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Heartland Blend

When to spay, food, treats, illnesses, grooming, parasites, odor, Teeth, other care as it pertains to health, etc.

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pat
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Re: Heartland Blend

Postby pat » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:43 am

TamanduaGirl wrote:Do your foxes get any veggies Pat? I'd recommend some sweet potato at least. Foxes do eat some vegetation in the wild and orange and yellow veggies like squashes and sweet potato were shown to lower cancer risk in dogs so I've always felt that's a good one to have in the rotation for foxes too. But yes they are nice ages already so over all doing well by them.

I did forget to mention about my foxes food. when I make the chicken for them, I grind up carrots and mix it in their food chicken.they have no choice but to eat it. do you think if I grind up the sweet potatoes too and mix with their chicken would be OK?
is it better cooked or raw?

long time ago, I did try some veggies and fruits as separate and they would not eat it.

thank you again mary for so much great info.
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Re: Heartland Blend

Postby pat » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:51 am

Ash wrote:I will try out the sweet potatoes and then let you all know how it turns out. I'm sure my foxes will love them. Fable had some blueberries the other day from a visitor, and he loved them. I was surprised since when I offered him other similar fruits in the past he didn't even eat them. But he loved those blueberries!

Pat, you can always call Dave and ask him if he could ship you some and just see what the cost is. :) I'm not saying it's perfect on its own, but from the ingredients and my experience with it for so many years, I think it's definitely up there.


are you going to cook the sweet potatoes? they are hard to cut when raw, mostly removing the skin, unless you going to keep the skin on?
when i get a chance, I will call Dave and ask him. however, my foxes get a little grain free dog food and seem to do Ok with it.
when Mary explained it is mostly for fur farm foxes, then maybe I don't need it :shrug:

I tried different food with my foxes, and they just seem set on the chicken. they never eat the fruits. guess foxes (like people) have their own tastes. :shrug:
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Re: Heartland Blend

Postby H20 Sl » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:14 am

I give Bo sweet potato from time to time, but he just eats the whole thing raw XD so.. I cut some "disk?" slices and he seems to like that a lot. i kept the skin on and everything, it was like a treat for him. Also fed him a lot of berries as a kit, he LOVES them,, I kept it in moderation though, there very sugary :).

Pat, they don't even like the sugary stuff like apples and raspberries? I would think they would be overjoyed..
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Re: Heartland Blend

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:12 pm

pat wrote:I did forget to mention about my foxes food. when I make the chicken for them, I grind up carrots and mix it in their food chicken.they have no choice but to eat it. do you think if I grind up the sweet potatoes too and mix with their chicken would be OK?
is it better cooked or raw?

long time ago, I did try some veggies and fruits as separate and they would not eat it.

thank you again mary for so much great info.


That's good then and I know some vegetation is in most dog foods too. Most red fox seem to love carrots for some reason but they would probably eat it with sweet potato cooked in. I know you're doing something right since they made it to older ages without health problems. I used to make dog food by pressure cooking chicken with some veggies like sweet potato and squash and they ate it since the meat flavor gets into everything when cooked together. Though they picker and more spoiled as they got older and I got lazier and grew to favor raw meat more but cooking the veggies with some meat can really help with getting veggies down if they don't like them.

H20 Sl wrote:I give Bo sweet potato from time to time, but he just eats the whole thing raw XD so.. I cut some "disk?" slices and he seems to like that a lot. i kept the skin on and everything, it was like a treat for him. Also fed him a lot of berries as a kit, he LOVES them,, I kept it in moderation though, there very sugary :).


Surprised to hear he likes the sweet potato raw. Though now that you mentioned that I know you can find dried sweet potato as dog chews. I guess that's fine long as not swallowing huge chunks so it's good you slice it now. A bit paranoid but then I am the person who's dog got a blockage from eating a whole dehydrated mushroom not sure where the heck she got that and she hated mushrooms, lol. Blackberries are a good berry since they are lower in sugar than others and have a lot of health benefits. Our local gray fox makes it's den in a blackberry bramble.

And since I had to reply to answer Pat's questions I'll post this I found.

