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Post here for food and snack ideas

When to spay, food, treats, illnesses, grooming, parasites, odor, Teeth, other care as it pertains to health, etc.

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the_unstable
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby the_unstable » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:33 pm

Elina wrote:Hamburger is not a good idea weather it actually be ham or beef as pork is no good for foxes and beef is harder for them to digest


I thought Ragtatter's diet included hamburger meat? http://www.thepetfox.net/2010/08/fox-fo ... -diet.html "Ground chuck". I don't know much about meat, though as I don't actually eat it myself.

The pictures of Taiga eating the red pepper are soooo cute :D
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Alynn
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby Alynn » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:07 pm

the_unstable wrote:
Elina wrote:Hamburger is not a good idea weather it actually be ham or beef as pork is no good for foxes and beef is harder for them to digest


I thought Ragtatter's diet included hamburger meat? http://www.thepetfox.net/2010/08/fox-fo ... -diet.html "Ground chuck". I don't know much about meat, though as I don't actually eat it myself.



That's what I was wondering too.
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Ragtatter
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby Ragtatter » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:56 pm

There are two diets on my blog. One contains beef, one does not.

The diet that I feed Gizmo on a daily basis contains beef as a main ingredient. Reds do alright on beef, as they can digest it much more readily than the smaller species:
http://www.thepetfox.net/2010/08/fox-fo ... -diet.html

The other diet I have, the "recovery" diet, is what I fed Gizmo after he gained a lot of weight when I was no longer permitted to walk him. It's lower-calorie than the other diet without losing any bulk, and is still nutritionally complete. I designed it for red foxes who had had their normal activity curtailed due to surgery or something similar, or red foxes that need to lose weight. This is also a preferable diet for smaller foxes who do not digest beef well. The primary meat sources in it are chicken and turkey:
http://www.thepetfox.net/2010/08/fox-fo ... -diet.html

I have a third diet that I've designed, but I haven't posted it yet as I haven't gotten an opportunity to test it to see how Gizmo does on it. It's based on a more "natural" diet, and includes whole mice and rats (please note that the nutritional values for it were calculated from frozen feeders, as that's what I will be feeding Gizmo).

Right now, I can't test the diet, as I don't think my landlord would be too happy with me giving him whole prey while he's housebound. But once we move and he's got an outdoor enclosure again, I'll be testing the new mixture to see how he does on it. It'll probably be a year or so before I have it tested and ready to release.
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby Alynn » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:30 am

So if I were to switch my arctic onto one of these diets, would it be better if she were on the recovery one instead of the maintenance?
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:53 am

I would think arctics would do fine with beef. They often clean up after polar bears. Seal is a very red meat like beef and lots of fat if the bears don't eat it all. They also catch small game though so maybe a mix of the two.
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby the_unstable » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:51 am

Minced clams...that sounds challenging...never even seen clams in stores for sale.
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Ragtatter
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby Ragtatter » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:41 pm

Arctics should be fine on beef, for the reasons Hyze mentioned.

If all else fails, check the canned food section for clams. Canned foods aren't ideal, but overall the clams make up a small portion of the diet, so I wouldn't think it'd hurt.
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby Elina » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:06 pm

Sapphire has the recovery diet. With 9 foxes you guys can guess how much of it I make every week :icon-wink: .
I tried the maintenance diet on her and though I gave it to her for a number of weeks she did not stop having diarrhea. Nothing wrong with the diet but she was not digesting it properly.

Something to consider when choosing between the diets is how fast Arctics pack on the pounds. Apparently it's as food is so scarce where they are from so they take more from it or so I was told by the people who have the arctic fox centre in Iceland. Sapphire was really active when Logan was here but she still maintained her weight and she never ate his food and nor did I change her diet.
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:23 pm

That's odd. Were you actually using ground chuck or commercially prepared ground beef? The only thing I could think is the fat content of ground beef. There really is not much difference between meats. There are basically just white/light and red/dark meats. Sal is a very red rich meat.
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:14 pm

Como Park Zoo & Conservatory
Fun Fact of the Day: Como's Arctic fox’s diet mainly consists of rabbit, chicken, beef, pork and horse meat. For enrichment they are also fed apples, insects, dry dog food, and a variety of other fruits and vegetables. Now, who's hungry?!

Study on feeding arctic fox But it really is comparing kibble to raw and showing kibble isn't digested well.
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/abmvz/v62n4/26.pdf

Thiamin deficiancy and the fact fish in the diet can lower thiamin
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/.../p ... 9-0034.pdf

Although (beef(tallow is a very saturated fat source it is fairly efficiently digested in the blue fox.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 8809438003

Not much of relevance except that they feed a diet that includes beef, horse and poultry at fur farms.
http://vetzoo.lva.lt/data/vols/2005/30/pdf/lorek.pdf

Just kind of wondering if it's just you(the beef you are using or something). I've never heard of any foxes having such trouble with beef before.
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby Elina » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:44 pm

I was using what the butcher in the village near us said was ground chuck. We don't use that name here so he looked it up on the net and gave us whatever it's called here.
It may just be Sapphire but I know none of my smaller foxes can digest it well either hence they have the recovery diet and why I changed her to that and now she has solid stools.
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:28 pm

Yeah no reason to use it if you are having problems.
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby disgruntled » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:08 am

Pooks diet consists of raw rabbit, often with the skin on, raw chicken wings, chicken thighs, stewing steak or frying steak, raw bones for chewing on and playing with, scrambled eggs done in the microwave, raw eggs and the odd tin of cat or dog food if we are short of meat. He also likes cat biscuits but only as a treat. He does not like bananas and plays and chews on whole apples, I'm not sure if he eats much!
Slave to the menagerie and loving it...
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby Ragtatter » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:02 pm

Gizmo occasionally gets whole apples. He generally plays with them all afternoon, then eats them once he gets bored of throwing them around.
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Re: Post here for food and snack ideas

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue May 22, 2012 2:39 pm

Well, since this thread got brought up in another thread I thought I'd mention I've seen chuck roast around here now and boy does that have a lot of fat in it. If feeding beef I would look for leaner cuts or use extra lean ground beef or cut the fat out of the chuck before grinding.

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