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Help, stomach worms :(

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H20 Sl
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Help, stomach worms :(

Postby H20 Sl » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:20 pm

Bo threw up bile, blood specks and worms. What type of medication and dosage would I give him to deworm for stomach worms? Im kinda freaking out ;
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:25 pm

Panacur the dog dose for his weight.
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby H20 Sl » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:37 pm

Would quad dewormer worl as well?
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:44 pm

Personally I wouldn't as it's three chemicals at once.
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby H20 Sl » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:51 pm

Alright, thank you so much. Got it and ill just let him sleep on it tonight. Hes defiently gonna feel sick :(
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby H20 Sl » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:52 pm

How can I avoid this again, was it food? Toys? Im power washing his enclosure and throwing away blankets
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:13 pm

It's most likely round worms but could be hookworms as well. Hookworms can be contracted through the soil. Round worms from poop or wild animals like if a mouse got in his cage and ate it or bird or even earthworms and even insects all can be infected and so infect the fox if eaten or exposed to the poop. Hookworms can even get into the body through the skin of he feet. Hookworms seem to be the most common for my anteaters to get for this reason, I think.

You can test the poop anually or bi-anually, then treat as needed and/or you can use a preventative like revolution that helps prevent the infection. The plus side of revolution is it prevents fleas, some ticks, mites and heart worm as well as helps with the worms. It's not perfectly effective with all worms though so an annual test might still be a good idea.

I personally use De(diatomaceous earth) in the food to help prevent intestinal worms but will be using revolution for the fennec for fleas and worms because fleas are hard to deal with here and Frontline as not been working so well with the dog. The anteaters don't get fleas though so just reply on the DE for them. Will be getting them a poop check soon though to be sure it's working.

Tapeworms tend to come from ingesting fleas and would require a different treatment but you can treat with the panacur then test the feces for other worms and see if that is needed.
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby H20 Sl » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:46 am

Yeah, they were roundworms from comparison pictures. I know that my old vet gave him Revolution. That goes on there neck right? Or maybe that was a shot.. I'm also worried about hookworms because of the dirt. I'm almost done with his perminant outdoor enclosure, 10 by 20 welded steel. He's been staying in his 10 by 10 chainlink cage on the patio, and his new cage has grass so i'm a bit worried. Revolution should protect him from anything in the grass right?. We have alot of deer here, and when i got deer meat, I would give Bo the hooves, but that might of not been a good idea anymore. Where would i get revoluion? at the vet?
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby Juska » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:43 am

I'm not sure DE has any internal application benefits. Correct me if I'm wrong but once it hits moisture, I think it becomes useless in killing parasites because it's the sharp microscopic edges of the diatoms that kills them, I'm pretty sure.
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:12 pm

Yeah Revolution goes on the neck and is still only available from a vet or by prescription. It should protect against most internal parasites but you could periodically test his feces to be sure.

For wild game you can freeze it for a week to kill parasites but the freezer has to be -4F and the internal temp reach that for 7 days so keep it a bit longer than 7 days. Then you can thaw it and give it to them.

DE doesn't stop being sharp because it's wet. It needs to be melted to not be sharp(the pool stuff instead of food grade).
http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/diato ... earth.html
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby Juska » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:25 pm

TamanduaGirl wrote:DE doesn't stop being sharp because it's wet.

From my personal experiences with DE, I've read and learned that the pest has to physically walk or come into contact with DE in order to be affected by it.

Their official website says for animals
"Diatomaceous earth (DE) is an excellent feed additive for your animals. Ranchers and pet owners alike have many stories of the benefits of adding DE to animal feed. DE can promote digestive health and shinier, fuller coats."
No proof of this is given, just anecdotes. They can't say it does promote digestive health and shinier, fuller coats because they can't prove it does. They also tell you to wear gloves, a respirator and eye protection when applying it, so I don't know where people got the idea to eat it...

In direct response to using it as a dewormer: https://www.diatomaceousearth.com/faq/p ... -deworming
"How often should I feed it to my pet for deworming?
In order to ensure the quality of our products and information, we are committed to meeting all FDA and EPA regulations. Because of this commitment, we are unable to provide an answer to this question without damaging our good standing with either the FDA or the EPA."

From Q&A: Diatomaceous earth as a dewormer?
Quotes by Martin Nielsen, DVM, Ph.D, DipEVPC

"In the meantime, some people are turning to feed supplement-type products for horses. I have seen numerous garlic products, mineral supplements, homeopathic medicine, herbal and plant extracts all purported to work as dewormers. Because these are marketed as feed supplements rather than medicine, they need to prove only that they are safe---they do not have to show that they actually work. And, in fact, very few of them offer supporting data documenting any antiparasitic effect. When parasitologists have tested some of these products, they have rarely found convincing results.