According to "Nutrient Requirements of Mink and Foxes" red foxes can convert beta-carotene into retinol but at a lower efficiency than humans/rats. Beta-carotene comes from plant matter. The fact their body has develop the process to extract retinol from beta-carotene a plant derived substance proves they are designed to eat some plant matter and do intake nutrients from it, at least in red foxes who were in the study in the book. By contrast cats and ferrets can not process beta-carotene and turn it into retinol because their bodies are not designed for eating and processing plant matter, only animal matter. They must get all their retinol from animal matter like liver.

Which is good to know since we are talking about higher beta-carotene foods like carrots and squashes and the like.
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Re: Heartland Blend

Postby pat » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:29 pm

mary,

thank you for further info. I can never learn enough.

didn't know what beta-carotene was till you described a few examples.

on the sweet potatoes, wonder if I could dehydrate some? I have a dehydrator.
however, you mentioned about your dog got sick from dehydrated mushrooms, wonder if it was because it was a mushroom or it was dehydrated?

sometimes I dehydrate chicken for my dogs. (haven't for awhile, can't never get the time to do it) icon-sad

I use a pressure cooker most of the time. it cooks fast, but, seems to take so long to warm up. I would think the pressure cooker holds all the vitamins and such in? I like to make big batches at a time, but, lately haven't had time, so I get a couple packs of chicken thighs.
when I make the big batches, it takes hours to do it. but worth it when it is all done. I bag, tag and freeze.
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Re: Heartland Blend

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:58 pm

It was because the mushroom was dehydrated. For whatever reason she found and swallowed whole a dehydrated mushroom. As it went through her system it slowly rehydrated and that made it grow but was still hard and caused a blockage. Thankfully it passed with some medical help. Was a shock to find a mushroom on her pad when she passed it. Was expecting a piece of a chew or something.

Beaker loves dehydrated chicken too.

Well cooking things can degrade some of the nutrients but it doesn't destroy them totally. Like cooked chicken has less taurine than raw but it still has a lot in it. Freezing also degrades it but not as much as cooking.

chicken light meat has 180 in it when raw and boiled chicken light meat has 150. However liver degrades more when cooked maybe because it's so much softer. Raw beef liver 688-192, baked 141
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmb/labs/ ... spitze.pdf

Other nutrients most effected by heat are vitamin c which does not seem to be needed by red fox though, and the b vitamins. There is less in cooked but there is still a decent amount. Here's a comparison chart http://www.beyondveg.com/tu-j-l/raw-coo ... d-2f.shtml
Some others can be lost if you boil and toss out the water as some leaches out into the water but over all cooking doesn't make a huge difference but it does make some, biggest is with the taurine though. Raw is better since coking does degrade the nutrients some. However some things like beta-carotene and lycopene become more available and easier to absorb if you cook the food it's in first since it makes it softer and easier to digest.

That's why cooked vs raw is still pretty debated in pet food circles but if you do cook, cooking it as little as possible is a plus.
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Re: Heartland Blend

Postby pat » Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:35 pm

mary,
where did your dog find the dehydrated mushroom? outside?

I just got done making chicken for my little darlings. I only cook it till most of the pink is gone. since I had 3 large packs of chicken thighs,
I put some in my pressure cooker, some I boiled and some in the oven. (just want to get it all done as soon as I could)
I did add the sweet potatoes to the chicken mix.. I have their dishes ready to feed them, so I will see how that goes.
I make chicken thighs, debone it, then give them the bone raw.

they use to get chicken gizzards everyday, but, now I can't find anywhere that has a decent price. G.E wants 1.85lb :roll: that cost more than the chicken thighs. I was hoping to go to ohio this year, I know I can find the gizzards there. just didn't make it there yet. icon-sad

glad you reminded me of the beef liver, I use to give that to my foxes and dogs raw. I think G.E has it. I will have to check

thank you for the article, I did read through it, just printed it out too. the charts were hard to read sideways :lol:
I will look at the second link a little later. appreciate your effort and info.

gotta go feed everyone now, so I will let you know how the foxes and raccoons did with their new food mix.

meant to ask you, what kind of pressure cooker do you have? I have a junk one, a t-fal. it is horrible. so I really don't recommend that one.
I will get another one, but, will make sure I get a better one.

thank you again for your great info.
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