crustaceans might be.
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New Gizmo Diet

Postby Bekki » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:28 pm

If you're feeding cod liver oil could you swap out for krill oil? Also how about probiotics? And what was the need for the tilapia if you're adding in omegas from the fish oil? Specifics on type of chicken and reason for doing a combo of turkey and chicken? Is it based on the amount of taurine? I've never fed turkey before but I am aware of the higher concentrations of taurine in dark meat. Also do you do a nutritional supplement? And grind bones or no bones? And the reason for the rolled oats? I was told neither feline or canine need carbohydrates in their diet it is the protien that they metabolize. I could very well be wrong. Sorry for all the questions just looking into a meal plan at the moment and brain storming. Thank you for any answers you can provide! Also nice work it took me a solid month to come up with a raw meal plan for my two hybrid cats. Many hours of research. And it shows you did a ton of homework here. =]


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Ragtatter
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Ragtatter » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:46 am

Bekki wrote:If you're feeding cod liver oil could you swap out for krill oil?

I don't know, I don't have the nutritional data fro krill oil handy.

Bekki wrote:Also how about probiotics?

This diet already assumes that your fox has healthy gut flora. If something has happened to disturb your fox's natural gut flora, such as a course of antibiotics, you may need to give them probiotics to help restore their digestive system's natural balance.

Bekki wrote:And what was the need for the tilapia if you're adding in omegas from the fish oil?

The tilapia is also a source of vitamin B12, which is not found in cod liver oil. Cod liver oil is also pure fat, while tilapia derives most of it's calories from protein. This diet is actually a skutch higher in fat than it should be (About 46% of it's calories are from fat, a bit higher than the maximum 44% recommended by the NRC), and adding more cod liver oil would unbalance it further.

Bekki wrote:Specifics on type of chicken and reason for doing a combo of turkey and chicken? Is it based on the amount of taurine? I've never fed turkey before but I am aware of the higher concentrations of taurine in dark meat.

Ground white meat chicken. Turkey contains more B12 than chicken does, and chicken has more potassium and vitamin E--the two balance each other out nicely. It would, however, be possible to feed this diet based on 4 lbs of turkey. (Feeding it based on chicken alone would run the risk of causing a B-12 deficiency)

Bekki wrote:Also do you do a nutritional supplement?

The diet as-is should be nutritionally complete with no further supplementation.

Bekki wrote:And grind bones or no bones?

No bones. The needed calcium in this diet comes from powdering the eggshells from the eggs used in it.

Bekki wrote:And the reason for the rolled oats? I was told neither feline or canine need carbohydrates in their diet it is the protien that they metabolize.

The rolled oats provide the needed copper and manganese in the diet.
It is true that felines and canines get most of their energy from protein, and metabolize protein into energy more efficiently than they do carbohydrates. However, this doesn't mean that they are incapable of making use of carbs as an energy source, and it certainly doesn't mean that they can't use the vitamins and minerals contained in carbohydrate food sources.
I've taken the differences in how energy is metabolized into consideration for the values in this diet. The NRC recommends a fox diet should contain no fewer than 12.4% of it's metabolized energy from carbohydrates.

******

As a side note, whenever possible, I tried to have the nutrient requirements of the diet exceed the minimums, and have them be fulfilled by a few different ingredients in the diet. This is because the exact nutritional composition of ingredients can vary from source to source, so the green beans that you buy might not be exactly the same as the ones I buy. That way, if one of your sources varies from the ones used to calculate the diet, it is less likely to make a huge impact on the nutritional content of the food.
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pat
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby pat » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:53 am

rags,

how do you powder the egg shells? I use to put them in a blender, but, I think they were too course no matter how long I blended it for. however, I put them in raw. mine get raw eggs as a treat. (I just give them the whole egg)
but, wanted to add the shell powder to mix in their food.

also, what is your opinion on "milk thistle"? I put a little in their food. (have it in liquid form)
I use to use it for my oldest raccoon that died of liver cancer. the milk thistle and sam-e extended his life longer than the vet thought he would live. just wondered if there would be any benefit for liver function?
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby Ragtatter » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:07 am

I pop them in the microwave for 10 seconds to dry them out and make them a bit more brittle, then I throw them in a cheap coffee grinder.

I've seen a lot of conflicting things on whether or not milk thistle actually helps, but I haven't seen anything that suggests that it does harm. If you like the results you're getting from it, by all means use it.
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Re: New Gizmo Diet

Postby pat » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:25 pm

rags,

I will try putting the shells in a microwave first. then try the blender?
when I give whole eggs to my foxes, they break open the shell. (I am always picking up egg shells :lol: )

don't know about the milk thistle. I always found good reviews on it. :shrug:
the vet had a script for my raccoon that had sam-e and milk thistle.
(pills were hard to give him) I found both in a liquid form.

thank you for info
Pat (Sybil and Benny's Mom)

http://sybilsden.com Sybils Den

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