DE is one such example. A naturally occurring soft, talc-like powder, DE consists of the fossilized remains of diatoms, single-celled phytoplankton with hard cell walls made of silica. DE has many industrial and medical applications---as an abrasive agent or for filtration, for example. Products that contain DE are used against bedbugs, fleas, cockroaches, ticks and many other pest species; they are generally sprinkled on surfaces, including animals’ skin, where the insects will come into contact with DE.

A number of people strongly believe that DE also has an antiparasitic effect when administered orally. However, I know of several studies that have evaluated the effects of DE on intestinal worms. Unfortunately, none of these have found that DE has any impact on internal parasites.

My qualified opinion is that physical damage to the parasites is unlikely to occur within the intestine of the horse. The worms and their larvae are very small, often too small to be seen with the naked eye. Infective larvae are very hardy and survive the grinding teeth as well as the stomach acids before reaching the intestine. By the time an oral dose of DE reaches the gut, it will be so diluted in the ingesta that the chances of individual particles encountering a parasite would be very small.

If the sharp particles really were present in numbers sufficient to cut the parasites, one would also expect them to cause lesions in the mucosal membranes of the horse. Furthermore, all horses ingest soil and sand, which also can have sharp edges, but we don’t see any reduction of parasite loads in response. All in all, there are no sound biological reasons to expect DE to have an antiparasitic effect---and this is supported by research."


Study from 2009 on goats: http://science.org.ge/old/3-1/Bernard.pdf
"The results of this study coincide with previous experiments involving
DE which confirmed no significant reductions of
fecal egg counts in sheep [8]. Despite the promoted use
of DE as an effective anthelmintic [6,8], the evidence
presented in this study does not support DE as an effective
alternative de-worming drench for goats."
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby TamanduaGirl » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:33 pm

It's not well studied but it works for tons of critters.

The study you link mentions other studies where it did show to work and that goats digestive systems are much different than many other mammals. And the study fed 1-5 grams to 40 pound goats vrs a tsp which is about 3 grams to a one pound kitten. That's a huge difference in dosing. For large ruminants like goats, cows etc. It's supposed to be at least 1% of the food given to prevent worms and they were trying to get rid of ones already there so 2% is better. 5g would almost be 1% if they were only feeding a pound a day but that's unlikely. As the average goat eat3 around 3 pounds a day I think.

When we take in feral rescue kittens that have freeways of fleas running around their tiny tummies, we put DE in their litter boxes AND I feed the DE internally 1 heaping tsps. daily for tiny 1 to 2# kittens as we KNOW they will have tapeworms. Immediately thereafter and for about 2 weeks, they emit 30 to 40 tiny tape segments on the back of their hind end fur. Little by little, there are fewer and fewer tape segments seen, their pot bellies are gone, and their stools are normal.

IF we tried to bathe these feral rescues, they would KILL us and likely never come near a human again. It is our goal to adopt them out, so bathing is not an option. Most people don't want feral cats or kittens, most want friendly, social, healthy ones and the DE really helps us accomplish this painlessly.

We feed whole rabbits we buy from rabbitries that sell to the supermarket butchers to all our canines and felines. Rabbits are natural carriers of tapeworms. Before we began using DE in 1997, I would occassionally see tapes in the canines stools. I did the "messy" Juliette de Bairacli Levy worming - fasting 3 days prior to the full moon - castor oil and antiparasitic herbs and foods. It took care of the tapes, but was a HUGE mess to clean up the diarrhea. Since using DE regularly the past 8 years in everyone's food here, I have never seen a tape segment in anyones stool. :-)

DE does need to be fed daily in adequate amounts - at least 30 to 45 days for tape worms and 90 days for lung worms.


I mix it into their food mix and they never test positive for worms unless they have gone off their food already for other health reasons and so stopped getting the DE. I use it as preventative like that though and do treat with wormers if worms are found, like Ikigai arriving with worms, we wormed him. Due to fleas being bad here he'll be on revolution instead though.

As for the idea to eat it, it is even mixed into grains and cereals for human consumption to keep pests out but at a very low percentage. That's why it's food grade, it's used in food, not feed grade, only used in animal feed.

People warn about DE being inhaled because of silica causing cancer due to sticking in the lungs, but that's crystalline silica. Studies on DE and miners of DE who inhaled DE showed no such risks. Silica dust yes, DE dust no. Doesn't hurt to be cautious though any dust inhaled is an irritant and when exposed to 40+ hours a week of constant high levels of DE dust in the air for months on end then Guinea pigs were prone to pneumonia but that's highly different than powdering your dog now and then or your chickens rolling in some DE. Those that lived nearly a year were killed and their lungs examined and they were surprisingly healthy just filled with dust from the constant high exposure.

They cover a bunch of studies here where it did work but their citations area really poor https://www.google.com/patents/US3539685
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Re: Help, stomach worms :(

Postby Juska » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:45 pm

I didn't like the irritation I had in my eyes and breathing it in despite using a mask when applying it, so I'll keep to my opinion and research that it's not to be ingested. Until they approve it as a medication and not a supplement or industrial tool, due to lack of evidence that it does anything when taken internally.
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